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Discussion in 'Redox Rx' started by Jack Kruse, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. i only just got off a plane from japan and am now at clinic with patients, i just sent it to you now...
    Karen & Glen C. likes this.
  2. Oooh, I love Japan..spent alot of time around ikibukero and kashiwa.
    Josh (Paleo Osteo) likes this.
  3. Michael Barnes

    Michael Barnes New Member

    Josh: Many thanks. I would like to buy one. Do you offer a discount for loyal Dr. K followers?
    Michael CULLEN and Alex97232 like this.
  4. Alex97232

    Alex97232 Gold

    He does--and very generous. Place your order and add a note asking for the Kruse discount. Shipping is free within Australia--the shipping fee to USA is way less than the Kruse discount--so, go for it.
  5. DockMD

    DockMD That’s the reason why

    Will the type of Australia-to-USA outlet adapter I use make any difference?

    Any specific links to the adapter I should get?
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    Alex97232 likes this.
  6. any adaptor for the plug, no step down converter etc is needed. the AC/DC power supply is 110/220V
    Luisa88, mrc, Theka and 2 others like this.
  7. Joe Fang

    Joe Fang Farm Members

    Will be ordering from you very soon. Just sold the Joovv lights.

    Moving out of CA to Louisiana in 3 weeks and will have your lights shipped there.
  8. gscottyg

    gscottyg New Member

    Just to let you guys know I received Josh's product (fast to USA) and fair priced. It is superior to JOOV and cheaper lol from Australia! Now if I only had the extra money for that dam bed right now :0 Good product!
  9. glad youre enjoying it, thanks for the words!
    John Schumacher likes this.
  10. brookway17

    brookway17 Silver

    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  11. The article also goes onto say "In general, fluences of red or NIR as low as 3 or 5 J/cm2 will be beneficial" "but a large dose like 50 or 100 J/cm2 will lose the beneficial effect and may even become detrimental."
    As Dr. Kruse says' "N-1" experiment for dosage determination must be measured; but how? How red the skin response maybe enough...
  12. Marcus W

    Marcus W New Member

    I'm so confused on the time and distance now. You see Joovv saying 4-6 inches, Mitogen 6-12 inches, and then all these masks which are directly on the skin. "Typically applied to the injury for a minute or so, a few times a week"... that seems SO low, and the studies I'm reading are much higher than that and the 50-100 J/cm2 was optimal for injuries.
    I could be wrong but I thought the Joovv and Mitogen had basically the same specs/power/irradiance/etc besides the number of actual bulbs? What is the ideal distance and dose if "50 or 100 J/cm2 may even become detrimental", that last part scares me especially if it damages the eyes which are so close to the machine.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  13. dosage is a bit like watering a potted plant

    say a medium/large plant needs 5L a week...

    delivering 5L via a pressure washer would cut the plant out of the pot. this is akin to a surgical laser. its still light, but focused and coherent.

    say you dump 5L in all at once (high power LLLT close up) - maybe the plant suffers a bit in the first instance, but recovers by the end of the week.

    much better to drip the water in, this way the plant is using it as fast as it is being delivered. this is how i recommend using light. smaller irradiances (further from the panel) for a longer period of time. this is why our bed is only 5mw/cm2 but yields superior results without the risk of biphasic dose response. this is why it is the choice of kruse longevity farm, paleo osteo, biogen, manchester city fc, and many other private health spas and private customers.
    Sajid Mahmood, mrc and Phosphene like this.
  14. light is no different to wine or whiskey, one is nice, 4 is really nice, but 7-10 and you may just be sick.
  15. Marcus W

    Marcus W New Member

    Thanks for the response Josh. Was that a typo with 5mw/cm2 or did you mean 50mw/cm2? You mentioned that is for your bed but at what distance, time and mw/cm2 would you recommend for your panel (not bed)?

    Dr. Hamblin was one of the researchers involved in the article you posted. I know he works pretty closely with Joovv which they feel the optimal dose is between 50-100mW/cm2. And that's definitely the most studied dose and most the research is based off that dose. The biphasic response makes perfect sense but they had to be either super high (detrimental effects) or super low (little to no effects), and 5mw/cm2 seems to be on the super low spectrum. 50-100mw/cm2 seems to be in the middle with the research to back it up so why not stick with that dose? Time is very valuable, I'd rather use it for 10 min than "drip" it in for 20-30 minutes as most don't have that kind of time to sacrifice on a daily basis. I mean no disrespect I am just trying to clarify all this science lol.
    Phosphene likes this.
  16. not a typo, its 5mw/cm2
  17. with regard to clinical application, many clients are not happy to pay 50+ dollars for 5 minutes in a bed. 20 minutes lying down can do wonders for the body. my experience is that this is more optimal, and James Carroll from THOR agrees, and says the upper and lower limits of effect with longher/shorter doses we don't know yet. for example the NovoThor is 17mw/cm2, our mk1.5 bed is 11/17/23mw/cm2 switchable, and our mk2 bed will be 11/17/23/36/45/56/68/75/80mw/cm2, which is catering for the very "dumb" human trait of "more is better" hint: it isnt.
    Sajid Mahmood and Phosphene like this.
  18. Marcus W

    Marcus W New Member

    Thanks! Could you also please answer the boldened question in my post as well so I know what to use with your panel? Maybe stand 12-20 inches away for 20 minutes or 6 inches away for 10 minutes?
  19. 6" = 7-10 mins
    12" = 12-20 mins
    Sajid Mahmood and Phosphene like this.

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