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To nicotine, or to not nicotine....

Discussion in 'The Cave' started by KetoKatie, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. KetoKatie

    KetoKatie New Member

    I want to give 2 mg nicotine gum a try, esp because I was helped in my 20's by high doses of Wellbutrin and I have narcolepsy (N), aka nonfunctioning orexin neurons...in retrospect I think the Wellbutrin is what kept my N at bay enough to have some semblance of a career (for better or for worse depending on whether it would have been good to burn out earlier or when I did, after I had twins with special needs but am not working). Nicotine patches are a common stim for PWNs (people w narcolepsy), and some self medicate with cigarettes. Although I have been stim free for 2 years (was on Nugivil for 11 months til diet/lifestyle changes a la Jack took over what nuvigil could do for me), I need a boost, esp if I am supposed to pack up our place & move us (STILL nothing even worth looking at has come around but doing better about not stressing about it, overall).

    Side note: I am SOO looking forward to the boost I'll get from being able to ground and CT all the time in a real tub (trough) and get early morning sun easily, all of that. And move out of nnEMF hell and it's affect on me. I know things will really start to gel at that point. But I need to last and get to that point for that to happen.

    I got a virus in January I am not sure I fully got rid of. Because I am not in a great place physically, it took 8 weeks for acute symptoms to go away and 8 weeks for fatigue to mostly fade. So I afraid I am not well enough to try....

    Which leads me to the question behind this message: what contra-indications are there, and besides the obvious Epi-paleo, CTing and circadian, what else might be good to consider having in place ie neurotransmitters, etc? I don't know enough to even know where my blind spots are in this...

    But then again, if it's just a bad few hours, that's not the end of the world....

    My list of current and recent issues: N, POTS, Hashi's, PCOS, adrenal insufficiency that seems to be resolved, high blood pressure that seems to be resolved, 20 year history of depression & anxiety, which is all resolved for the last 3 years except when I get frustrated because of my health status...so any that comes around is short lived. I currently only take Armour. Magnesium. And probiotic...sometimes a whole food Vit C.)

    Never have even taken a drag off a cigarette, both because I wasn't cool in high school and because I am afraid of addiction, had a sense I would be instantly addicted. It's better now on the addiction front (other than disordered eating, I haven't had much) but those inclinations aren't all gone and probably never will be because of my genetics and my N.
    Cpt.Tired likes this.
  2. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Hi Katie! I cant really answer your question... but what I do have been thinking about regarding the nicotine gum use (I have been using them since I stopped smoking this year :eek: )... is this.

    It could be important to spit out the first "juice" after chewing a few times as that way you get rid of most of the xylitol/additives in the gum. The nicotine will be inside the gum anyways. I do that lately, I chew a few times, do not swallow and and then spit. Yeah... I know... a little TMI :oops: ;) but for the gut, especially if not optimal, less xylitol will be better....
    to chew gum kinda produces some air i guess that you will naturally swallow... maybe not so good for the gut either? IDK for sure... just a thought... so if you have a sensible gut nicotine pads might be better option? But they you cant for sure use the same way as the gum as they release nicotine way slower..... I have used pads too.
  3. KetoKatie

    KetoKatie New Member

    Thanks for the info, @Inger. I am giving it a go, though started my first one late morning today because I was too antsy to wait til tomorrow. And today is a much better day for me to feel cruddy than tomorrow if it's not good (though so far so good). Normally will do it soon after waking. I spit some of the beginning stuff like you suggested, but maybe not enough. It lasted a lot longer than I expected but it could also be that I am not a fan of spicy stuff so I'm sensitive to it/sense it being there longer than a smoker might?

    Hopefully I won't regret this down the road, like wearing on my adrenals or whatnot...but the more I analyzed what has helped me in the past and what I'm experiencing now and I can tell I need dopamine/catacholemine support, so hopefully this will help that.

    Good for you for quitting! I don't know that patches come in 2 mg? I just wanted to see how I felt so I'll start with the 2 mg gum, only cost me $7 for a small pack of 20 pieces, not a lot of investment at 1 per day.
    Cpt.Tired likes this.
  4. Josh

    Josh Gold

    If you are hardcore, you can get liquid nicotine on Amazon. I take it straight. Absorbs quickly in the mouth. Be very careful with dosing.
    Josh (Paleo Osteo) and Bill1 like this.
  5. nicld

    nicld Gold

    Interesting. I will have to read more on what context that nicotine is beneficial.
  6. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    for now I'm holding on the nicotine... working on P450 pathways...and tightening my circadian cycles.....
    KetoKatie and fitness@home like this.
  7. WereBear

    WereBear New Member

    You might consider high dose Niacin (also known as vitamin B3 or nicotinic acid). It might offer the effect you are seeking, and I find it an important part of my latest regimen.

    My husband was concerned that my illness struggles could be alleviated with some SSRIs, but I was extremely wary, because I felt that part of my problem was the Premarin that I took for over a year. It alleviated my tormenting menopause symptoms but I think it contributed to my hormone problems in the end. SSRIs have a slow ramp up and a tapered end game; so if it was making me worse instead of better it could really set me back.

    But my research led me to the work of Dr. Abram Hoffer, who treated POW survivors in Canada after WWII. He found high dose niacin did great things for PTSD and stress reduction, even schizophrenia and psychosis.

    So I tried it, with a Bcomplex every day and vitamin C with each dose, and it's been amazing stuff. Great sleep, better stress handling, appetite more in line with what Dr. Kruse says should happen (I skip dinner half the time now.)

    When I mentioned the diabetes risk with the SSRIs my doctor offered Welbutrin, but when I looked up the side effects it said it was contraindicated for eating disorders? And I was bulimic in my teens. (Just mentioned that because of your note about disordered eating.)
    KetoKatie, nonchalant and caroline like this.
  8. Bill1

    Bill1 New Member

    Thought I read something about nicotine for weight loss ? How does that work?
    Also, thought nicotine was mentioned to help off set nnEMF ?

  9. Josh

    Josh Gold

    I posted everything I found in the Quantum Health, Light, Water and Magnetism Group on Facebook in a thread.
    KetoKatie likes this.
  10. Cpt.Tired

    Cpt.Tired New Member

    Have you thought about trying a tyrosine/ 5HTP combo? I seemed to get pretty decent results from it, but only at quite high doses. I don't take that much anymore because the tyrosine aggravated my migraines.
    Having low dopamine really sucks! It can really create an addiction to stimulants.
    KetoKatie likes this.
  11. Bill1

    Bill1 New Member

    thanks - it might be a bit tricky to find the exact posting. Any help in narrowing it down? thanks
  12. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Bill1 likes this.
  13. Bill1

    Bill1 New Member

    oh no wonder why I'm having trouble - it's a closed group.
  14. Josh

    Josh Gold

    KetoKatie and Bill1 like this.
  15. WereBear

    WereBear New Member

    I did!
    KetoKatie likes this.
  16. KetoKatie

    KetoKatie New Member

    I definitely want to try that. I have a friend who takes 9 grams of tyrosine, so I hear ya on the high doses. My one problem is just figuring out which supps to try in what order and how long to leave between introducing new supps/major changes. I ended up with major cognitive decline (that thankfully reversed itself within 48 hours after stopping the supps in question, ALA {I think, it was a while ago and have it on my notes to self} and acetyl l carnitine...) A month just seems to drag things out, but might be required for things that have more ramping time like tyrosine and 5 HTP.
  17. KetoKatie

    KetoKatie New Member

    I did Wellbutrin for 6-7 years at high doses. The Leptin Rx did wonders for my disordered eating, and my time in an eating disorder program (outpatient therapy I sought out after having twin *girls* that I didn't want to pass on my food issues to) also helped. But Bs in general would be a good idea....esp Niacin.... Thanks for the suggestions.
  18. KetoKatie

    KetoKatie New Member

    I need to read more about these pathways (and catch up on the Ubi system, my printer isn't working right now)....
  19. KetoKatie

    KetoKatie New Member

    My circadian has been good the last two weeks, after recommitting to being diligent (had been staying up too late a few nights...interesting that when my motivation tanks, I stay up...I think it's motivation that goes first, but not always). My circadian rhythm doesn't get too far off these days, I just stay up later than I should sometimes, but otherwise good--after a day or two of that I pay and have to get back on track fast... Love the early morning sun that helps me wake up early these days.

    Summer makes this easier to stay on rhythm, but being off of screens is the harder part for me to work on, even with blueblockers and f.lux turned WAY down, I need to be off earlier to make sure I can stick to it as a habit when the sun sets much earlier than 9:30 pm...
    Cpt.Tired likes this.
  20. KetoKatie

    KetoKatie New Member

    So I tried 2 days, took 4 off and tried 1 more, of 1 piece of 2 mg gum ea day. The first 2, I thought it took the edge off my tiredness for most of day. I *think* I might have been able to push myself a little harder than normal, but it was also my highest energy days in my cycle. Basically, I didn't have the urge to nap residing in the back of my brain the way I do most days (due to this virus and narcolepsy...it's not overwhelming most days, just there). It went away for about 4 hours also the 3rd day I tried, but not all day...but that was also one of my most tired days.

    I didn't try more because of the digestive upset it caused. The first day was a higher Bristol than my usual 4, but not bad. By day 2, it was obvious my digestive track didn't like it. On the 3rd try, after an hour or two I could feel the rolling through my intestines. It didn't speed things along too much, but there was a definite sense my body didn't want it, as is the case with certain foods, and I have worked too hard to rid myself of IBS that I don't want to revisit it. So that is a sign my body doesn't want this now, at least in this form.

    I guess it's possible that a pure form of nicotine would be better, but my friend with similar IBS, N, and other issues gets the runs from stimulants (incl nicotine patch and she used to be a smoker), so I think it goes beyond the gum.

    It was an interesting experiment to try.

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