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Why is red light after sunset still bad?

Discussion in 'Beginners Area' started by Ossa, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. Ossa

    Ossa New Member

    Say there was a bulb , lamp or computer screen that only emmited red light. What would be harmful about this? Since red light does not damage melatonin release how can it still harm your sleep? Does any visible light still affect other hormone cycles such as cortisol, adrenaline that could hurt sleep quality , onset?
     
  2. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    Red light would be better but the light level is important. We are meant to "see" dark. Red light WILL still reduce your melatonin substantially. Plus the activity on the computer game will transport you into day mode activating daytime type responses like arousal to fight. The easiest way to say it day is light and night is dark. Anything else is a compromise you pay for.
     
    CatherineRaye and Phosphene like this.
  3. Penny

    Penny New Member

    Any fake light is bad because it flickers - this causes aging/cell degradation/ubiquitination/loss of ATP (due to the increase in amino acids bonding together - each peptide bond costs 5 ATP ) - you can bypass this effect by using a battery - like if you have an RV that uses lights plugged into the battery, it will be DC current and it won't flicker - there were some great Patreon posts on this BTW:)

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/flicker-effect-light-jack-kruse/?published=t

    Also, there is melanopsin in every cell - if you hit it with blue light, it kills melatonin in that cell - this destroys autophagy (cellular repair) in that cell - so, even with blue blockers on, your face is still getting hit with a bunch of light - you can mitigate this by wearing a burka... :)

    You should also run iris - which mitigates the flicker:
    https://iristech.co/

    Always cover your neck because of thyroid damage also -
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
    Sajid Mahmood and Phosphene like this.
  4. Ossa

    Ossa New Member

    I d
    I dont think thats right, every study ive seen shows that red light has no effect on melatonin. Remember that melanopsin is a bluelight sensitive photoreceptor
     
  5. Jason Coates

    Jason Coates Losing the Shade.

  6. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    @Ossa
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/030439409290595X
    "The green light pulse (520 nm) given at 24.00 h suppressed the pineal and plasma melatonin to the day-time level for at least 2 h, while the red light (660 nm) pulse given at the same time of the day suppressed pineal melatonin only transiently and did not suppress the plasma melatonin at all. Both green and red lights given at 4.00 h suppressed the pineal and plasma melatonin to a similar extent. The results demonstrated that the suppression of melatonin by light depends on the wavelength of light and the circadian phase."
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07420520500521988?journalCode=icbi20
    "Results in hamsters show that 640 nm monochromatic light at 1.1×1017 photons/cm2 can acutely suppress pineal melatonin levels. In normal healthy humans, equal photon density exposures of 1.9×1018photons/cm2 at 460, 630, and 700 nm monochromatic light elicited a significant melatonin suppression at 460 nm and small reductions of plasma melatonin levels at 630 and 700 nm. These findings are discussed relative to the possible roles of classical visual photoreceptors and the recently discovered intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells for circadian phototransduction. "
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000689938491045X hamster ...

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0096532 Humans
    "Red light also elicited prolonged pupillary constriction, but did not suppress melatonin levels. These findings suggest that, for red light stimuli outside the range of sensitivity for melanopsin, cone photoreceptors can mediate circadian phase resetting of physiologic rhythms in some individuals. Our results also show that sensitivity thresholds differ across non-visual light responses, suggesting that cones may contribute differentially to circadian resetting, melatonin suppression, and the pupillary light reflex during exposure to continuous light."

    Not all red bulbs on sale are equal (nm ranges), light not directed at you but uplighted or downlighting at floor level is not the same as light from directly above your head and last but not least none of us are hamsters although we might be running on a hamster wheel daily.


    And then there is flicker.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    Ossa, JanSz, Phosphene and 1 other person like this.
  7. Kai-Robin

    Kai-Robin New Member

    red light speeds up and activates your mitochondria making it produce atp. When its night this is not suppose to happen, the mitochondria should slow down for regenration during sleep.
     
  8. Ossa

    Ossa New Member

    All great responses, learned a lot and turns out i was wrong, thank you everyone.
     
    Lahelada likes this.
  9. Kai-Robin

    Kai-Robin New Member

  10. Eric Waldron

    Eric Waldron New Member

    So then should we not use any red light after sunset inside even though there is red light up to hours after sunset?
     
    Ossa likes this.
  11. Ossa

    Ossa New Member

    A great question
     
  12. Antonis

    Antonis Free diving

    Maximum couple of hours after sunset but still depends on context.
     
    Eric Waldron likes this.
  13. Kai-Robin

    Kai-Robin New Member

    Dont use extra right before sleep i think.
    The earth keeps an temperature at 250-300 kelvin. Absolute zero is 0 kelvin. All this heat is infrared light.. This keeps you alive..
     
    Eric Waldron and Antonis like this.
  14. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    If there is light outside,open the window and let it in. ;) If you cannot see anymore then you are not meant to see anymore...
    And then there is modern life! Your red light is a compromise. Compared to sunset light it's is a tripod compared to a millipede. You get only a partial spectrum from a bulb.It is the correct colour but still an alien spectrum.

    Your red light also comes with doubtful manufacturing practices. Red tinted through glass is expensive. Your bulb is therefore sprayed from the inside or the outside. This coating will deteriorate with time and let more blue light through.
    Apart from that, light under 50 lux below eye level and not shining on you is best. All bulbs have flicker most of all LEDs.
     
  15. Eric Waldron

    Eric Waldron New Member

    Awesome! Thanks for putting things into perspective. That makes a lot more sense.
     
    Lahelada likes this.

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