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Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Christine_L, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. MITpowered26

    MITpowered26 New Member

  2. I'm going to try @kris90 's protocol about CT'ing alot in fall and then using the air during winter. Last year I did both tub CT and air CT and felt pretty good.
    kris90 likes this.
  3. Saichi

    Saichi New Member

    I've now done 1 hour SG in my bikini briefs near solar noon in 35 deg weather three days in a row. It ain't CT but sure does feel great to get UV level 2 during the winter! Don't need to buy a greenhouse or anything, just put a blanket down on the grass!

    I'm hoping when it gets down to 20 deg or lower it might actually feel like CT?
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
    Alex97232 and Christine_L like this.
  4. Nice job @Saichi. It does feel really cold but if you protect your feet and hands its pretty tolerable!
  5. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    So does everyone else do cold thermogenesis in winter by either ice tubs or stripping in outside cold?

    And then they go back inside a cozy warm house with normal temperatures... hmm.

    Or do some of you keep your indoor living temperature constantly much colder than average (I believe for most of population that is 68-70 degrees F) day and night?

    Imagine sleeping naked on a bed without covers at 50 degrees F. I have heard it can be done comfortably once you are adapted to it.

    For best effect I suspect you would need to alternate cold indoors with heated environment so body does not get too cold-adapted. Your heated workplace would probably do that.
  6. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    I suspect it can be done, but having tried a more moderate variation, and now doing the opposite, its off my list of hacks, because of the links of thermoregulation to sleep. :)

    Apart from a couple of trips to Fuerteventura, I went through last winter cold dark and boring, with no heating on, and sleeping nude with minimal (summer)bedclothes. As now, it was inclined bed, a window open, and feet on yoga grounding mat, going outside to the earth, 10 -12 hours total darkness.

    As I'm not getting to Fuerteventura for 2 x 2 weeks this winter, I'm digging deeper in regards to my sleep. After reading an interesting paper, this year I'm leaving the heating off but "nesting" at night, (the colder the ambient temperature the more I will "nest"). I'm checking I'm covering the "sleep permissive" behavioural, homeostatic and autonomic inputs from figure 3, NREM sleep pic from the paper.
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2019.00336/full The temperature dependence of sleep.

    I'm falling asleep much faster… and I'm coping with the lack of UV, and the thought of not getting my 2 winter breaks much better than I thought I would.:cool:
  7. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    Sleeping in cold with 'nesting behavior' (according to your cited paper I assume that includes warm clothing, pillows, and bedspreads) sounds agreeable to me. The true Spartans among us would sleep without any clothing or covering. That is beyond the ability of most of us mortals.

    I have read intriguing accounts of ancestral human behavior in colder climates, including use of minimal clothing. Early Germanic tribes apparently preferred what amounted to loin cloths despite the chill (and bathed in chilly streams and rivers). Conversely, they abhorred summer heat and often even fought in battle (from Roman accounts) naked.

    Our plan to use minimal indoor heat, just above outdoor ambient temperatures, likely wouldn't fly with a spouse or family onboard.Imagine the others shivering in their parkas while you move around nonchalantly in your underwear ...
  8. drezy

    drezy New Member

    I am grateful that we've embraced this all in my family. My wife and I are having a great time tuning our life together little by little.

    Here is the difference in energy bill (note the winter months).

  9. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    Way to go Drezy-- although 50-55 degrees F January weather would be considered balmy for the central plains where EU is known to inhabit. Almost swimsuit weather, LOL. We are assuming also that you aren't using non-electric heating equipment to supplement your electric heat.

    Still, nice work. You can improve even more by cutting your summer energy expenditure by giving the old A/C a rest. Experiencing weather extremes, including summer heat (heat shock proteins, etc) is a part of an ideal optimal lifestyle. Although if you have really high humidity I don't blame you if you cheat a little.
  10. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    The paper's connection to the UK Dementia Research Institute made me think of my maternal grandmother. She lived in a 3 storey plus basement house, with one small fire in the living room - a grit your teeth and get it over with overnight stay. A week in winter was torture. You sat so close to the fire your front roasted, while your back felt the cold and a draft. She caught me once getting changed for bed under the bed clothes because it was sooooo cold, and told me to stop being such a baby. She wore summer dresses indoors year round. :rolleyes: Whilst she lived there, in her year round summer clothes, she worked well into her seventies, no signs of dementia despite smoking, regular drinking, and having a crap diet. It was my grandfather's health than meant them moving nearer to my mother, into a retirement scenario with a zoo animal heating set up. In a low quantum yield latitude, I can see how that might have been detrimental to her mitochondria. Summer battery mode, with low quantum yield instead of winter battery mode and cold.

    I still sleep naked, but the colder the ambient temperature at night, the more nesting material I'll use. Fortunately, both my DH and I come from families who wouldn't think of heating a bedroom - seeing your breath or having ice on the inside of the windows in the morning wasn't unusual. An extra blanket if cold, a hot water bottle if you were lucky, too hot and stick a leg or an arm out of the covers, or throw them off. So something I disagree with in the paper is the idea that the optimal ambient room temperature for sleep is approx 19-21C. I'd need the heating on at night year round to get that. :eek:
    Alex97232 and ElectricUniverse like this.
  11. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    I think your maternal grandma was not unusual, only par for the course back in those good old days, in both rural and urban areas. Winter heating was scant and our hardy forebears were able to face such conditions like champs. Of course, people were hardier and more resilient in those days, as proved by the fact that their offspring survived and thrived.

    I remember hearing of stories how in winter people heated stones on the fireplace/stove and when bedtime came they hurried with heated stones to their freezing cold beds. This gave them a little warmth for a little while. If you placed a glass of water on the bed stand it would be frozen solid by morning.

    Which leads me to my original premise that moderns are way too coddled and soft for their own good, and won't survive well or for very long in a cold weather power-out emergency that lasts for more than a few days/week.

    The blackouts in California are just gentle foreplay for what is going to eventually transpire elsewhere. A bad solar flare or CME (grid down) is waiting in the wings, as is the climate icebox (a full-on grand solar minimum, likely less than a decade away).

    Good luck to all, and may you make preparations to not be caught off guard.
    Alex97232 and Sue-UK like this.
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

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  13. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    we get to the beach by 5:30am for sunrise and don't leave most days untill 10:30 or later.

    We make all our appointments for the afternoon. We do get laundry done and we cook some really great food - but we struggle with enuf time to get housework done.

    The only thing that matters is our mission to stay healthy.

    light, water and magnetism .....and seafood.

    and friends.......
    Jackie Beatty, Alex97232 and Inger like this.
  14. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    My brother flew in from overseas yesterday and in the afternoon called in. Because of the temperature change for him, I'd put the heating on in the living room. It got to 21C there versus 13C in other rooms. I found it much more difficult to thermoregulate going between rooms, than if the whole apartment was 13C.

    In the Herrera book The Human Photosynthesis, he talks about dark skinned subjects having less mitochondria than fair skinned subjects, which had me thinking about my summer tan fading as light levels drop. What light there is can penetrate more easily, but I'm working on the hypothesis that a too coddled and soft approach to winter could affect my regulatory mechanisms of increasing mitochondrial numbers (and therefore internal heat generation - and my internal melanin can use heat to split water.....:cool:).

    Squirrels are another dot ….. As light levels drop, squirrels who are scatter hoarders start their scatter hoarding, and apparently their brains grow in size over the winter, and shrink during the summer, the programme thought its because they need to remember where they've scatter hoarded, but I suspect there's more to it, such as hibernation.

    In humans there's the dot of the amount of brain shrinkage considered a "normal" part of aging, and the increased brain shrinkage in dementia patients. So in the squirrel its whether its lowering light-scattering behaviour-cold that triggers the changes to the brain size …. and increasing light-absence of scattering behaviour-warmth that stimulates their (non pathological) brain shrinkage in summer. Its made me wonder if by artificially tampering with thermoregulation beyond the need for survival, and adopting too coddled and soft behavioural inputs that are a mismatch to the light cycle, whether it could lead to accelerated brain shrinkage. :confused:
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  15. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    I like your questioning mind. To be curious and ask probing questions is to me a more telling sign of intelligence than academic rote style regurgitation of learned material.

    With regard to darker pigmented vs light pigmented individuals and mitochondrial endowment-- I recall hearing a Doug Wallace (a premier mitochondrial expert) talk about how, for example, black Africans evolved in their warm climes to have mitochondria that give quick bursts of energy to skeletal muscles. That is why blacks generally are very good and fast at sports like sprinting and short distance runs.

    Caucasians from northern climes have mitochondrial evolution that provides steady and effective body heating to adapt to colder environments. I'm pretty sure Dr Kruse has mentioned this before. Thanks, Neanderthals.

    It's debatable if our brains really shrivel up a bit in 'normal' aging. Pathological brain shrinkage and dysfunction (Alzheimer's, dementia, etc.) I suspect are more consequences of our modern lifestyle and environmental toxins (fluoride, aluminum, etc.)

    We now know that our brains do not necessarily lose irreplacable neurons willy nilly as we age. New discoveries in neuroplasticity indicate we can keep our brains and grow new neurons with right diet and stimuli. A brain is a terrible thing to waste.
    Alex97232, Sue-UK and Inger like this.
  16. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Oh man Sue, do not say my warm water bottle in bed causes my brain to shrink... :tears:
    I sleep naked too but I need it cozy in bed now as I have no partner to cuddle with....:cool:
    So I take a warm water bottle.. My bedroom is always unheated and I sleep with wide open window, so my head does get cold. Hope that prevents some of the possible brain shrinkage..?

    Wow, 13 degree C is quite cool indoor temps!! You are tough Sue!! I have around 18 degree in my living room and kitchen when I heat only in my bathroom, I have to heat there or my towels and shower will not get dry... and I do not want to have mold issues..
  17. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    In very cold weather I think a hot water bottle counts as "nesting" because it helps create the microclimate between the skin and the covers, so helps us drop off to sleep quicker. :) And it gradually cooling doesn't interfere all night, as an electric blanket left on would (apart from any nnemf). :)
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  18. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    I've not read the study itself, one year brain atrophy evident in healthy aging, but it was referenced in a book. It compared 0.55% brain atrophy in the entorhinal cortex in non demented controls (healthy aging?? :eek:) against 3.75% in AD. Differences in the hippocampus and both caudal and ventral frontal cortex were also significant.

    Herrera's book is interesting in that it suggests a step beyond the coupled versus uncoupled haplotype, in that the number of mitochondria also varies. It implied to me that transiently, within certain limits, I will have less mitochondria in the summer when I am tanned, (stimulus - sun, warmth, less need to generate internal heat), and that as light levels drop, and my tan fades, natural cold would be the stimulus to increase mitochondrial numbers to generate heat. Melanin inside the body can use heat to split water - winter battery, better resilience to cold. Grandma was onto something, I suspect her daily drinking of Guinness, a good source of silica, was also a protective factor against aluminium accumulation. :)
    Alex97232 likes this.
  19. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    As Sue might say, a love partner in bed with you is probably the best nesting material of all. Sharing mutual body warmth that at times might over boil. :)
    Alex97232, Sue-UK and drezy like this.
  20. drezy

    drezy New Member

    fug - an innocent night time hug that escalates away from innocent intentions (or toward less innocent ones).

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