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Discussion in 'Redox Rx' started by Jack Kruse, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Penetration is a function of wavelength, coherence, time, and the tissue type.
    There are no formulas for calculating these depths. However, we do know:

    Penetration generally increases as wavelength values get larger.
    Coherence of the waveform increases penetration as its beam form narrows into a focal point.

    The Importance of Coherency

    All the photons emitted vibrate in phase agreement both in space and time.

    Tissue type - recent tissue studies demonstrate no penetration of low level NIR energy through 2 cm of skull and brain.

    Near-infrared photonic energy penetration: can infrared phototherapy effectively reach the human brain?

    Irradiance (mW/cm2) is the intensity and power density of the emitted light over time.

    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
    Sajid Mahmood likes this.
  2. correct, and the claims that 850nm penetrates 3cm for example, technically true, does not mean that the entire joule dose gets that deep, as much light is absorbed by the more superficial tissues on the way through.
    enyaw and John Schumacher like this.
  3. Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
    John Schumacher likes this.
  4. Mitogen panels are useful. However, I have not measured these panels, but know which panel I prefer. But I still use both panels, but have them in different places. I use two mitogen in the gym.
    John Schumacher likes this.
  5. Sajid Mahmood

    Sajid Mahmood Silver

    Which EMR Tek lights do you have??
  6. ND Hauf

    ND Hauf Pleb

    Pretty sure Jack and a few members have an EMR Firehawk and have had positive views.

    The Firehawk was going to be my next purchase. I currently use the Firestorm and Firewave by EMR multiple times throughout the early part of the day.
    John Schumacher likes this.
  7. Butters

    Butters New Member

    I have the EMR firewave too, but I havent used it very much until now. I am mainly interested in getting my thyroid up and my eyes back on track.
    Do you guys have suggestions for either one about duration and intensity/distance from the center?
    There is already information about the power at some distances on youtube. But the eyes are a unsure thing for me. Should I let them open or close and which distance to use for which situation.
    I used it at 15cm distance for my thyroid up to 15min. Longer and it gets warm and starts to tingle. I only closed my eyes, no glasses.
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    How about a original unadulterated German sunlight (or wherever you are).
    Helio Silva likes this.
  9. Butters

    Butters New Member

    Whenever I can I do it. But I dont think it is enough to reverse my eye issues, especially as long as I dont have an optimal work environment. I recently heard the story from Jack in one of his last podcasts that he treated a patient with redlight for his broken leg for pain purpose only and the "side effect" was that his macula degeneration completely went away. He mentioned that he didnt even treat the eyes but the body.
  10. In this post I’m referring to the “Firewave” and it is the one from the review posted by Josh.

    However I’m using the Firestorm for red-light therapy. A much better light.

    The firewave’s I only use for lighting at night.
    ND Hauf likes this.
  11. Sajid Mahmood

    Sajid Mahmood Silver

    Is an irradiance of 5 mW/m² to 10 mW/m² enough to penetrate through to the torso, or doesn’t the irradiance really matter for penetration? Do you just need a longer duration with that sort of irradiance?

    From all the information on here, it looks as if an irradiance of 5 mW/m² to 10 mW/m² will give the least amount of biphasic dose response, but obviously a longer dose is required.
  12. depth is determined by wavelength primarily. even near infrared, whilst technically penetrating up to 2-3cm, loses some intensity as it gets to the deeper tissues. say 10% gets to the deeper stuff, that would be 1mw/cm2 if using 10mw.

    clinically i see better results with lower intensities say 15 to 30mw/cm2 for longer periods being the best and safest.
    Sajid Mahmood likes this.
  13. Light penetration is not a function of mW/m² - it is the coherency of the waveform over time into the density of the tissue type.

    Coherence volume (Vcoh) is coherence length (ΔLcoh) multiplied to coherence area.

    For noncoherent light (LED and spectrally filtered light from a lamp).
    When a tissue is irradiated by and LED Lcoh, length of temporal (longitudinal) coherence;
    [​IMG]coh, size of spatial (lateral) coherence; D, diameter of light beam; d, diameter of noncoherent-light source; ϕ, beam divergence, [​IMG], beam spectral width.
    Please note the design of the EMR-TEK Firestorm & Firehawk have focal lenses (what they call COBs). These focus the beam from a 120 angular spread to 60 degrees. Thus raising the potential of penteration by doubling the coherency of the waveform.


    Surface layer of tissue (Δ[​IMG]surface) and bulk tissue (a layer of a tissue in range of mm to cm thickness, depending on the type of tissue).
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    Sajid Mahmood likes this.
  14. Naghman

    Naghman Naggu

  15. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  16. Naghman

    Naghman Naggu

  17. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Bitcoin says Hi.
  18. Going back to the question @Butters asked about eye treatment.
    Kris, the EMR-TEK CEO, says goggles are always required. The goggles that come with these devices are solid black plastic, so no light from the device gets into the eyes.
    Yet, for eye treatment, is it OK not to wear the goggles and for how long? Any takes on that or is it all trial and error?
  19. Correct, studies have shown that a given dose (30J) had more effect delivered at 5mw/cm2 than at 50mw/cm2...

    As usual, the west simply do not understand subtlety
    Erika and JanSz like this.
  20. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

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