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The relationship thread......nurturing caring and love

Discussion in 'Female Quantum Biology' started by Jack Kruse, Jun 26, 2019.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I think that good narcissist is big enough to write its own definitions of what he/she is about.

    In that definition he or she when replaced with us will constitute progress.

    When Us is lost, the best narcissist is a looser (worthy its derogatory definition).

    Life is about Us.
    If we are not good for us....................etc etc


    What Communists do first?
    they break family ties. rewrite history books (every year)

    What teachers Union/schools, universities do.
    They break family ties.

    Just look for the results in our youngsters,
    look at results not at pretty words

    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    Anne V, caroline and KrusinWitchie like this.
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I disagree. Never subjugate yourself for us. That is akin to being OK diving in to save a drowning victim who will also take you down in the process of trying to help them. Evolution is not about that and neither am I.
  3. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    When diving it is good idea to do it in pairs.
    Being equal down there.
    Point Pleasant NJ
    I/we have spread ashes of marina manager (lovely but narcissist) who was diving with his subordinate.
    He ran out from him, lost contacts, then ran out of air.
    We had a party afterwards at Wharfside

    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
    caroline and KrusinWitchie like this.
  4. KrusinWitchie

    KrusinWitchie New Member


    I think narcissists default to this way of thinking when a threat is perceived. There’s a litany of trivial BS that will still trigger my partner into thinking I am trying to subjugate him, which leads him to begin attempting to subjugate me. Cue gentle reminder that we are not at war, we are in love, and it’s settled.

    The child inside of us who developed this pattern of behavior used it to protect us against real harm when we were powerless in our youth. I don’t believe it serves any useful purpose as adults.
  5. Saichi

    Saichi New Member

    The idea of property occurs naturally to the discrete and separate self. Just as Cartesian objectivity divides the world into self and other, property divides it into mine and yours. Just as Galilean materialism insists that only the measurable is real, so economics denominates all value in money units.

    The urge to own arises as a natural response to an alienating ideology that severs felt connections and leaves us “alone in the universe.” Shorn of connectedness and identity with the matrix of all being, the tiny, isolated self that remains has a voracious need to claim as much as possible of that lost beingness for its own. If all the world, all of life and earth, is no longer me, I can at least compensate by making it mine.

    It has been said of infants, “Their wants are their needs.” The same is actually true of adults too, except that the want has been so distorted that its object can no longer satisfy the need, but may even intensify it. Such is the case with greed. Greed is not some unfortunate appendage to human nature to be controlled or conquered. It arises from a hunger for identity—for the richness of relationship from which identity is built. Ironically, following the pattern of any addiction, indulging in greed only exacerbates the underlying need, because enclosing more of the world into the domain of mine separates us all the more from the connected interbeingness for which we hunger.

    Perhaps this realization can temper our judgmentality toward the greedy. The next time you witness greed, see a hungry person instead. The next time you feel greedy yourself, take a moment to touch the wantingness, the existential incompletion, underneath that greed. The same goes for selfishness generally, that constricted feeling of wanting to manage and control the world outside the self so as to turn it toward the self’s benefit. Selfishness in all its forms seeks the benefit and inflation of a self rendered artificially small, a self which is in fact an ideological construct.

    As that word mine indicates, ownership implies an attachment of things to self. The more we own, the more we are. The constellation of me and mine grows. But no matter how large the discrete and separate self grows, it is still far smaller than the self of the hunter-gatherer. The pre-separation mind is able to affirm, all at once and without contradiction, “I am this body,” “I am this tribe,” “I am the jungle,” “I am the world.” No matter how much of the jungle we control, we are smaller than the one who knows, “I am the jungle.” No matter how dominant we are socially, we are far less than one who knows, “I am my tribe.” And far less secure, too, because all of these appendages to our tiny separate selves may be easily sundered from us. We are therefore perpetually and irremediably insecure. We go to great lengths to protect all these accessories of identity, our possessions and money and reputations, and when our house is burglarized, our wallet stolen, or our reputation besmirched, we feel as if our very selves have been violated.

    Not only does our acquisitiveness arise out of separation, it reinforces it as well. The notion that a forest, a gene, an idea, an image, a song is a separate thing that admits ownership is quite new. Who are we to own a piece of the world, to separate out a part of the sacred universe and make it mine?Such hubris, once unknown in the world, has had the unfortunate effect of separating out ourselves as well from the matrix of reality, cutting us off (in experience if not in fact) from each other, from nature, and from spirit. By objectifying the world and everything in it, by making an other of the world, we necessarily objectify ourselves as well in relation to that other. The self becomes a lonely and isolated ego, connected to the world pragmatically but not in essence, afraid of death and thus closed to life. Such a self, cut off from its true nature and separated from the factitious environment created by its own self-definition, will always be insecure and will always try to exert more and more control over this environment.

    The extent to which we identify ourselves with our bodies, possessions, and the domain of our control is also the extent to which we are afraid of death. I am speaking here not of the biological terror that drives any animal to struggle with a predator, but to an ambient dread that drives us to pretense and hiding. More than any other crisis, death is the intruder whose mere approach crumbles the fortress of the separate self. A personal brush with death, or even the passing of a loved one, connects us to a reality beyond the constructs of me and mine. Death opens our hearts. Death reminds us, with a clarity that trumps all logic, that only love is real. And what is love, but a melting of the boundaries between self and other? As many poets have understood, love too is a kind of death.

    To a person identified with tribe, forest, and planet, the death of the body and all it controls is far less frightening. Another way to describe such a person is that he or she is in love with the world. Love is antidote to fear of death, because it expands one’s boundaries beyond what can be lost. Conversely, fear of death blocks love by shutting us in and making us small. And fear of death is built into our ideology—the self-definition implicit in objectivist science.

    Money and property simply enforce this self-definition. They are concrete manifestations of the separate self, the self that is afraid of death and closed to love. Money, in its present form, is anti-love. But it is not the root of all evil, just another expression of separation, another piece of the puzzle. Other systems of money are possible that have the opposite effect of our present currency, structurally discouraging the accumulation of me and mine. Curious? Keep reading…

    Something like a money system cannot be changed in isolation. Not only does it correspond to our sense of self and our identification with ego; it also flows from the meta-historical process of separation I have described thus far.

    Incipient already in fire and stone, label and number, the objectification of the world crystallized into a new phase with the advent of agriculture: domestication of plants and animals, the turning of nature to human purposes. Then the Machine propelled separation to yet a new level: its promise of transcending natural limitations set us above and apart from nature, while machine society’s mass scale and division of labor unraveled human communities. Finally, the methods and logic of the machine achieved their apotheosis in science, which elevated the long-emerging ideology of the discrete and separate self to the status of sanctified truth.

    The stage was now set for this ideology to play itself out in the material and social realm. When the world becomes a collection of objects (as in symbolic culture), when these objects are subordinated to human use (as in domestication, agriculture), then they inevitably become property, things that may be bought and sold, defined by their utility for human ends. When science and machine technology then totalize the subjugation of nature, the conversion of the world to money and property tends toward totality as well. The propertization and monetization of life discussed in this chapter grows inevitably from the separation that began with agriculture or before, and that reached its conceptual fulfillment with the Newtonian World-machine.

    Money is the instrument—not the cause, the instrument—by which our separation from nature, spirit, love, beauty, justice, peace, and community approaches its maximum.

    Immersed in the logic of money, we actually see this separation as a good thing. If that seems an outrageous statement, consider what is meant by “financial independence” and the closely related goal of financial security. Financial security means having enough money not to be dependent on good luck or good will. Money promises to insulate us from the whims of nature and the vicissitudes of fate, from the physical and social environment. From this perspective, the quest for financial security is but a projection of the Technological Program into personal life. Insulation from the whims of the environment (which is to master it, to bring it under control) is the age-old quest of technology. And its fulfillment (perfect control over nature) also means perfect security, the elimination of risk.
  6. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    In humans, when one partner is an extreme narcissist, and the other not, it is the other that may find themselves sleep walking into being the one who becomes subjugated.

    Evolution is not about unrealistic bravery, but evolution and nature are full of examples of co-operative relationships that don't involve subjugation. Evolution is about that and so am I. :D
    Alex97232 likes this.
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Subjugation is one of many types of injustice in the world. It has to do with one group of people dominating another group by taking away their freedom.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I believe Mother Nature is an extreme narcissist and I love her for that.........
  9. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

  10. 5G Canary

    5G Canary Gold

    I have really enjoyed reading everyone’s thoughts, views and opinions in this thread. But all, including my own, are just that...beliefs, opinions and thoughts as this is more human nature than science.

    We all bleed the same but we all think and feel differently. Unless you can actually feel what another person is feeling or thinking it is just your own opinion of your own experience or observations here.

    This is just my own opinion and experience but I still see a “wise proper narcissist” from a positive point of view.

    I usually like to question things when I am told “I have to believe.” Just like I didn’t believe and questioned my older siblings views of my father being a narcissist. I felt they were projecting onto me their own feelings and feeding off of each other’s negative energies.

    I find it ironic that by disagreeing with my siblings beliefs it could somehow imply that “I must have been unconsciously allowing my father to subjugate me.” This makes me smile. Who is trying to subjugate me here... my father or siblings? Shouldn’t my beliefs be my own? Whether I agree or disagree.

    I like to be a silent observer. I make my own decisions and beliefs based on what I observe and how I feel... I use my intuition. Being the youngest of 5 it gave me a greater advantage. I was able to observe what worked well and what didn’t work well within our family dynamics.

    Us siblings all still love and respect one another but see and feel things very differently... even with the same genes and parents.

    Nature teaches us we need to be hunters in order to survive. My father the “wise proper narcissist” taught me to be a good hunter... not prey.
    Jackie Jolie, JanSz and Sean Waters like this.
  11. MITpowered26

    MITpowered26 New Member

    I gotta be real to myself here. This thread has me like a fish out of water. Maybe I have an idea about these terms intuitively someone in myself, but outwardly I don't have much grasp of these concepts. Looking forward to some interesting personal education & growth on this thread.
    Sean Waters likes this.
  12. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Nature has its rules, but in terms of behaviour, humans have a range of possibilities, from extreme narcissism to extreme altruism, and everything in between. All seem to be played out within the human body, from cancer to the altruism of apoptosis, so Mother Nature being an extreme narcissist doesn't resonate at all. I don't accept "wise proper narcissism" as an excuse to behave any way I want any more than I'd accept "wise proper altruism" as an excuse to justify giving a kidney to a complete stranger, or expecting anyone else to.

    I see the "Mother" part of Mother Nature as a courtesy title, nature as all genders and genderless. The latest blog Do you go all in for nature or yourself appears to be directed at men, with potential catastrophic consequences to their relationships with, and the health and well being of, their female partners and children. Nurturing caring and love it aint. :(
    KrusinWitchie likes this.
  13. Anne V

    Anne V Silver

    How trees talk to each other | Suzanne Simard
    a ted talk on you tube
    showing cooperation in nature :)
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    If you want to explore love on a solo journey look to art creation. Art and love have a lot in common........Art and love are the same things: It's the process of seeing yourself in things that are not really you in reality. A lover and a painter should begin every relationship and canvas with a wash of black because all things in nature begin with darkness except where exposed by the light of the sun. The same is true about love........Love and art all begin with an unusual property of light called orbital angular momentum. The frequency of light contains its POWER density, but OAM controls how much information is in the photon. Good artwork and good love tend to contain more OAM then power density in nature. https://www.youtube.com/embed/olN73MjQXP8
  15. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Relationships and friendships Black Swan feedback loop biohack:

    Some people burn through their chances pretty fast. Three, four, five strikes. How many you give someone depends…

    But you’re allowed to cut people off. If someone keeps undermining you, on purpose or not, you don’t have to put up with it. You don’t have to make excuses for them, either.

    Keeping a shit list doesn’t mean you have to wave it around, or tell people when you put them there. It’s just handy to know who you actually give a shit about, who you can rely on, and who you can’t.

    Does this make you uncomfortable? You can balance the negativity by keeping the opposite of a shit list. Call it an all-star list. A top gun list. The ones you should show some appreciation for.
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  17. Anne V

    Anne V Silver

    Thanks JanSz. :)
  18. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    Anne V likes this.
  19. Anne V

    Anne V Silver

    Art washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.”
    ― Pablo Picasso
    Sean Waters and 5G Canary like this.
  20. Anne V

    Anne V Silver

    “Art is the lie that enables us to realize the truth.”
    ― Pablo Picasso
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