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Would any of you like to chime in here?

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by Jack Kruse, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    "who cares what psychiatrists write on walls..." ;)
  2. Croak

    Croak New Member

    "You have been at your council, and I have been at mine. Now, be assured that the counsel of my Lord will fulfill itself and prevail, and that yours will fail." -Jeanne d'Arc


    "I think I understand what you wish to know, and I will tell it to you willingly." -
    Jeanne d'Arc
  3. hazyjane

    hazyjane New Member

    Or, Jack could just go nail his 99 Theses to their doors, LOL.
  4. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    My favorite t-shirt proposal on this forum is the one just on the LR Rx thread: "If you don't know optimal, you don't know Jack!"
  5. JoeBranca

    JoeBranca Silver

    95! interesting comparison ; )

  6. This. So here is this guy who has an actual practice where he helps people. Hey, in addition to that he offers his time to countless questions (no matter how remedial) that come up. He manages to find the time to try and teach anyone ready about all of this "stuff". . .oh wait, for nothing, not even a tax write off for charity! AND during all this he hastily types thing up to just get them out to try and spread the word to those who want it. His personality is such he kind of just spews it out and hopes the ready person picks up the info. . . SO WHAT. If you are not wanting to read through and come up with an actual argument on why something would not work, then why the vitriol. If you are capable of disputing and "disproving", go for it. I'd love to see it. Does some times less than accurate hyperbole come out of Jack, welllll yup. It's a baby/bathwater situation.

    So far, I've seen a case of an actual former fat ass correct and maintain himself. Oh wait, he's used his method for family members, too. AND I hear in in practice - proof to come in book.

    SO, when the qualified scientists show me how their methods and tweaks have helped former fat asses lose that kind of weight and keep it off, I'll listen to them. So far Mark Sisson seems to have people he's genuinely helped, so I listened to him. For me it didn't get me past my lifetime of derangement, so I kept looking.

    The best thing I ever did was quit taking advice on health from those who've not been there.

    If someone can make a cogent argument on why something Jack is suggesting won't work, then I don't think Jack would mind. I think he genuinely tried to disprove. Is he 100% correct on the science and why's? I have NFI, I forgot to finish the multiple-discipline PHD's required to understand it all. I'm ok with errors on the details, if the actions are a working for people.

    For gods sake it's annoying enough waiting to find out about Factor X, if I also had to wait while he did peer reviewed studies and hired technical writers to proof read anything - It would be years from now before we were hearing about this at all. I'll take it NOW with flaws, Thank You.

    I have a very hard time making mistakes, but recognize, if one isn't making a LOT of mistakes, they are not making much progress either. I am willing to give a little cold a try, and find out if it is a mistake for moi.
  7. LinD

    LinD New Member

    Perfect! I would wear that.
  8. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver


    "Who is Jack Kruse?"
  9. David

    David Silver

    Well said, Cavemam!
  10. hazyjane

    hazyjane New Member

    Whoops! 95, yes. My mother has a divinity doctorate ;)
  11. Tizawee

    Tizawee New Member

    Well said, Cavemam. Whole-heartedly concur.

    I have been too busy doing other things to pay much attention to the "Jack Kruse Is Clueless" club. What I'm reading here about the goings-on makes me think of the boy in "The Emperor's New Clothes." It's never easy to be the voice of change, even when you know you're right. If there were no voices of change in our past, Earth would still be flat and at the center of the universe.

    In response to his "Critics are dreamers who got scared by life..." FB post, I posted the following on Dr. K's wall & thought it would be appropriate for this thread: "Dear Enemies, Haters & Doubters - I have so much more for you to be mad at. Please be patient."


    PS: Put me down for a "You Don't Know Jack" t-shirt.
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    glad you did.
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Start a Tee Shirt forum.......put all your ideas there......and we will pick the best four to make......somebody ask the marketing monkeys to make this happen now.......and show them my post. They listen to you all more than me.
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    You will love the interview I just did with www.fatburningman.com then........should be out this week once the edit is done.
  15. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Here here Caveman - well put!!
  16. Adriana

    Adriana New Member

    How about

    "Got telomeres?"
  17. AKMan

    AKMan New Member

    Back to the topic of the Free the Animal blog piece. There was an interesting exchange that probably got lost on everyone because of the strange threading on that blog, but Ray Cronise, you know the NASA guy, chimed in. I will cut and paste the entire conversation so you don't have to hunt. I think Ray seems like the real-deal kinda guy and I hope he does well. His version of CT is a lot easier to take than Jack's! Before you bash him for being vegan, I think his vegan-ism is like Dr. K's MRSA-injectionism, just done for N=1, not dogma. Here it is:

    John // Apr 4, 2012 at 15:24 wrote:

    Awesome. I would often go back and forth on my opinion of Jack Kruse while reading some of his posts, from “This guy is a genius!†to “What the fuck is he talking about? Is he just making shit up and throwing some fancy words around?†Sometimes, I would have those some reactions in the same paragraph. Hell, maybe the same sentence.

    But I am certainly interested in the Cold Termogenesis stuff. I have Wim Hoff’s “Becoming the Iceman†and was really into Ray Cronise’s adventures in using cold temperatures to help with fat loss. He had instant credibility to me as thermodynamic engineer at NASA. Unfortunately, he lost me when he started promoting a vegan diet on his blog.

    But I think the point is still valid. Temperature could be as important to body composition (and maybe overall health) as diet and exercise. It’s amusing to think of all the nutrition experts that have quoted the first law of thermodynamics, and then completely overlook heat, which is what thermodynamics is all about.

    Reply Ray Cronise // Apr 6, 2012 at 06:58

    Sorry to have sent you astray. Aristotle said, “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.â€

    I think I have been quite clear to state that I am not a vegan, but have been eating a vegan diet. There actually is a pretty sound reason for the self-experiment I am doing. I’m being scientifically pragmatic, not ideological – on either side. There are some very interesting things that happen biologically during caloric restriction/nutrient density.

    What I am surprised about is that both sides – meat eaters and plant munchers get wrapped around the axel on ideology. I don’t really care one way or the other. I’ve eaten meat sparingly as part of a very well thought out experiment. It’s results have been extremely postive and consistent. We’re omnivores, but there are consequences of caloric density – meat or no meat.

    Perhaps the most important take home is to continue challenge status quo – popular or not.

    When we were trying commercialize private space flight in the 90s, one of the biggest obstacles was my employer, NASA. I left after 15 years. I’m glad we went against popular wisdom, because 20 years later companies I started have sent 7 to space station (one twice) and over 15,000 into weightlessness on our parabolic flights (gozerog.com). The most INCREDIBLE three passengers [insert bias]: – my three kids at 8, 10, and 12 got to experience what I had worked years to achieve 20 years earlier “in the system.†Most importantly the X-Prize launched a huge race for space and now Elon Musk, the paypal guy, is the best hope for those same people still at NASA that haven’t built a new launch vehicle in decades… Steve jobs talks about connecting the dots looking backwards, I think there is wisdom here.

    What’s do vegans and astronauts have to do with cold stress and diet? It’s a simple lesson. It’s about challenging our core beliefs and trying to ease into what is true. I know now for sure now that the “protein, carbohydrate, and fat†fuel myth is bunk. I’m certain that “food†is more important. I believe that there is a downside to excessive consumed “fuel†even when it does not contribute significantly to body weight.

    As for mild cold stress, I continue to gather and analyze data. Wim Hof and I have made some great strides. I hope to bring it all forward in time. Like Richard (the little I have read) I would rather be right than popular, but I’m certain I only learn when wrong. In the mean time, there is just as much fluff on the paleo side as the vegan. I’m not a middle man kind of guy – I want the truth. Sometimes we have to challenge the “best thing going†and not “vote for the lessor of two evils.†That may require stretching the box, not getting out of it.

    I now know a fundamental truth about food – macronutrients and micronutrients and I am grateful to have had TIm Ferriss’ help in popularizing some old concepts and rejuvenating the investigation. Jack and I talk too as he will tell you and there is plenty of work to do ahead. What’s interesting is sometimes disagreements are more like rectangle/square debates: all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. It often can lead us to conclusive affirmation, only to find we don’t have it exactly correct.

    I invite you to give it a little more time and rest assured I am not some sort of plant (pun intended) for the vegan ideology. I do have respect for many scientist on that side of the argument, but I am sometimes gored there, because I don’t share the ideology. We’re learning at an exponential rate (google my Zero-G biz partner, peter diamandis and abundance and watch his TEDtalk).

    I will quote your last two sentences, because in them is wisdom:

    †Temperature could be as important to body composition (and maybe overall health) as diet and exercise. It’s amusing to think of all the nutrition experts that have quoted the first law of thermodynamics, and then completely overlook heat, which is what thermodynamics is all about.â€

    we completely agree.


    Reply Richard Nikoley // Apr 6, 2012 at 08:33


    Thanks for stopping by.

    “I’m certain that “food†is more important.â€


    “macronutrients and micronutrientsâ€

    These two pasts posts might interest you, the first compares the micronutrient density of liver to fruits and the second live and salmon to bread:



  18. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    That's it, I'm hiring AKMan as my research assistant.
  19. ColdBren

    ColdBren New Member

    How did I miss this thread? I was the lucky target of the C word....I did push buttons on purpose, its hard not to with his personality type...and mine. He just seems like an angry guy that has figured some good things out about health....nothing compelling at all. This site is a treasure chest of health info and I will gladly hang out here as much as possible.
  20. shah78

    shah78 Gold

    Mazel tov! on being the "lucky target." That's pretty funny that you only found out now.

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