1. Registering for the Forum

    We require a human profile pic upon registration on this forum.

    After registration is submitted, you will receive a confirmation email, which should contain a link to confirm your intent to register for the forum. At this point, you will not yet be registered on the forum.

    Our Support staff will manually approve your account within 24 hours, and you will get a notification. This is to prevent the many spam account signups which we receive on a daily basis.

    If you have any problems completing this registration, please email support@jackkruse.com and we will assist you.

Vitamin D levels are a proxy for redox Rx.........

Discussion in 'Redox Rx' started by Jack Kruse, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I do
    Fatty Acid Profile, Comprehensive (C8-C26), Serum
    Then
    look at spreadsheet.
    My seafood intake is minimal.
    I am not missing DHA.
    I have actually too much DHA and that suppresses my AA.

    Still on a green but could use more oleic acid----->>>bacon

    Welcome any analysis of my recent fatty acid status,
    specially practical suggestions for improvement.
    I pay $0.87 per pound of pork butt when I make a trip to Spanish area and about $2.50 at my local Costco.
    $0.87 per pound is better quality (for me) because comes with bones and joint.


    upload_2019-9-13_8-0-49.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  2. Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  3. Direct immune suppression. Exposure to both UVA and UVB radiation can have directimmunosuppressive effects through upregulation of cytokines (TNF-α and IL-10) and increased activityof T regulatory cells that remove self-reactive T cells. These mechanisms may help preventautoimmune diseases.

    Alpha melanocyt.e-stimulating hormone. Upon exposure to sunshine, melanocytes andkeratinocytes in the skin release α-MSH, which has been implicated in immunologic tolerance andsuppression of contact hypersensitivity. α-MSH also helps limit oxidative DNA damage resulting fromUVR and increases gene repair, thus reducing melanoma risk.

    Calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP). Released in response to both UVA and UVB exposure, this potent neuropeptide modulates a number of cytokines and is linked with impaired induction of immunity and the development of immunologic tolerance. Mast cells (which mediate hypersensitivity reactions) play acritical role in CGRP-mediated immune suppression. This could help explain sunlight’s efficacy in yreating skin disorders such as psoriasis.

    Neuropeptide substance P. Along with CGRP, this neuropeptide is released from sensory nerve fibersin the skin following UVR exposure. This results in increased lymphocyte proliferation and chemotaxis(chemically mediated movement) but may also produce local immune suppression.

    Endorphins. UVR increases blood levels of natural opiates called endorphins. Melanocytes in humanskin express a fully functioning endorphin receptor system, the cutaneous pigmentary system is an important stress-response element of the skin.

    https://www.academia.edu/39566332/B..._Human_Health?email_work_card=reading-history
     
  4. Vitamin D Signaling through Induction of Paneth Cell Defensins Maintains Gut Microbiota https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2016.00498/full The Initial Dysbiosis Exerted by High Fat Diet Was Exacerbated by Vitamin D Deficiency, Showing Overgrowth of Helicobacter hepaticus and Down-Regulation of Akkermansia muciniphila
     
  5. Skin Exposure to Narrow Band Ultraviolet (UVB) Light Modulates the Human Intestinal Microbiome https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2019.02410/full
    In this study we investigated whether repeated exposure of the skin to NB-UVB light would alter the gut microbiota composition of healthy female volunteers in a clinical pilot study. We found a significant effect on the microbiota composition after repeated exposures, specifically for subjects that were not taking vitamin D supplements and thus suffering vitamin D insufficiency prior to the study. Both the alpha and beta diversity of their microbiota improved in response to UVB light exposure. The differential abundance in the participants showed an enrichment in several genera from the Lachnospiraceae, Ruminococcus, and Clostridiaeae families after the UVB light exposures. The results from this study suggest that skin exposure to NB-UVB light can exert distinct regulatory effects on the intestinal microenvironment of humans, with potential health benefits.
    upload_2020-12-14_18-12-34.png
     
  6. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    John Schumacher and JanSz like this.
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    lack of pantothenic acid

    I am looking for a way of supplementing low B5 (that would make a difference on tests).
    So far none of the supplements that I was using made any difference.
    There was a girl, member here, I think her name is Debora
    she suggested a hair shampoo additive.
    It works.
    Does anybody know of a good B5 supplement?

    ///
    ..
     
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Sulfated D3 and cholesterol sulfate are the key anions in the blood that work with the deuterium optical switch. Sunlight is the cathode ray in this quantum dance. The photoelectric charge required for this reaction to take place likely comes from the solar power of the sun. That energy is transformed from light energy to mechanical energy which changes the hydrogen bonding network in water which enables the growth of the exclusion zone of water. As the EZ grows in blood plasma that in turn can transfer its energy back into RBCs, which supports the charging of RBCs that are suspended in it.
    Upon exposure of your skin to the sun, the skin synthesizes vitamin D3 sulfate from cholesterol (7 Deoxy chol), a form of vitamin D that, unlike unsulfated vitamin D3, is water-soluble. As a consequence, it can travel freely in the bloodstream rather than being packaged up inside LDL (the so-called "bad" cholesterol) for transport [Axelsona 1985]. That free sulfated cholesterol is far more important than biology realizes for the photonic repair of the arterial tree. Without it, nitric oxide levels fall and peripheral artery disease begins in humans.
     
  9. Michalis

    Michalis New Member

    So does this means that the water soluble might reach further? What happens with tissues like the meniscus that are without blood supply. Is there any way that it will perfuse in the synovial membrane? Are there any other mechanisms in play?
     
  10. I agree (free sulfated cholesterol is far more important) -> Whether the hormone "vitamin" D is made in our subcutaneous fat beneath our skin or as a by product of butyric acid from our gut microbiome stimulated by light through our Opsins.

    May we underscore - it is the sun's photons which changes the hydrogne bonds in water which gives rise to sulfated D3.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
  11. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    The microbiome. :)
    https://drgominak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Gominak-commensal-Gi-D.pdf

    Although Dr Gominak uses a B complex supplement, the idea seems to be to get the microbiome making the Bs again, so the supplement is dropped. If I were just to take B5, it would likely only feed one of the commensal foursome, and it could be one that used B5, rather than made it, so theoretically the B5 supplement could cause a deficiency over time, as body stores are used up.

    The other way I've been thinking about how to do it seems to be through diet, which may account for some of the choices of traditional diets in different parts of the world. For example as vitamin D levels drop naturally in the winter, this would reduce the level of B producing bacteria in the microbiome, but a non hibernating human could "tweak" the microbiome using traditional food choices. William Li's book Eat to Beat Disease, although the section on the microbiome is interesting, he doesn't mention vitamin D at all. If Dr Gominak's idea that its vitamin D via the bile that encourages the "good bacteria", (shit off a shingle) then - speculation :) - towards the poles if the diet contains local, seasonal produce (or even stored food such as the other scatter or larder store mammals) that influences the microbiome species, the signalling (from light?) from the microbiome to the liver (the solar organ), might be enough to spare vitamin D and the Bs used up from storage during winter. If the microbiome continues to supply the Bs, particularly pantothenic acid, to make acetylcholine, cortisol and melatonin, would that help maintain redox? I've been wondering if trying to function in winter as a summer mammal in terms of work, thinking, sex, etc with a "winter microbiome" may eventually leave us short of stored pantothenic acid, and/or deplete vitamin D. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
    John Schumacher and JanSz like this.
  12. We know the absorption and emission rate of light's spectrum is now beginning to be understood in the literature. The concept of photooxidation mechanisms induced by the light absorption is the beginning of the process. The second is the emission rate the molecule returns back to the system.

    For example:
    The light sensitivity of riboflavin is a result of its redox‐active aromatic isoalloxazine moiety, which leads to riboflavin functioning as a photosensitizer, wherein it catalyzes the oxidation of substrates as a consequence of absorption of UV light. Upon exposure to light, riboflavin is excited to a short‐lived singlet excited state (1Riboflavin*), which then readily undergoes intersystem crossing to the longer‐lived excited triplet state (3Riboflavin*) (9) (Figure 2b).

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/bit.26942
    upload_2020-12-16_7-34-3.png
    (a) Type I and Type II photooxidation mechanisms for riboflavin and subsequent mechanisms for substrate oxidation (modified from Cardoso et al. (2012)); (b) key forms of riboflavin in electronic excitation and redox processes.

    Dr Gominak uses a B complex supplementation, which a important bit part of her developing protocol; however, does she understand the absorption rate of these vitamins? https://drgominak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Gominak-commensal-Gi-D.pdf

    The question of @Jack Kruse maybe -> How does the photon absorption rate of pantothenic acid, which is less than UV detection at 254 to 280 nm, impact our gut? https://optimalklubs.com/qt-26-what-no-one-asked-me-after-my-vermont-2018-talk/

    Since we know UV-C is "self made" within our dermis (see @Jack Kruse Vermont 2018 lecture), the next question maybe -> How best can we turn-on our UV-C production?

    The presence of a molecule does not mean it will be activated in a way expected.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2020
  13. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    I think so, in that with her use of vitamin D and the Bs, she seems very aware that the absorption rate, metabolism, accumulation and excretion of any excess is very N=1. Its their specific action on the neurotransmitters and sleep that I've found most useful, but I think there's more to it than tweaking say a B5 supplement dose by 5mg ...

    For example in Jack's blog, Vitamin D, the sunshine of your life? https://jackkruse.com/the-sunshine-of-your-life/ he talks about studies in 2009 that showed that vitamin D decreases the risk of breast cancer in women when their levels were over 50 ng/ml. (There's also an interesting bit about the microbiome and UV and IR - i.e. the potential for the microbiome to be a source of photons).

    Then we have

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2946230/
    Stearate Preferentially Induces Apoptosis in Human Breast Cancer Cells

    If its a general mammalian thing that stearic acid is stored around the kidneys, then is it possible there's a link between the circadian rhythm of vasopressin, the rate of kidney conversion of 25 OH to 1.25 vitamin D, and stearic acid? Possible connection to the human equivalent of hibernation for a couple of hours every night? :confused:

    Its a speculation but I'm wondering if the circadian rhythm of vasopressin might affect excretion of excess Bs resulting from absorption of any or all of a supplement the body no longer needs, and eventually can't store. Getting up to pee in the night may either be wasting Bs, or ridding us of excess, dependent on context.

    As a general hypothesis, I think Dr Gominak is not using the B vitamin supplement for its absorption, but essentially as "food" for the commensal foursome in the microbiome, hence the low dose to improve neurotransmitter/sleep unless there's a clinical reason for a higher dose, such as outright sleep disorders. As the microbiome takes over the production of the Bs, with sufficient vitamin D, even a low dose may eventually become unnecessary. The actual absorption rate into the bloodstream would become more of an issue when the microbiome is producing B's normally, (and possibly body stores were replete, with good D levels). Although being water soluble its theorised they should be peed out, her clinical experience is that for pantothenic acid, anything above what the body needs or can store can cause problems usually related to deficiency, such as insomnia. But instead of dose tweaking, the body being able to regulate that itself in an "inner doctor" sort of way is probably a better way to go long term. For example a craving for nutritional yeast that goes on for days, then suddenly stops. Or making up white chocolate with 100g of cocoa butter daily for the stearic acid and scoffing the whole lot, to gradually the same 100g batch lasting several days. :)
     
    caroline and John Schumacher like this.
  14. @Sue-UK - I love your analytical mind !
    Reading your writing through the years, your posts are not just repeating "here's what it says"; but this is what you think about it. <- Bravo !

    Thank you for the article on stearate acid. One of the things missing from this article is an understanding of how stearate acid "seems" to the be mirror image of linoleic acid but just saturated. https://extension.okstate.edu/fact-sheets/lipid-glossary.html
    • Stearic acid: Trivial name for the saturated fatty acid octadecanoic acid (C18:0).
    • Linoleic acid: Trivial name for the polyunsaturated fatty acid (C18:2).
    This means stearic acid's biomass will process "better" than linoleic acid in our cells' interaction from the melanosomes, our mitochondria and with our endoplasmic reticulum and peroxisomes. https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?posts/292480

    We know oxidative damage is always an issue polyunsaturated fatty acids.​

    The study that is missing is one which shows stearic acid's effect on prostaglandins https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/fatty-acid-molecules-a-role-in-cell-14231940/

    I believe prostaglandins have been villainized by medicine. I see it differently https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?posts/293015

    Now the subject of -> The absorption and emission rate of light's spectrum - this is not the absorption rate of pantothenic acid into the bloodstream. It is the rate of activation to the molecule(s) by the light's spectrum.

    Now the subject of circadian rhythm, urination, vasopressin & prostaglandin excretion - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15118421/
    It seems to be the rhythm of glomerular and tubular function are managed by circulating hormones including include plasma renin, aldosterone, atrial natriuretic peptide, cortisol, and prostaglandin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138846/
    upload_2020-12-17_10-39-6.png
    pAVP, plasma arginine vasopressin; ADH, antidiuretic hormone; PRA/PA, plasma renin activity or plasma aldosterone; GFR, glomerular filtration rate; FENa%, fractional sodium excretion; UK/(UNa+K)%, fractional distal sodium-potassium exchange; PMC, pontine micturition center.

    I believe the principle mechanism of our circadian hormones is the electromagnetic spectrum of sun's light - morning, noon, sunset and most important darkness.

    Gaining an understanding of how these hormones are turned-on and turned-off may give us a tool for better controlling not just when we need to pee but how we could improve things like quality of sleep, energy during the day and most important -> cognitive function.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  15. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold


    https://drgominak.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Sleep-D-Brain-Health.pdf
    Sleep, Vitamin D, and the Microbiome - Implications for Brain Health

    I found this interesting about sleep, but its become more of a spring board to a thought experiment about how did early humans cope with a vitamin D winter, without D or B supplements .... I'm also reading it and trying to connect dots from the vitamin D the sunshine of your life? blog.

    I think its more than just circadian hormone rhythms... for example seasonal rhythms, which would also add temperature rhythms to the equation. Then there's mass ... Someone can go through the motions of getting the circadian cycle of the electromagnetic spectrum right, but if they are not replacing lost mass, or using stored mass, light can't control - or change - mass they haven't got. However much sun they get, however closely they follow the sun cycle, or their starting D level, periods of semi starvation are thought to affect sleep and increases the risk of the Hazda dying of intestinal infection. (Source Matthew Walker, book Why We sleep).

    In the book Eat to Beat Disease by William Li, in the anti angiogenesis section, he talks about traditionally raised Parma pigs fed the whey from parmigiano reggiano cheese as youngsters, then finished off with chestnuts ... and the Spanish Iberico pigs that are free range and then finished off with acorns ..

    "carved into wafer thin slices on demand, both hams are a source of omega 3 PUFAS. In fact 9 slices of prosciutto di Parma or jamon Iberico di bellota will give you the same amount of omega 3 PUFAs (14 g) as an 85 g serving of salmon."

    That had me wondering about squirrels .....particularly as the brains of scatter hoarding squirrels get bigger seasonally for winter, and then shrink to normal in spring. So if we live at a latitude that goes into a vitamin D winter, then what we eat, or our prey eats has added importance during that time. This article even links the ham to the microbiome ...

    https://lipidworld.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12944-020-01205-x
    A diet based on cured acorn-fed ham with oleic acid content promotes anti-inflammatory gut microbiota and prevents ulcerative colitis in an animal model
    (Does it being a nocturnal animal matter so much if thinking about a winter microbiome in humans ....?)

    Its interesting that humans grinding acorns and using them possibly year round, but at least during the winter probably came well before stored grain consumption ... Its possible that if we start off with good levels of D, we might use it up at a slower rate by what we then feed the microbiome during winter. By maintaining good 06/03 ratios, our solar panels might be in better condition when UVB next becomes available, which links to Jack's blog about the making of vitamin D on the skin is affected by protein deficiency, 06/03 ratios, etc. Also in Jack's blog it mentions we start storing when we go over 40 ng/ml of 25 (OH)D, and need it at 60ng/ml to see us through winter. Then there's the vitamin D binding protein angle ... without it we can't store vitamin D, and links to protein deficiency ... So eating enough protein during vitamin D season could make things like fasting not such a good idea ....

    Still down the rabbit hole ....:eek::D
     
    caroline, JanSz and John Schumacher like this.
  16. Billybats

    Billybats New Member

    Hey all,

    I use to be the vitamin queen. Seriously. I had major problems while taking them. Then I found Dr Kruse's site and dropped ALL supplements. Ever since I have improved immensely. The only plus taking them I found his site. I have thought about taking supplements like fish oil but actually afraid to. I have been thinking about light therapy but that is a form of a supplement as well. I really am thinking of the light therapy for winter months because it seems it would be more valuable and something easy to control with hopefully no side effects.

    Thank you for listening.
    Susan
     
    John Schumacher likes this.
  17. Dan2

    Dan2 New Member

    Billybats:
    "Hey all,

    I use to be the vitamin queen. Seriously. I had major problems while taking them. Then I found Dr Kruse's site and dropped ALL supplements. Ever since I have improved immensely. The only plus taking them I found his site. I have thought about taking supplements like fish oil but actually afraid to. I have been thinking about light therapy but that is a form of a supplement as well. I really am thinking of the light therapy for winter months because it seems it would be more valuable and something easy to control with hopefully no side effects.

    Thank you for listening.
    Susan"


    If you mean using supplemental UV, another option if your haplotype matches for it close enough is to do cold thermogenesis. Instead of supplementing some light wavelengths indoors that don't fit with the context of the season's light that you'll be in when you are outside, an alternative could be to supplement (really reduce a deficiency of? instead of supplementing extra of something) the lower temperatures that are outside.

    I've posted about indoor lights several times; maybe I should say that it might not be as good during winter as CT though. There would be a mismatch with light signals if you're waking up to the light intensity that's naturally outside at a high latitude in winter, then having strong UV during the day, and then having it get dark outside early (and using red lights indoors around that time). You could try to imitate a sunrise at lower latitude with indoor lights (and wake up at the time when that would be) but I don't know how well that'd work. So if you don't use indoor lights to imitate a lower latitude sunrise, then using strong UV later in the day would be like traveling thousands of miles every day you use the UV lights.

    But CT is more uncomfortable to get used to doing consistently than indoor supplemental UV light.

    @stanzi

    ___

    I don't know much of what's been posted about CT during winter's relation to seasonal UV changes and vitamin D. Anyone able to summarize it some?
     
    John Schumacher likes this.
  18. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    Hi Susan :)

    I too dropped all supplements when I found this site, but actually Jack isn't against D supplementation in all cases. What sparked my interest in rereading the old vitamin D blog was https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/sperti-or-oral-supplements.25372/. Two guys in the UK with 20 and 21 ng/ml of D in presumably November (thread started beginning of December). :eek: With the current Covid travel restrictions to get to the Canaries, if I knew my levels were that low I'd be more afraid to do nothing or wait it out until Spring. If someone's context was that they had not got out in the sun much in summer, but they had no reason to believe their skin couldn't make vitamin D, using a UV source has potential therapeutic value. But if I had got lots of sunshine in the summer and hadn't made enough to store, or I was using it up at a high rate, without knowing the why, and being able to do something about it, might make supplemental light less useful as a stand alone option. One possible reason might be 5G...

    "5G is going to ruin sulfation and nitrosylation of your skin, gut, and eye because it will affect surfaces first because of how these waves ruin the topology of these surfaces. It is a prediction I made about the engineered 5G RF portion of the wavefronts because of its pulse rate and polarization. "
    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.p...t-2019-gut-melanopsin-link.22961/#post-263542

    I never test anything, but I'm actually quite tempted to get my D levels checked .....:eek::D
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
    Nigel Clack likes this.
  19. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK Gold

    A potential hack as an uncoupled haplotype would be simulating cold with the UV available at altitude. Get the surfaces cold to get the mitochondrial pilot lights on ... carnot engines? external UV, and increased CO2 from very slow breathing ...? "Travelling" would involve a few thousand feet ... doable, home in time for tea ....:D
     
    Dan2 likes this.

Share This Page