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The Leptin Rx is getting more data in the sails DAILY.

Discussion in 'The Leptin Rx' started by Jack Kruse, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Mitchell97

    Mitchell97 New Member

    Agree. Breakfast does seem like the most important meal for circadian entrainment though. Gonna have to see what feels best for me by playing around with meal timing.
  2. Jason Coates

    Jason Coates Losing the Shade.

    Lagakos will tell you light entrains circadian rhythms much more than food. Getting Morning rising sun in the eyes far more important - breakfast can follow later if you have reset leptin. Playing around is a good idea once leptin reset - otherwise eat within 30 minutes of rising at the beginning and then push breakfast out as you see fit. Lagakos is big on breakfast and does not contradict much of Dr Kruse at all - actually confirms his stuff. Lagakos says "eat like an adult" up to 3 meals but not late at night
  3. Jason Coates

    Jason Coates Losing the Shade.

    My current unholy trinity of experts with skin in the game:
    1. Dr Kruse
    2. Dr Laslo Boros
    3. Dr Bill Lagakos

    Lagakos will teach you everything you need to know about leptin, circadian rhythms.
    Boros - mitochondrial matrix water and deuterium
    Kruse - all of above and more.

    I don't cast pearls before swine anymore. Information to fit the person and not for mockers and fools.
    Bonnie likes this.
  4. Mitchell97

    Mitchell97 New Member

    Yeah I read a lot of Bill's stuff and that's where I get my info from about eTRF and not eating late or even OMAD at dinner. A lot of people say otherwise that they feel better skipping breakfast and eating later in the day which isn't good for the circadian rhythm but most do it because of how they feel in that fasted state and believe that they will get the maximum benefit of autophagy that way. Agree with you on breakfast if leptin resistant and it's important before you start skipping breakfast to entrain the circadian rhythm with light and food in the morning. Context and the environment we live in now is different so that alters meal timing and frequency and I have read that Jack recommends breakfast as the largest meal of the day to get the autophagy benefit in our modern world with an early dinner and that CRON no longer works unless you eat a big protein breakfast because of EMF's.
    Jason Coates likes this.
  5. Jason Coates

    Jason Coates Losing the Shade.

    I have been using bicarb to clean my clocks - really assisting. Regarding autophagy = Bill says "autophagy happens anyway" but obviously Kruse is about optimizing it all - Bill is anti long fasts - spending a lot of time highlighting fast fails ;) eTRF will be great for autophagy - again all confirmation of JK.
    Mitchell97 likes this.
  6. Mitchell97

    Mitchell97 New Member

    Wondering what are everybody's opinion on when to eat carbs in the spring/summer. I've read that Jack doesn't recommend eating post workout in the modern world and if that's the case, it would be the AM, correct?

    Then again a lot of people on this forum are eating their big meal at dinner and would preferably eat their carbs at that meal.

    I'd like Jack's opinion on this too as he's the guru here :) and a mentor :D
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  7. kris90

    kris90 New Member

    I've always been a fan of carb backloading. That is, easy on the carbs during the earlier half of the day, and eating them all with dinner. As long as the dinner is before sunset, it works extremely well and is most enjoyable IME.

    What I've noticed is that if I do eat breakfast and have some carbs, and then carb backload at dinner, I put on weight quite easily. So I think with regards to food, we have the ability to phase shift/delay insulin patterns/sensitivity. So basically, to me, it doesn't seem to matter WHEN my big carb meal is, but if I have it early, then I must skip it later, and if I skip it early, then I can have it later.

    At the end of the day, we are absorbing a good amount of UV light in the summer to power the NADH/NAD+ redox couple that will help us handle carbs, so to me it is irrelevant when they are eaten (as long as between sunrise and sunset). I sometimes find if I don't eat enough carbs if I get plenty of sun, I might actually gain weight. As I mentioned, carbs lean me out in summer, but I don't eat them all day long, just have a single massive carb load usually.
    Mitchell97 likes this.
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    All this rules have some pluses and minuses.
    I have one more rule.
    I have set number for my optimal weight and that is my daily goal.
    Every morning I check my weight.
    If I am over my set point, I know I have to limit my food.
    Rarely I have problem with lower boundary.

    150# (+-5#)
    drezy likes this.
  9. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  10. drezy

    drezy New Member

    I like the approach.

    Traveling recently I've been off my regular schedule and put on 8 lbs.

    I got a little obsessive but noticed something interesting.

    Regardless of morning eliminations and all that regular jazz, I noticed that sitting in strong AM light 3 hours starting at about sunrise I lose weight. I eventually perspire a little. It doesn't seem like I perspire that much. But I'm always around a pound lighter. My loss rate can be 1 lb per day pretty easily.

    I'm fascinated now with the concept that even the biggest foodie knows that if someone comes in from outside in the summer sun and is "hot" they simply won't want to eat much. Everyone knows this experience. My world is turned on it's head now. We always knew that you didn't need food when out in strong sun. I just didn't connect the dots without help.
  11. gscottyg

    gscottyg New Member

    Interesting observations from you guys. Before I discovered Dr. Kruse I would do Keto and IF but I would eat breakfast or really brunch as my first meal in late AM. I would eat dinner, but often would not be that hungry or wait until later (After sunset) in the evening to eat. (This was low carb all the time Keto) Once I started working on circadian biology and following first meal early AM, I don't feel the need to eat at all during day; especially now during summer/UV light. When dinner comes i am often not to hungry either. It's easy to IF as long as you eat enough fat. I will say though if I get less sun and working inside all day (I work in OR setting like Dr. Kruse) then I will be hungrier by dinner. I assume it's due to increased nnemf exposure. I went on a recent trip to Nashville and went off my usual diet (although i had canned fish for bkfast everytime) and ate all sorts of stuff. Every morning I got 3 hrs of AM sun from sunrise through the UV progressions. I looked in mirror and i didn't gain weight and was slimmer!! That's another point. Are you guys hungry in early AM? Even if im not hungry I try to eat within the hr of getting up/sunrise.
  12. axel brandt

    axel brandt New Member

    It's a big american tradition to eat a big breakfast, and difficult to quit if you were born there, but Skipping breakfast is the easiest way to do intermittent fasting. However, as Jack says, never do it if you have anxiety or didnt sleep well the night before, it will elevate your cortisol levels even more.
  13. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    It is good idea to confirm that statement with test.
    Cost of testing is not very high.
    Many people are low in wake-up cortisol.


    Cortisol - AM, Serum 104018 - $14.44

  14. Solidsilverteeth

    Solidsilverteeth New Member

    The beauty of OMAD is that human growth hormone goes up 2000% in the urine.
  15. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    In the wild for animals with a definite breeding season, it is the light cycle that directs feeding behaviour. For example males can be so testosterone driven that food is the last thing on their minds ... The change in the light cycle that causes bears to have insatiable appetites before going into hibernation..... A female polar bear mating in spring but not becoming pregnant until autumn, and then only if she has enough fat reserves to support the pregnancy .... Her female biology wouldn't give a shit that a male polar bear can eat differently by spending winter on the ice. She's wired differently, and so are female humans. So although interesting, I'm less likely to follow what the guys say works for them, because assuming leptin sensitivity, there are female/male differences, and animals in the wild aren't talking about OMAD, weighing themselves, whether to eat within 30 minutes of sunrise etc. Its light directed seasonal changes, vegetation/prey, too randy to want food, OMAD or hungry every hour of daylight... ... Scatter or larder hoarding, living off fat stores or if nothing available, hibernate, migrate or starve......

    Having recovered leptin sensitivity, its a gift of menopause that my feeding behaviour is no longer as connected to my reproductive cycle. I'm not going to become pregnant again, or need to carry a child to full term, and then breast feed. I might eat once a day, twice a day or 3 times, depending on the season and how connected I am to the environment at that time. The less connected I am, or the colder it is, the more I eat. But there's a point where that becomes over eating, and its a sign to look at my environment, or be honest about my not taking advantage of a good environment, being indoors too much, not enough grounding, etc. My favoured eating pattern is about the same as yours, but I'll eat a BAB within 30 minutes if I've had a bad nights sleep. I've had days of only needing one midday meal, but only in very strong summer sunlight when I'm outside all day. It has to be natural, I'm not "trying" to do OMAD. I'm probably more careful than most because my biometrics indicate that I was epigenetically programmed in the womb to have a hypersensitive response to lack of food, or -as in leptin resistance - perceived lack of food. Lack of food, or perceived lack of food screws my sleep, so 2 meals in a 6 hour eating window with sufficient food is my best strategy so date, with the largest meal first. But I'll also occasionally go off track onto the shit off a shingle route ... For example a coffee and a slice of cake in the cafe garden in the sun having a laugh and a joke with a good friend has different metabolic effects than the same coffee and cake eaten alone and feeling guilty about it. :)
  16. Sheddie

    Sheddie Silver

    I noticed recently that if I eat before bed (right now 9:30-10:00 pm) my fasting blood sugar the next morning is 10-15 points higher every time. And, usually, my ketones aren't higher than a trace at the same time. I've been trying to do the Glucose:Ketones Index calculation to figure out how many carbs I need since I get sickie-feeling and have tremors from, it seems, insufficient carbs... Yet, I remain frustrated; I eat so little, no longer suffer hunger, raised my fat intake and lowered protein (for pro-inflammatory reactions). Winter's extreme fatigue is improved yet I haven't dropped weight or discerned leaky gut or sluggish liver improvements, or found any of the various short-term fasting ideas change anything. A work in progress.

    Still fierce about lots of sun. And, enjoying the new privacy fence as well as grounding on a new type of Zoysia grass lawn supposed to be weed resistant, unlike the old Bermuda type that got some weed with nasty stickers no bare foot, human or dog, could tolerate...
    Phosphene, caroline, drezy and 2 others like this.
  17. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    This just came across my twitter feed.
    Early Time‐Restricted Feeding Reduces Appetite and Increases Fat Oxidation But Does Not Affect Energy Expenditure in Humans

    "Meal‐timing interventions facilitate weight loss primarily by decreasing appetite rather than by increasing energy expenditure. eTRF may also increase fat loss by increasing fat oxidation."

    Metabolic hormones
    As shown in Figure 6, eTRF decreased morning levels of active ghrelin (Δ = −43 ± 15 pg/mL; P = 0.009), leptin (Δ = −4 ± 1 ng/mL; P = 0.01), and GLP‐1 (Δ = −0.8 ± 0.3 pmol/mL; P = 0.008) but did not affect PYY (P = 0.25). In the evening, eTRF tended to decrease active ghrelin levels (Δ = −22 ± 12 pg/mL; P = 0.09) and increase PYY levels (Δ = 17 ± 6 pg/mL; P = 0.02) but did not affect leptin (P = 0.18) or GLP‐1 (P = 0.36). In aggregate, eTRF lowered mean levels of ghrelin by Δ = −32 ± 10 pg/mL (P = 0.006) and tended to decrease mean values of leptin (Δ = −5 ± 2 ng/mL; P = 0.07).

    BUT: n=11
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
    Sheddie, Phosphene and drezy like this.
  18. kris90

    kris90 New Member

    Interesting... So maybe those who practice IF by skipping breakfast and eating in the latter half of the day experience less hunger, while those who IF by eating breakfast and skipping dinner experience higher energy expenditure.

    I've kind of wondered this, because I tend to prefer to skip meals early in the day, so I can go and get things done and be productive, and enjoy feasting at dinner time (of course always before the sun sets). I've found by dinner, I get full very quickly, and often have to forcefeed myself just to enjoy a little bit of everything. Whereas, if I eat early in the day, I almost always have a need to consume dinner. But if I skip lunch, I lose weight, despite eating both a big breakfast and dinner. Definitely an N=1.
    Sheddie and drezy like this.
  19. drezy

    drezy New Member

    I have a similar experience. Over time, though, I tend to default to an 11AM and 3pm eating time(breakfast optional) and it seems to work for me well.

    I assume that you are aware of the work of Satchin Panda @kris90 .

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