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What breaks or slows cold adaptation

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by hellojtm, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    I'm looking for an official answer, if one exists. Here is the kind of info I'm looking for.

    I'm at stage X and I have food Y, this will set me back Z amount.


    1. I'm at the cold tub stage for 20 minutes every day, I am eating a ketogenic diet with no starch/fruit and I had 10oz of ice cream over the weekend at a wedding. This will set me back 3 days while my body forgets that I ate something sweet.

    2. I'm at the compression shirt stage, up to 40 minutes, I am eating a ketogenic diet but due to work I had to look at the computer for 3-4 hours after sunset 3 days in a row. This will set me back 3 days while my body forgets about the SCN and focuses on the cold receptor...

    That above examples are phony but point out the issue, in my opinion.


  2. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    Scenario time again

    3. I'm at the face dunking stage, skin temps of 49f and can stay under 25s at a time for a total of 5 minutes underwater. I am eating a ketogenic diet with no starch/fruit. I wear only shorts and a t-shirt independent of weather, a/c, etc... I took a ten minute hot shower 2 days ago. This will set me back 1 day.

    (?? I have no clue how much these things impact the adaptation period or the maintenance of adaptation).

    Another question, i know that there is the sweet sensor on the tongue that is important for the ancient pathway. Put a banana in that mouth and your brain wires for warm adaptation. But is it just the sweet taste? It seems that the diet is ketogenic too, the recommended one. Is that just an artifact of removing all the sweet things? I don't think so, you could be ketogenic while eating minimal sweets as long as your total glucose consumption is below your bodies threshold. So then, coming back around, what if I ate a non-ketogenic diet, but had nothing sweet to the taste, if I ate 150g of bland carbohydrates a day in the form of veggies and tubers. No sweet, will I remain adapted? Will I slow my adaptation?

    I'm hoping there is an official answer.


  3. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    Another fun confounder. Eggs. Seems like one of the perfect foods for the cold adaptation scenario. But in nature eggs would only be available during spring. Does that make them a suspect for breaking cold adaptation? Surely the ingestion of an egg would indicate to the body that it's hatching season and not the dead of winter. But the only thing I've seen from Jack is ketogenic + the sweet sensor and the fat sensor in the mouth.
  4. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    Thanks August. Let's keep bumping it until we get some feedback.
  5. JC2K

    JC2K New Member

    I don't think there's any studies on it. It's all such a different paradigm. In thinking about it though, we do know examples of people that are cold adapted without a keto diet. So it's not a roadblock. The main remaining question in my mind is, does it slow it down, and if so, how much?

    It would be one of the many things I'd want to test if I won the lottery though. Up there with testing out the cryo chambers to see how they affect cold adaption (take a set of non cold adapted people, one group torture with ice baths, the other torture with cryo chamber, and see who's best cold adapted after a couple weeks to a month).

  6. Love the wayyou think! Human torture is allowed now if its labeled reality tv.
  7. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    Speaking of breaking cold thermogenesis.... where is the finest swamp gas to be found? I really like the idea of a sulfur diet and hyper ventilation to make the blood alkaline, but how about a little swamp gas to boot? I don't really notice the smell to the point of distraction and I really enjoy sulfur in peoples well water. It seems to heal your skin. I know people put dirty motor oil and sulfur on dogs to cure the mange. Sounds like just where we came from. I'm thinking a stinky sound might be good also.
  8. Lyndra

    Lyndra Gold

    I'm pondering what cold adaptation would look like based on normal seasonal patterns. In the fall, the temperatures fall, fruits & veggies start to disappear, but tubers are still available if you know where to dig. As the season progresses, tubers disappear or the ground freezes and they are unavailable, and the cold intensifies. It makes sense to me to ease into CT in terms of both cold and diet. You'd naturally cut back carbs gradually in the fall as the temperatures drop. So, as you start doing CT, you can use warmer water and still eat some carbs to mimic the natural progress of fall, but as you adapt, you need to lower the water temperature and cut back on carbs so you are living in a true winter environment.

    Furthermore, the cutback in carbs would be non-linear. You might be no-carb for a while and then come upon a stash of tubers and eat them and leave ketosis temporarily. Same with cold - the temps go down, you start to adapt, then you have an Indian summer period where it is warm again before you get more cold weather. I think as long as you trend toward lower carbs and ketosis, you should be good as you are starting CT.
  9. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    Chocolate try Yellowstone.... there is an amazing hot/cold experience to be had at I think the 45th latitude marker, and it is sulfurous too!! A hot spring feeds into snow runoff, one of my favorite experiences of my life laying in that water and having no idea what temp it would be.... But let's stay on topic! This forum is awesome but thread drift has been out of control. Judging by or fearless leaders style there will be no moderation of this unless we remind ourselves.
  10. Jim

    Jim New Member

    Sounds like a perfect N=1 experiment.
  11. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    Thanks hellojtm, I was just thinking rotten eggs/sulfur. I do have a wandering mind. I have to edit with a spider web. And sulfur foods can make sulfur flatulence without the right probiotics. Snorting it seems to be the best. Sulfur well water will do you the same way, but a shower is nice. I think Yellowstone needs to happen. Yogi and BooBoo better leave the bacon alone.
  12. JC2K

    JC2K New Member

    Hrm, actually, that's not something I even thought about. Video taping it all. Great idea! Muahaha!

    Might be a lot of bleeping the first time you toss people in the cold water though.
  13. ealachan

    ealachan New Member

    I'm not a doctor or a super-smart biohacker like some of these folks, but it kind of seems to me like these would be impossible questions to answer because everyone's bodies work differently. If we were all androids who just needed our oil changed and our spark plugs replaced every 6 months, life would be a hell of a lot more straight-forward.
  14. I tried to pose a similar question by asking how a person knows if they are "in the ancient pathway" or not. If the biology between the two is so different there must be a marker for it (maybe someone can make their millions that way). Of course this is all very new so the answers I got were mostly "don't cheat if you want to be optimal" (I used my eating a few strawberries as an example).
  15. Destiny

    Destiny New Member

    You made me laugh really hard!
  16. ealachan

    ealachan New Member

    Sweeeeeet! :)
  17. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    Your strawberry post was part of the ignition for this post. I agree with people saying we're all different. On the other hand we're all the same too, otherwise we wouldn't believe that we can follow in Dr. K's footsteps in cold adapting.

    I'm thinking about summer coming up. I'm thinking about maintaining cold adaptation during the summer but I don't want to be on a ketogenic diet for a year because it seems nutrient deficient to do it for that duration. If someone wants to talk me out of all that, with logic and reason, I'll listen.

    So, yes, I'm looking for an official answer from Dr. K. He knows the pathway, he has the map, where lie the dragons?

  18. Well all we have at the moment that I've seen is a telomere test, which will only be a long term marker for some time. My results should be coming in any day now.

    I don't like the idea of an endless winter. I know Dr. K thinks it is optimal until aging and disease has been reversed, and he feels there are virtually none who's telomeres indicate relative health (which makes me question how length/age ranges were set).

    I don't really have any weight, pain, or symptomatic issues to deal with. Only an elevated CRP I have not been able to figure out, and long standing thyroid disease. I still don't know if I should be taking thyroid meds if I'm cold adapted, and if my labs become meaningless if my brain is taking control over from my thyroid. If I can't be convinced the cold takes care of the thyroid completely, I expect I'll "see a summer" this summer but maintain CT so it's not hard to get back into it.

    Maybe if we remove the oxygen from our homes all will become clear :)
  19. Coriander

    Coriander Silver

    He did explain that once, in blog comments somewhere I think. It's based on his experience of patients coming through his door, so none of them are going to be healthy to start with.
  20. hellojtm

    hellojtm New Member

    Interesting. All mismatches seem to drive epigenetic hunting, which would shorten telomeres and waste stem cells and mitochondria... So eating fruit in the summer and not doing CT would be ideal. However, if you wanted to do CT then you'd have to keep your body believing it was winter, so that means CT + dark exposure + little/no fructose.... I mean it makes sense but that's the problem with a lot of things, they make sense but aren't true :)


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