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Would any of you like to chime in here?

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by Jack Kruse, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. hazyjane

    hazyjane New Member

    I went back to look and that's a bit misleading if you read the whole back and forth on his facebook page. He seems to have been bating Kamal... however, he made no comments whatsoever on Richard's blog where the paleo cage fight is going on, LOL.

    He does like controversy and doesn't deny it. He can be rude. I'm not a fan of rudeness, myself (I stopped reading Dr. Harris a long time ago because of his own MD god-complex rudeness) but Jack has a heart. I've seen him help too many people to discount his information.

    I see people who haven't truly read his work (including the comment sections where we usually have to make him clarify his vague points) building a lot of arguments based on total misconceptions. It can be frustrating to understand him- communication in writing is not his forte by a long shot.

    I understand why he's a controversial figure, but some of the controversy is made up and based on non-issues and straw-man arguments. I don't see the Paleosphere reacting to Dr. Ray Peat and his fervent fans the same way as they guzzle their coke, orange juice, ice cream and skim milk with sugar - likely because he's reclusive and doesn't blog, but many of his ideas are certainly worthy of critique.

    The fact is that a lot of people do not seem interested in dissecting (or understanding) Dr. Kruse's actual theories, but rather acting like high school kids.

    You'll see people here defending him because he's helped them in profound ways that none of the other writers or docs have. I hope that's worth something in your consideration:)
  2. Croak

    Croak New Member


    And yes, he's grass fed. :)
  3. Croak

    Croak New Member

    But for those that like to follow along from home here's a handy flowchart:

  4. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I am continually amazed that Dr. K. has time for all of this. Over the last number of years I have been lucky enough to have some personal friends that are wonderful Docs. They struggle to balance their lives. They are totally committed to their families and their patients and their community. Never enough hours in the day and always putting themselves out there for whoever needs help. I bow to them
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have had swollen ankles for 20 + years and since taking CT showers and not eating any potatoes, (biggest offender for swollen ankles it seems) strictly keto-paleo, my ankles have no swelling what so ever. I woke up four days ago and amazlingly they are a bit wrinkly from the fact there is NO swelling whatsoever. Short of amazing for someone that felt I would not be able to walk one day because of the pain. I have to say it is both CT and keto-paleo because I have eaten keto paleo before and never completely got rid of ankle swelling. Both CT and no grains have done this for me -in my opinion.

    By the way, I hated reading all the negative there. I have a hard comprehending much of what you write, but I don't blame you since I have had some brain damage because of the life style I chose for years. I also had a concussion that was not treated properly in my late teens. Let me mentioin, I have also been depressed since I can recall abotu 6 years old. With all that I feel I am getting this and if it weren't for your blog I would not have the hope I do today about much recovery in the future. I actually day dream for the first time in my life that I will once again enjoy life and be healthy.

    I just hate how some people seem to live for the hate.
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I baited Kamal because he has no scruples. He loves to the stir the pot. Me and Richard knew this would happen and I even called who would join in.........and I was a prophet. Kamal even left out my entire quote to make it more inflammatory........

    As for Deans.......I love it. a paleo MD who uses this stuff on herself but not on her patients by her own admission. She said at paleo fx that she believes in moderation. Too bad evolution does not........If you can't practice what you preach you can't help the world. So you stick to paper reviews and let patients get sicker at your professions hand. That is what I call ironic and not authentic. Harris is a carpet bomber who no longer blogs or takes comments.......he needs to re engage and get some new ideas........he is being taken out by creative destruction and it kills him. Get back in the fight Maverick!
  7. eva

    eva New Member

    i`m also extremely dissappointed with Deans and McEwen... i used to read both their blogs and i will continue with Deans because the psychology is interested but Melissa Mcewen. i mean wow, i have no words. she is calling Jack out on not being educated enough in evolutionary biology and biochem and genetics, but what are her credentials then... in her comments on this post we are discussing she makes some very surprising mistakes taking into account how highly she has lately written about her own knowledge in the abovementioned fields. i get a very unpleasant besserwisser feeling from her. and comparing herself to Denise Minger. i mean - firs go and get yourself a brilliant brain like hers. just being a woman of certain age does not a Minger make.
  8. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Well, I imagine Dr. Harris will now give us another blog post. His were always so well researched and considered; it will be interesting if he comes up with a good objection to CT or the Leptin Reset.

  9. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Actually, I would welcome any well-researched and considered objections to CT and the Leptin Reset. If there is some reason I should stop, I'd like to know. But since I've already experienced some surprisingly nice benefits from CT, objections to Dr. Kruse's writing style, tone, or to his flow of logic pertaining to evolution... just won't convince me.

    I've taken some labs before I started, and I'll be very interested to see what changes they'll show in the future.
  10. David

    David Silver

    I am not surprised by the vitriol directed at the ideas and methods proposed by Dr. Kruse. I have long been aware that anything or anyone with actual knowledge that challenges any concept and idea that is essentially based on faith and not on deep understanding of underlying principles must be attacked by any means possible. Think Galileo or Copernicus. Could it be that underlying many of the very hostile blog posts is a nagging suspicion that many things the authors have accepted as articles of faith have no real basis in science or, for that matter, reality?

    “Dogma killsâ€￾, as pointed-out above by Dr. Kruse.

    Time will tell, I imagine. In the meantime, I’ll keep attempting to achieve Optimal Health. :)

    I don’t feel obligated to address any of the criticism, I agree with Robb Wolf when addressing a question following Denise Minger’s talk on how to speak to a vegan regarding the Paleo Diet, which went something like: “if they won’t listen, {expletive withheld} them."
  11. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    Ok...just read through 1/2 the comments on this post, (Which btw I think Richard did an excellent job laying out DrK's work, as well as the opposition in the paleo-sphere!) CAN I JUST SAY... wrangling US Gov't baffones in Congress to agree on a budget would be easier - than trying to get the different paleo-factions to agree that there might be something good in what Dr K is doing... Of course I'd like to offer my skills as a facilitator to get these guys together and come to an agreement on what's good/bad/ugly in the paleo-sphere w/o drawing an ounce of blood... but hey polarization is what sells in our society today... If I don't like your pov - well I'm gonna bash it b/c I think your wrong/nuts/crazy....even if you have helped others....you can choose to be closed minded, or you can open your mind to new possibilities and step outside your comfort zone....

    I choose to step outside my comfort zone... how about you?
  12. villjamur_stevenson

    villjamur_stevenson New Member

    results are what matter. All the other stuff that tries to explain the results - who cares? try CT in a safe manner and see what it does.

    That should be the real message here. Done properly - it doesn't drain your wallet, it is safe, and honestly it is quite fun! Kind of like a Kruse polar bear club!
  13. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    Oh my, that is hilarious ... doesn't make the method alright, but the intent is quite humorous.
  14. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    True, but (somewhat) in their defense is the fact that most of science is faith-based. Faith doesn't imply a god, but is anything that you take without proving it yourself because you find the source reliable. We take the moon landing on faith. We (unless we are scientists in these specific disciplines who have specifically undertaken to prove these points) take the heliocentric solar system on faith, and Hilbert spaces, and negative numbers, and dark matter, and neutrinos, and the quadratic formula and distance of the sun and relativity and quantum mechanics and electrons and evolution and even dinosaurs on faith.

    The question comes down to, do we take them based on what we *know* to be true, and common sense, and gut sense, and how do we respond when dogma is challenged by new claimants to the title "fact"?
  15. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    I just spit out my coffee laughing at this MamaG!!! I've always said there are only two groups who excel at comparing who's bigger/better/smarter etc - Fighter Pilots and Doctors. but when it comes down too it... Doctors always loose that fight, unless they're a flight surgeon...
  16. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    I think you guys might be misunderstanding the name calling as negatives. I think they were giving each other promotions and elevating their status above what we all perceive it as now. If I call my husband a dipshit, he is very grateful for the promotion. He knows I love him so much!
  17. colleencoble

    colleencoble New Member

    I went to bed and there was more fun. LOL but I'm not going back over to look at it. I don't want my cortisol to rise. :) And besides, who CARES what they think or say? Let them stay sick.
  18. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Maroon is what I wrote.....not moron. Kurt is not a moron.......he is just scared of outside the box thinking. Deans is afraid of her collgues at harvard. She practices paleo on herself and does not use it in practice......how ironic is that. No one seems to have a problem with that. Also ironic both come from specialties that never deal with MRSA or surgery.......except from an outside medical perspective. My team who operated on me today is reading this all laughing.......They think what I did was awfully cool because of all the people we are now able to help with this info.......and ultimately that is all that matters. My job is to help limit pain and improve comfort.......I guess I just do not do that in the paleosphere.......they are just showing their dogma for the world to see and honestly I think Richard real purpose of this all was to make a blog post to allow people to see themselves in their mirror..........and it has worked. Their true colors are shinning through. Action speak louder than words.
  19. Vicster

    Vicster New Member

    This is all very entertaining and I've enjoyed following it, but it comes down to the old adage of actions and results speak louder than words. We need not waste time trying to talk them over to our side or even waste time giving credence to their opinions, we need to just keep following what works for us (for me it's Leptin rx, gut, ct etc) and when they see the results and the game start to change they will come around. Or maybe they won't and they'll be warm adapted, muscle bound, short telemered MAROONS!
  20. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    +100! I finally read through the whole dog pile... there were some vitriolic statements going back and forth... I have to say... the Buckaroo Banzai reference had me laughing really hard!

    I also have to say - I'm disappointed by the religion bashing - While I've disavowed pretty much all forms of religious stuff, I am offended that pple would seriously bash on others beliefs. That's just wrong. God is personal and not something we should criticize others for. My spiritual are just that mine. as are yours. And they do not represent anyone else's beliefs. Granted religion has been twisted by the failings of man - but that doesn't mean all others wallow in that same pit. Respect is essential in any discussion; and if you can't leave your own personal hang ups out of the discussion don't comment.

    IMO, Collen your courage and your belief make you a wonderful human - those who disparage you and you're belief should take a look in the mirror critically and ask themselves if what they present is a true representation of their humanity.... every one deserves respect - even those that refuse to adhere to it, you gave that to them... but they did not return in it... What your reflect in the mirror is what you receive... Your humanity and respect towards others is something to be emulated...

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