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The quality of our relationship:

Discussion in 'Success Stories' started by Jack Kruse, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. I just read this in the Letters Section of the NY Times magazine..............it is in response to a story by this Norwegian writer Karl Ove Knausgaard who did a kind of 'travel story' of driving around in the US. And he is kind of 'cynical' about the US as we Europeans sometimes (often!) are. But one letter writer objected to his making fun of the US and wrote in reply about Norway

    "A Norwegian party consists of 10 gallons of bad booze, a darkened room, half a candle and a suicide note"

    Anyway in a strange way it rang a bell with my expierience yesterday which had no booze (not much), a terribly over-lighted room and no suicide notes to be seen. Only 'positive' and up-lifting messages
    Martin likes this.
  2. billy

    billy New Member

    Thanks so much!
  3. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Important to separate the message from the messenger....one has to digest this material, it takes time like all interesting technology and truth.
    rlee314, caroline and Brother John like this.
  4. Brother John

    Brother John Silver

    Ya know Pat, you are a pretty good writer and a damn honest guy. It takes a big person to be honest and open...You might not feel any less alone, but I appreciate you being here and on this planet.
    Thanks Pat!
    Brother John
  5. Thanks Brother John, and actually you saying that does make me feel a little less alone. I think all of us Irish are 'writers' I was thinking about this we didn't have much, like the Germans had their music and science, the Dutch their painters, the Italians their churches and art. We had next to nothing but we had..............our voices, we could talk so we were/are all 'writers'.

    I have stumbled on 'writing' myself I never thought of myself that way but I have found it to be a great 'discipline' or even 'therapy' you might say. Like there were over the weekend at the "Event" so many impressions thoughts etc and I even said to Jack at some point 'I will just write about this' and he said it was a good idea. I feel happy also you use the word 'honest' because for me that kind of is what writing is just being 'honest'. And by doing that or expressing that it clears the way for more insights or more understanding.

    Sometimes I feel hobbled by not knowing more 'science' but even that I feel more confident about. I can read a book even a pretty technical and pretty much take most of it in. But I am lacking in quite a lot of the really 'technical' stuff. But then again I am not so interested in 'technical' I mean it's great but it takes all kinds to make a world so my place is different.
    Brother John likes this.
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

  7. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Patrick was a pleasure to spend time with. He gave me a book and I got it half done on the plane home. Pat don't worry about the science. Not knowing those details it is actually a huge advantage, because their is less dogma you have to navigate.
    The most precious etchings of caring about people can be traced not in the scope of the message youre sending, but in the integrity of its purpose. What I tried to convey to you is that most of our beliefs cause us to see and think linearly. We must stop taking each element separately, and begin to connect our thoughts and fit them together properly as nature requires.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  8. And the great thing is we BOTH agree on this! Like the physics equations all of them can be read both ways back to front and front to back. On a bit of a 'serious' note I honestly think those 6 bright chandeliers really did my brain in! It just shows I suppose people are just used to that to me not being used to it anymore it was a shock to the system. When I think about now I can still 'see' the lights. Total overload.
    NeilBB and David Limacher like this.
  9. Meeting Jack in person in Vancouver was a great experience. His insights were impressive and a few times he dropped some truth bombs on me.
    NeilBB likes this.
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Pat that is why I made them turn them off during my talk!!!
  11. Jack were any of the other "guru's" getting it?
  12. Oh yeah I guess so I didn't realize that. But it's true it was later I noticed the effect of them. Sometimes here and there they turned them all the way up for a brief time and it was like 'nuclear' toxic. I am going on about this because the more I think about it it supports your whole theory about how 'primordial' light is but in good and bad ways. And it is really something we are 'conditioned' to regard as harmless. I can see now eating 'healthy' while living in that kind of world will get you nowhere.............except sick. Such an important truth.
  13. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I love this discussion Pat and Neil ......I personally think that Jack is a great listener and observer.

    I have always thought that Jeremy said it best ...."Jack is a hell of a talker ....but an amazing listener as well"
    That has always been my experience.....
    JK has a knack for "lifting up" us regular folks ...and also cutting us down to size when we need to pay better attention and focus!
    NeilBB, Martin and David Limacher like this.
  14. Witnessed that in Vancouver Caroline.
    caroline likes this.
  15. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Nice......... cant wait for the cruise.......
  16. Neil, I hope I am not over doing this I mean with the music and all but this thing about Jack's 'message' being uplifting and positive but also dark reminded me of this marvelous (I think) Bob Dylan song "It's not dark yet (but it's getting there)" Some snatches of the words...............

    Shadows are fallin' and I've been here all day
    It's too hot to sleep and time is runnin' away
    Feel like my soul has turned into steel
    I've still got the scars that the sun didn't heal

    Well, my sense of humanity has gone down the drain
    Behind every beautiful thing there's been some kind of pain
    She wrote me a letter and she wrote it so kind
    She put down in writin' what was in her mind

    Well, I've been to London and I been to gay Paris
    I've followed the river and I got to the sea
    I've been down on the bottom of the world full of lies
    I ain't lookin' for nothin' in anyone's eyes
    Sometimes my burden is more than I can bear
    It's not dark yet but it's gettin' there.

    I was born here and I'll die here against my will
    I know it looks like I'm movin' but I'm standin' still
    Every nerve in my body is so naked and numb
    I can't even remember what it was I came here to get away from
    Don't even hear the murmur of a prayer
    It's not dark yet but it's gettin' there.

    There is something about those words so 'pessimistic' but beautiful at the same time. That's kind of how I feel about the world now................it's beautiful but it's passing..............maybe more beautiful because it is passing....................we can or need to appreciate it all the more because we don't know how long more it will be there..............it's not dark yet but it's getting there...............
    Brother John likes this.
  17. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

  18. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    You want to know why I really love art and music so much, Pat? It is and has always been by far the most effective and most socially efficient method to slash through a culture's dogma in a fight to uphold an individual's vision of truth and nature. Dylan certainly knew that. And some artists certainly have better vision than others. But the elder generations have been quite correct to fear jazz, rock music, heavy metal, etc, etc. Pop music is NOT the same thing--it is an expression of the dogma, not a challenge to it. This is why the true artists almost always face massive struggles and the Miley Cyrus's and Justin Bieber's don't...
  19. NeilBB

    NeilBB New Member

    Also, Pat. You have to look at it this way. You don't get to choose the era you are born in (or what you are born as for that matter). It is what it is. You have to look at the bright side. The tragedy of life is that death awaits--it always does. That's why the Buddha said that "life is suffering," etc, etc. Yada yada. The trick is to be able to see the "end of the road" and acknowledge it for what it is, but not to obsess about it. The purpose of living is truly to focus on "now." Eckhart Tolle is right about that, I think, as were his teachers, Krishnamurti, et al. (I'm sure Josh knows a lot more about all them than I do.) And the Western "Existentialists" took the opposite position--they concluded that the very "fact of death" invalidates all of life and makes it thereby superfluous and ridiculous. Even Shakespeare held this essential view and was a precursor to this kind of thought. Most religions and philosophies lie somewhere in between these positions on that continuum. The trick is to be able to "learn from the past," to "see into the future" but remain "alive in the present." That's what I try to do, at least.

    The advantage of living now, at this time I think, is that we are seeing and benefiting from what may likely be the "peak of humanity." And we do have a lot of advantages today Pat. You are in LA and I am in Alabama, and we are having a chat. Try doing that from a cave 10,000 years ago. Contrary to what a lot of paleo people might think, personally, I think life would have sucked living as a caveman. I mean we can dress it up and glorify it and call it "Grok," all we want. But I'll take now over then. Warts and all. That's just me... It would actually be possible to "have our modern cake and eat it too," but first society would have to acknowledge that we have a big problem. Most are not there yet. Will they get there? I don't know. Personally, I'm not sure that I care too much either. I have to live for today and do what I think is right, today. That's all.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
    Brother John, Lahelada and Josh like this.
  20. Cool Neil I just wrote this...............

    I wish I could write a dirge
    for the end of the world
    the last yelp of a seal
    the last tear of the last gorilla
    tears, tears , tears
    water on a parched planet
    from water comes life
    tears are a substitute
    but it's all I have
    practicing magical thinking again
    NeilBB likes this.

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