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Ways to deplete Deuterium

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by shiran, Oct 30, 2017.

  1. WalterNL

    WalterNL New Member

    @JanSz I'm wrong here about membranes not being natural, since both mammal and plant cells use membranes to filter water (including lowering deuterium levels). RO looks promising now, but I'm not sure if the type of membrane used to produce DDW is the same as used in the reverse osmosis process.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane#Membrane_processes_classifications
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319917330215
    What membrane material is used in RO?
     
    JanSz likes this.
  2. I've been trying to find info on how effective RO is for deleting deuterium in water. No sure if I understand it properly, but this link seems to suggest that RO makes no difference to H isotope fractionation of seawater or brackish water.
    "O, H, and Sr isotopes are not fractionated during the RO process."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18677997
     
    seanb4 likes this.
  3. I think the type of membrane material must be the critical factor...no idea what standard RO systems use.
     
  4. philip malone

    philip malone Silver

    Does anyone have info on deut ppm measured in a glacial water (like Icelandic)? I am getting Icelandic to try and I believe Cignature could test it if
    we don't have the info..... Glacial water can supposedly come in at 110-120 ppm.
     
    Brent Patrick likes this.
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    When you get the value of ppm for the water in question,
    get its complete price per liter, including all costs including delivery to your residence.
    Then,
    get the same thing for Qlarivia-25 mixed with sufficient amount of RO water to get the ppm of your water above.
    Compare the two.

    You will find that glacial, icelandic or similar are greatly overpriced.
    Also, that the ordinary RO have less deuterium.

    But they come with better press and fancy bottles.
    =======
     
  6. philip malone

    philip malone Silver

    The Icelandic I can get for $33.87 for 24 500ML bottles. Shipping is free as I am a Prime member anyway.....
     
  7. Penny

    Penny New Member

    Maybe this is why hot showers are a total fail and Jack says to drink your water cold -


    Temperature Dependence of Kinetic Isotope Effects for Enzymatic Carbon−Hydrogen Bond Cleavage

    Willem Siebrand* andZorka Smedarchina
    Steacie Institute for Molecular Sciences, National Research Council of Canada, Ottawa, K1A 0R6 Canada
    J. Phys. Chem. B, 2004, 108 (13), pp 4185–4195
    DOI: 10.1021/jp030575t
    Publication Date (Web): March 4, 2004
    Copyright © 2004 American Chemical Society
    Abstract
    An analysis is reported of the anomalously weak temperature dependence of large kinetic isotope effects (KIEs) observed for enzymes that catalyze carbon−hydrogen bond cleavage. After a critical examination of the experimental data, rate expressions for proton tunneling are used to derive a universal relationship between KIEs and their temperature dependence for a model in which the tunneling coordinate, represented by two crossing Morse potentials or a quartic double-minimum potential, is assisted by a harmonic promoting mode. Since the reactions involve electron transfer to a redox system as well as proton transfer from a CH to an OH bond, both adiabatic and nonadiabatic mechanisms are considered. Model calculations are reported, which show that the derived relationship is valid under a wide range of conditions and depends on a minimum number of model parameters, namely almost exclusively on the proton transfer distance and the tunneling-mode anharmonicity. The results are used to derive proton transfer distances and promoting-mode force constants from the available data on temperature-dependent isotope effects for several enzymatic reactions effecting CH cleavage, including the reactions of linoleic acid catalyzed by soybean lipoxygenase-1 (SLO1), of primary amines catalyzed by methylamine and aromatic amine dehydrogenase (MADH and AADH), and of a dicopper complex that models the active site of monooxygenases and lacks a protein environment. These distances are found to be shorter and the force constants to be larger than those implied by van der Waals radii, but with anharmonicities suitably adjusted, they resemble those encountered in systems with hydrogen bonding. It is proposed that the strong redox system, which is always present in these enzymes, acts so as to withdraw electron density from the C···H···O transfer system. This will tend to shrink the tunneling barrier to a size that allows effective passage of H but not necessarily of D, a condition that may lead to a large KIE. It will also increase the enzyme−substrate force constant, thus reducing the temperature dependence of the KIE. For the reaction catalyzed by SLO1, a transfer distance of 0.9−1.0 Å is found. Similar results are obtained for three artificial mutants from which it is concluded that parts of the protein located outside the reaction site have little influence on the proton transfer. For the reactions catalyzed by MADH and AADH, the corresponding values range from 0.5 to 1.0 Å; however, the values much below 1.0 Å may be unrealistic since they are based on data that show anomalies suggesting that an incomplete kinetic model was used in their derivation. The analysis also yields a transfer distance of about 0.9 Å for the dicopper complex, a value similar to that of SLO1, although no protein is present. Since results for three different systems cluster about the same transfer distance of 0.9−1.0 Å, it is concluded that the large KIEs and their weak temperature dependence are due to a redox-induced C···H···O hydrogen bond.
     
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Get minimum amount of Icelandic water.
    Send it out for testing. ($75)
    Post the results here.
    I will make calculations and compare it to Qlarivia.

    /
     
    philip malone likes this.
  9. karenr

    karenr Silver

    That would be great to know the deuterium content of Icelandic Glacial water, as I've been using that.. and will be starting on Preventa on Monday, and not sure yet which water to dilute it with.
    If the water for dilution is assumed to be over 140 ppm, and the Icelandic water is considerably less than that, I'm not sure how to figure the dilution ratio to get the recommended concentration of 105 ppm..
     
  10. philip malone

    philip malone Silver

    Ordered
     
  11. Scompy

    Scompy Gold

    You made me think about saunas and the possibility of sweating out deuterium. Similar to what the body may be attempting with an elevated fever...

    Does anyone else see some problems with the assumptions made in this experiment? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28010819
     
    drezy and seanb4 like this.
  12. philip malone

    philip malone Silver

    Ordorderedw
    Well inspeaking of deut depletion, i don't thnk we are concerned with water in thealimentary canal. It's water in the mito matrix and in amd between cells. To get at that would, I think mean severe dehydration. The idea with using depleted water is to dilute the deut further and further....
     
    jwhb77 likes this.
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Low mass diet is best. Mitochondriac lesson: The more MASSIVE a star the faster it dies....Let that SINK IN FOR A MOMENT BEFORE YOU GO FURTHER....the less MASSIVE a star the longer it lives. Why is MASS associated with death in star?????? You know stars most common element is hydrogen huh? You know the more MASSIVE isotope of hydrogen is deuterium right??? This means deuterium kills you faster than hydrogen when it is in food. Oysters have little deuterium and starch has a ton of it. Hydrogen in a sun is in its H+ state. So are mitochondria.........interesting coincidence or might there be a deep link you all missed? MASS is a bad thing to a living system. Mitochondrial matrix hates deuterium............and Stars hate deuterium too.........did you know that?
     
    Phosphene, Jenelle, Alex97232 and 5 others like this.
  14. drezy

    drezy New Member

    Throwing this in here Jan style [​IMG]
     
    Phosphene likes this.
  15. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Within 4-5 weeks we will know better.
    If the previous assumptions are right, RO is the way to go.
    I think the three big unopened boxes of VOSS some Pellegrino and Poland Spring in my garage will be good for my son's cats.

    I am talking based on this table.
    It would be a good idea if someone double checked it.

    upload_2018-1-12_9-26-54.png

    upload_2018-1-12_9-30-33.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    James Lech likes this.
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Qlarivia (0.5 liter bottle) is the cheapest DDW in town. @Jack Kruse likes it.
    Keep looking for other sources.
    Lets see the cash outlays for a year when drinking
    2bottles of Qlarivia every 1.5 days, mixed with other liquids.
    2bottles of Qlarivia every 1.0 days, mixed with other liquids.

    upload_2018-1-12_9-36-20.png
     
    James Lech and Brent Patrick like this.
  17. drezy

    drezy New Member

    If my property tax was shown to halt cancer it'd be price competitive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  18. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Oysters have little deuterium and starch has a ton of it.

    Not all oysters are equal.
    Time to test those that are available locally.

    Yes I see oysters on that picture.
    They might have been tested already.
    I also see
    chicken
    potatoes (lots of it)
    salt (white, the one you not suppose to eat)
    black pepper
    red beets
    cauliflower
    apples
    carrots

    ..
    upload_2018-1-12_10-2-43.png
     
  19. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Rent out your property.
    Use that $$ to buy Qlarivia for the four of you. Your Mom need double dose.

    Allow for additional tax on the profits from renting,
    and for charitable contributions for those less fortunate.
    ..
     
    Sheddie likes this.
  20. philip malone

    philip malone Silver

    I've seen in a couple places that glacial melt should come in at 110-120 ppm. That's better than RO (if true). OTOH, Iceland being in mid -ocean might be somewhat higher. Do we
    have names of any mid-continent glacial melt water??
     

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