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The PPP and ketosis, some different ideologies...

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by BigPapaChakra777, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. Barry

    Barry New Member

    I mean this in a helpful way.... take your foot off the gas. Its the sides of the mountain that sustain life, not the top, as its here where things grow.

    Its taken me 5yrs to get to where I am, and I'm still not at the top.
    sfast likes this.
  2. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

  3. @Barry: Thanks for the advice, and I agree. I do have to take a step back and enjoy the ride. I tend to do things like that - I'll get all caught up in the action expecting something big, but then eventually cool down and become conscious of what I'm doing. The only thing I'd have to add is that I do think it is necessary I ask the questions I have for a variety of reasons. It takes people who question everything to see if things are truly how they seem to be (PPP), and also, to take it to new levels. That's why I read so deeply into a variety of topics, I want to know the ins and outs of everything - and not just so I can say I know, but because I have a fascination with learning. Secondly, I would love to find out if there are steepened levels of the PPP as I have said, because in all honesty, I'd accept being minimally in a chemically reduced state of anabolism but yet have a little bit of what is seen by others as "normality" in me (whether that be diet or playing video games or going to a late night movie). I'd want to apply the 80/20 - Tim Ferriss does this to diet and exercise and longevity, and he looks good and has posted his lipids before and has great numbers, yet he eats his 'slow carb diet' and doesn't mind eating out at fancy restaurants and consuming gluten and what not - he even said on the Bryan Callen show that if he could recommend three foods to people it would be lentils, spinach, and eggs, lol.

    @Danco: I love seeing what you're doing. Now that I've finally paid attention to your name in your signature, I realize I've seen you comment on Ben Greenfields facebook and blog. I think the way your going about doing it is great. I think I'm going to take a little different approach but hopefully end up in the same boat and enjoy the journey. I've already noticed some similar changes, and this has been after a short while - dark circles under eyes slowly disappearing; very little to no acne ever; softer skin; better ability to tan; more energy; the list goes on. If I were to change anything major in my life right now that would affect me, I'd ensure my ability to do martial arts without abrupt ends when I/my family has no funds, and also add in some training similar to yours - MoveNat. Have you heard of Ido Portal? You should look him up on youtube, I think you'd love his ideas. He's all about movement as a means and manifestation of fitness and expression.

    @nonchalant: Thanks for the blog. I plan on having that be one of the ones I go and print rather soon. I'm off to the library in a bit to print some of Dr. Kruse' most game changing blogs.
  4. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    I have.... I just worked with a guy while in Japan that worked with him for one of his workshops.... great stuff and the guy moves outstanding..... I implement his kind of stuff with my MovNat. I do a lot of my stuff out doors when I can....
  5. erixsparhawk

    erixsparhawk New Member

    Be careful with the Green Tea (EGCG), Tumeric (curcumin), garlic, asprin. They are all platelet inhibitors and in addition to thinning your blood they prevent repair of tendons. I was stacking the green tea, garlic, and tumeric to "bio hack" post postprandial blood sugars. Over the winter I had an Achilles injury that continued to get worse despite taking more than two weeks of not running one step. I was advised by a doctor that does PRP treatment that these platelet inhibitors were preventing my body from repairing itself. Indeed when I stopped using them the Achilles started to get better. Also I noticed that I would tend to bleed excessively after pricking my finger for my blood glucose and blood ketone tests while consuming these.
    On another note I am definitely in the camp that advocates underfeed / overfeed related to training day intensity but still with all keto friendly foods. I wish I had started doing this much much earlier. Also paleo + keto is def the better way to go for me I seem to funtion way better then when I eat crap keto food. IE, high omega 6 nuts, dairy, and meats like pork. Micronutrient hunger seems to be a real thing too. The first time I started incorporating liver into my diet my apatite when to zero (800 calories days made me feel stuffed!) for like 5 days before ramping back up to 2200. And that is with exercise. It was as if I was overfed on macros and underfed in micros and once I got the needed micros I didn't need to eat for a while.
    I believe that I have a rather low daily calorie requirement because I still have a bit of weight to loose which covers the huge caloric deficit. Pre keto I would typically consume 3500 calories a day.
    Just an FYI I don't do the whole "hungry" thing, I eat when I feel it.
    Naturally have fallen into a 16/8 eating window without ever wanting to. I used to think that fasting was crazy but it is what my body wants to do. Once or twice a month it wants to go 22-26 hours.
    One last thing. While I letting my Achilles recover I was weight lifting a lot and put on lots and lots of muscle mass all 100% in ketosis. Weight was stable but I gained several inches on my measurements, arms, chest, etc while waist circumference did not increase.
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    ASA is not a good idea in that stack.......the others most can get away with safely. If the curcumin is not over 1800 mgs a day one likely is OK.
    Sean Waters and René Borg like this.
  7. sjoshua

    sjoshua New Member

    Wow, this is a great discussion.

    Jack, I believe I am understanding the PPP more and more, the references and explanation of E=MC^2 were very helpful!

    (Barry's reference to the mountain was helpful too... that is, if my assumptions are correct or on the right track...)

    Would I be correct in saying that a body that is perfectly in sync/in the PPP would essentially be in a state of eternal harmony? i.e. if perfectly achieved, the consumption of food (energy) would be unnecessary since the body is not losing any energy since at the atomic level everything is able to move effortlessly (lossless from an energy perspective) through the system?

    Such a state would be inachievable in our current world, due to the state of our planet. Stupid humans...

    So, with Barry's analogy, does this mean a body will never truly reach the mountain peak anymore, but can only aim for perfection (reduce EMF, increase CT, tune brain into Schumann, etc)... and then fill in the gap with oysters? :)
    Sean Waters likes this.
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    youre getting it.......
    Sean Waters likes this.
  9. sjoshua

    sjoshua New Member

    Glad to hear... its too bad getting it sucks due to the fact that it only makes me more aware of the flaws all around...

    Whoever is first to buy/commandeer a deserted island in the middle of the ocean and build underground living quarters, please save me a room. I'll bring the fishing gear.
  10. marcus

    marcus New Member

    Isn't it paradoxical? On the one hand the body isn't loosing any energy because of PPP and getting its electrons by grounding. On the other hand every animal/human being has a mouth, stomach, ... by design. Why? As a backup system? Just to get liquids in your body?

    Did I miss something?
  11. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    We need the mitochondria for ATP to fold/unfold proteins correctly, and also as backup energy when we are away from great sources of energy.
    Like in winter, when the sun is less direct, but we are still moving around.
    rlee314 likes this.
  12. johnnyb

    johnnyb Gold

    I think one would still need to eat to get the substrates required to build and maintain ones body.
  13. marcus

    marcus New Member

    I was focussing on energy only. But a body needs more than that: e.g. micronutrient and mineral nutrients. Above all, macronutrients aren't used for energy only. Proteins and fats are (essential) parts of build a body.

    Thx for your answers so far!
  14. MeghanK

    MeghanK New Member

    Can someone say what the indicators are that you are in the PPP... is it all based on a N=1 feeling? Perfect blood numbers? Barry are you in the PPP? Jack? It seems like it would be different for everyone because no offense to Jack but I don't think you could go out and do a 5 hour bike ride fasted? Correct? But you both are in the PPP....
  15. GlenPDQ

    GlenPDQ New Member

    Just to add that ATP must be bound to magnesium (Mg-ATP) in order to be biologically active.

    ATP is an EWC which is to say an electron withdrawing cardinal adsorbent. Other molecules are EDP's (electron donating cardinal adsorbent). Cardinal points on proteins allows the adding or subtracting of electrons causing them to fold or unfold. The density, or structure, of water around the protein changes depending on whether it is folding or unfolding. Fascinating stuff.
  16. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Probably the closest someones come to making sense of all this.... so i'll elaborate and try to point people in the right direction, flood lights on.

    One of the most common words you'll see on this forum is "context"... and thats what it all about

    Context 1: obese person with some neolithtic disease

    Do they need PPP and can they access it ? - No, way more foundational things for them to get sorted

    Context 2: overweight person, used to follow SAD, doesn't really exercise, generally trying to just be healthy

    Do they need PPP and can they access it ? - again no, so many other dots for them to connect that they are way better off trying to improve and work on

    Context 3: The healthy and fit person, no history of disease of weight problems, trains an competes - many who follow this thread

    Do they need PPP and can they access it ? my opinion is no, firstly, the dots still need to be connected and your average "fit" person running a 3.30min marathon or doing a 12hr Ironman, or doing some crossfit 1-2 times per week etc etc......... still has a lot of upregulation of fat/keto adaptation to do.... and like I said before, there is no point in trying to take short cuts and magically become a "PPP" machine. You need to go through the process and climb the mountain, but by doing it while being mindful and taking in the views. More importantly, you need to work on connecting all the dots and using the auxiliary support i.e. Light, Circadium Cycles, Endogenous Clocks, EMFs, Connectedness. And realistically, there is no necessity for these people to attempt to acquire a metabolic type that is not going to be of any real performance benefit to them. By that I mean, all of the "optimal living" principles are more than enough for you to help you take 10mins off your 3.30hr marathon time or 30mins off your 12hr ironman... or whatever.

    Contect 4: elite athlete, competing not just for fun but to win, at a high standard, national/world class level

    Do they need PPP and can they access it ?

    The first part of this question , I'm still on the fence. We simply have nothing to go on other than theory. Am I in PPP and winning races ? I can't say.... I'm winning some races but so is the dude on a SAD diet. If Jack starts winning world championship events, at any sport, in PPP and epi-paleo/CT etc, even if its N=1, then I'll buy into it more. But for now, and I;m not a reductionist, all we have is a hypothesis.
    Are olympic gold medallists, marathon world record holders, Tour de France champions etc.... are these type of athletes in PPP ? nowhere near.... and I work in this game so I personally know a lot about these type of athletes. Many of them wouldn't even know what a ketone is. However, what I will say, is that this level of athlete, with their type of living and training, genetics and physiology..... are upregulating and activating many of the pathways that are being discussed here without them even knowing it.

    Finally, the second part, possibly the main subject of the debate, can these type of athletes access it ? .... .... as I mentioned, this PPP system still needs more study both theoretically and clinically. Lets assume it does work and can be accessed.

    Well, it comes down to what was mentioned in sjoshua's post. Everything needs to be in smooth working order. The right dots need to be in place, the dots need to be connected, and then everything has to work in harmony.

    So lets say you're an elite athlete, going to the next world championships or olympic games. First up, you have to travel to get to the destination. Flights, EMF's maybe poor food. You then are put up in a hotel. More EMFs, maybe poor sleep, no perfect keto/epi-paleo foods available, no where near grass, mountains or sea. Outcome - semiconductors, inner mitchondrial membranne, electron flow, cell signalling, etc etc... downregulated........... what happens ? you simply don't feel as well and don't perform as well.

    It all comes down to a very simple thing. The real world is not set up for optimal living. Perfection is not achievable. Therefore embrace the imperfection. Don't try to be the best, just try to be better. Apply that to everything in life.

    People here are worrying themselves about something that possibly doesn't work in the muscle cell from a energy production point of view, and if it does, they don't actually need it, but more importantly, it is practically unattainable in the modern world.

    I'm off for a beer............
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  17. Hahah, I love how you ended that off. Your post will definitely help to push some of us in the right direction. That being said, I can benefit from the PPP because I do want to compete at elite levels (national BJJ competitions). I'm taking what you said to heart, though. I'm really a mindful individual, but as I said before hand sometimes I get caught up in the midst of the action. I'm going to connect back with my spiritual self and allow that to lead me, whether that is to the PPP and optimal semi-conduction, to a complete switch-around in my beliefs, or to a completely different diet template, I'll allow my gut to guide me.

    With all that being said, I thought of something today. I've still got a lot of reading and experimenting to do before I truly have any answers about things, but why did us humans not adapt quickly and efficiently to artificial light and what not? We obviously did to changing climates and geographies, why not something like technology? Regardless of it's true or not, I've heard people (probably transhumanists) speak about how were going to continue to evolve to allow us to more easily use technology and what not, even if that's not true, technology isn't going anywhere. Just look at nano-tech and bio-tech.... that's going to be HUGE, even in the medical field. Should we not embrace all of that as well as everything else and just do what we can to diminish the negatives, rather than try to avoid all technology?
  18. MeghanK

    MeghanK New Member

    Good Point BigPapa... I am wondering the same thing now? Is there any way we can or already have adapted to flouride in our water or EMFs from technology?
  19. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Because we were so smart, we have invented agriculture.
    That cost us about 300grams of brain within 20000 years.

    dantothep likes this.
  20. Dali Dula

    Dali Dula Moderator

    Adaptations to something like artificial light would not begin to happen until selection pressures affect reproductive rates. We may now be experiencing that. Our adaptations to climate were hardwired in mammalian biology long before humans evolved. Our culture and our technology are a barely significant blip in the big picture.The ancient pathway is always there for all humans at any time. The sun is a precise clock. Be on time.

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