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The PPP and ketosis, some different ideologies...

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by BigPapaChakra777, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    very interesting.............to say the least.
  2. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Humans are significantly more specialized and optimized, as compared to other primates. In order to develop our large brains, we gave up things like a large gut that would make us more generalized and adaptable. Like the cheetah, we underwent a lot of evolution to get us where we are now. It may be that it will be more difficult for us to adapt quickly. And perhaps that is the problem with the honey bee.

    I think it would be a lot easier for the bacteria and amoebas to adapt. Sponges and other such simple life forms. Then life would have to do it all again.

    But we are definitely trying to adapt, witness all the neolithic diseases. We probably saw similar problems when the agricultural period started. And we didn't adapt very well to that. We just lost the weakest ones.

    edit: Actually we did adapt quite well. We lost some expensive brain power, which enabled us to eat a more flexible diet. Yay!
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  3. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Guess that's the beauty in our de-evolution. We are losing the adaptations that cost the most, and make us less flexible. So lose more brain power, gain more metabolic flexibility.
  4. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Sally I am afraid you might be close to the truth with this statement.
  5. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The person who trust the path they are on does not worry about disproving other pathways.............
    Joe Gavin likes this.
  6. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    I must say that the mountain may be tough to climb or even UN-attainable but the path is amazing......
  7. JoeBranca

    JoeBranca Silver

    Hi Danco I'll need to facebook friend you if you're on there. It's great to see another MCT on these forums, and working together the same outside-the-box ideas. I'm heading up to SF (!) in August for the level 2 cert. Personal improvement is my foremost goal; then hopefully some day I'll figure out the whole coaching thing and begin to help others move better, to find the efficient paths.

    What really tied things together for me was hanging out with Erwan and Dr K in the butt ass cold in Santa Fe back in January lol. It felt like the launch phase of a new direction, but there's a lot of distance to cover for sure, as Barry's input reminds me ; )
  8. Barry

    Barry New Member

    a wise man once told me one time: "our thoughts are coloured by our perception".................
  9. MeghanK

    MeghanK New Member

    Danco and Barry do you guys do ZERO carbs? Or do you eat sweet potatoes and other veggies to fuel your endurance...
    Danco.... what is your normal workout schedule? Are you doing endurance like Barry and feeling this great with no carbs?
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Yep.......Sounds familiar.
  11. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Myself I don't intentionally add carbs.... I am sure I get some though liver, vegetables, oysters, other seafood, eggs, some limited nuts etc. I don't do sweet potatoes or much of any fruit (some berries form time to time when in season but only a handful for flavor) I have done sweet potatoes in the past but have no need for them now....
    I don't do endurance training like Barry.... I use to race triathlons/ Ironmans etc professionally and as an age grouper in the past but right now strength, MovNat with some limited endurance. Although inspired by Barry and noticing the possible benefits of endurance training to help enhance fat burning and the PPP I have been adding some back in..... An occasional longer bike, run or even cold water swim..... I may even jump back into a race at some point for fun.
    Today I did a longer fasted run for the heck of it to see how I would do......

    Here was the workout:
    Also this was after 6 hours of martial arts training the day before.....

    ★彡 OK so today's workout: This was done fasted from last night around 8:00 with a cup of coffee before hand:
    ★ First thing in the morning was a Ice/ cold bath soak for 40 min.
    ★ Then a 2 hour MovNat run....(no food or water consumed during) Meaning through the woods, climbing trees, over rocks, under and over through dense brush, cartwheels, handstands, jumping in and out of ponds and creeks, scaling walls, balancing on curbs, logs and rails etc. This was done with my dog.... and I got more scratched up from this than the 6 hours of martial arts training yesterday. Also did portions of this barefoot in grassy area's.
    ★ Post run cold water from the hose rinse off and ice packs on the shoulders, back and chest.
    ★ Waited about 1.5 - 2 hours or so after and had a low carb meal of oysters, bacon, eggs, avocado and some butter and coconut oil.

    On the run I didn't go at a record breaking pace.... just a pace that felt fun and energizing.... No heart rate monitors, ipods, etc. Only my shorts, shoes, watch & dog. When I saw something fun to do like climb a tree, scale a wall, low crawl through some brush or under branches etc. I just did it.....

    It was 2 hours of play time.....

    Oh yeah and I didn't have to carb up before during or after the fun time......
  12. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

  13. sjoshua

    sjoshua New Member

    @Barry: I realize you are in a lucrative/beneficial position in your distance running as you pursue PPP, and understand you don't want to divulge some of the details pertaining to that, but I was hoping you'd give a little insight into your biking regarding your adaptive abilities thus far.

    What sort of pace are you maintaining during your long training rides (KPH/MPH)? What sort of distances/gradients are you riding?

    I've been biking more lately (its a nice relief from driving sometimes) and I was just hoping to compare to my own, recreational n=1. I haven't done anything nearly as extreme as you I'm sure, with a normal ride being 10-30 miles, with the occasional 50-70 mile day (split up riding over hours). I always ride fasted, and have a camelbak for when I want water but find more recently that I have used it less and less. I ride a fixed gear (52/16) and my typical pace is ~16-17mph; San Jose is pretty flat with the occasional +/-1%, but I do ride up in the hills of SF on occasion, those are fun :)

  14. Linz

    Linz Gold

    Remember cold-adaptation is required for long-term ketosis. Carbs should be higher in summer with more light (vit D etc) unless low temperature uncouples light response (I think?).

    Reversing disease requires year round winter - like a great white shark cold, dark, raw fish. Athletes are trying to use carbs/ketosis/diet to sustain performance, and quite separately using cold but rarely link the two.


    Your thoughts have really helped me to put many different aspects together but I think there is an important 5th group for whom the answer to your question, 'Do we need to be in PPP?' is absolutely YES (assuming PPP is the right one and a better pathway can't be found).

    Group 5 Those with inflammatory diseases sliding towards cancer or already there NEED to find the most reducing pathways and means to restore efficient cell respiration and signalling. Perhaps research will find alternatives or additions to the PPP, and perhaps just some of the easier lifestyle changes can make enough difference for some but at the moment medicine has little to offer.

    The worst that can happen to an elite athlete is a not quite reaching their potential. Group 5 have far more to lose and could be any one of us tomorrow.

    Am I stressed by biochemical pathways, q physics, lifestyle choices, hours of research, little professional help. Absolutely! But every small step of real progress or better understanding creates more confidence and hope.
    Was I stressed by steroids, immune suppression, dire side-effects, threat of drastic surgery - don't worry, we can cover up (well maybe, nearly, at what risk, for a while)? - Beyond words.

    Papa Chakra, keep up the quest, knowledge is critical, but look back and enjoy the hopeful signs on the way.
  15. Albert83BCN

    Albert83BCN New Member

    You nailed it, I thought the same when I read that response. We might not be elites but if we train to the maximum of our potential with a lot of effort on it, that means a lot of stress also and the possible decline in our healths due to overreaching... the same or even worst than elites, so if there's a way to lessen that damage (other than quitting!) then I think its of utmost importance that we all gain the knowledge to master it...
  16. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Great discussion here. Hoping to see more dialog and hear of any new discoverys and experiences.
  17. dantothep

    dantothep Follow life's little clues...

    I too loved this thread...
  18. René Borg

    René Borg New Member

    Is what you are saying Jack that green tea, garlic as well as curcumin (lower than 1800 mgs) day is unlikely to interfere with tendon repair while ASA is not? Just curious because I take a lot of garlic, green tea and turmeric while doing a lot of running, and this is the first time I hear that it could be a repair inhibitor.

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