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Discussion in 'Educating Doctors' started by Jack Kruse, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. Christina Gagnon

    Christina Gagnon New Member

    Thank you for the Quercetin tip - I have iron overload too. Do you still do phlebotomies?
  2. Inger

    Inger Silver

    I have not done phlebotomies, as my doctor did not notice my iron overload yet. I just go to donate blood as often as possible (4 times/year).
    I have had to self diagnose my iron overload so far with what bloodwork I had and my symptoms and what I have been eating the past years. Doctors here are often not at all knowledgeable about iron dangers.

    I met my doctor today as I was shopping!! I asked if I can come soon and take some iron bloodwork additionally what we did lately, I told him I have way too much iron now, and he smiled and said, sure, you can come! :) :)

    what are you doing for your iron overload? How severe is yours?
    What did your labs looked like?
    How much have you been able to drop the iron and how?
    Do you have any idea what caused your iron overload?
  3. Christina Gagnon

    Christina Gagnon New Member

    When I was first diagnosed (accidently) years ago my ferritin level was so high (can't remember the number) it showed liver damage (at first my doctor repeatedly asked me if I was an alcoholic—I maybe drank a little wine once or twice a year). I had to have phlebotonies 2-3 times a week initially (that would kill most people but not me), until my iron levels were brought down. Now I donate blood every two months or so but I haven't had my ferritin level checked in years, even though I know I should. Unfortunately the cause of iron overload is genetic (the celtic curse) that affects some people with northern European ancestry. It can skip generations too and requires that both the male and female donate that gene. My older brother and I both have it but my older sister and younger brother do not. All of us are carriers so depending on whom they marry determines if their children will display the symptoms. I first learned about hemochromatosis from a wonderful woman named Roberta Crawford who wrote a book called "The Iron Elephant." It has caused a lot of death and hits men especially hard (and at a younger age) because they don't experience menses. One of Robert Crawford's warnings is not to take high doses of vitamin C because it mobilizes the ferrous iron into your organs and causes organ damage and failure. It's very bothersome but has to be taken seriously because left untreated it will eventually kill you. In the early days of autopsy they called it "rusting" because they could actually see organs clogged up with reddish iron deposits. I will try to find my old medical records and get back to you with the numbers.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
  4. Inger

    Inger Silver

    wow.. thank you for clarifying all that. So you have hemochromatosis. I have read there are various types of it too and how it is expressed, there are so many factors involved... very complicated, and many gene mutations are not even known yet....

    I got my iron overload through diet, that is pretty clear to me now.
    If I have any genetic iron absorbing issue I do not know but I rather think not. So far it is clear to me if someone eat close to 2 pounds raw venison/lamb every day for years, they will eventually end up with way way too much iron in their body, if they do not bleed regularly.

    Yes, it is crazy what too much iron can damage.. it really is like "rust" as you say.
    I had no idea one could have too much iron because of diet, before I learned about it this winter.
    Heme iron (the type of iron mainly in red meat) is also very easily absorbed even if the body already have enough iron.
    It is all very interesting, and everyone should know about it, to make sure to not harm themselves, with something so easily preventable.

    Huh, 2-3 times/ week phlebotomy is hard!! :eek:
    But good you did it. The sooner one gets the excess iron out the less damage it will do for sure.
    You should go and check your iron panel soon. Please do it.

    Are you avoiding red meat so far too, and doing other things like green tea with meals etc?
  5. Christina Gagnon

    Christina Gagnon New Member

    No, I don't avoid red meat and I quit caffeine so I only drink herbal tea/coffee. Ironically, when i was at my highest iron levels, I was drinking tons of caffeinated coffee and tea. I do love curry and tumeric though and eat it a lot, and that's supposed to inhibit iron absorbtion, but I think any dietary strategy to keep from getting or treating iron overload, would'nt work.
    Inger likes this.
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Read hypoxia #7, 8 and 9.........it is all there.
    Alex97232, Inger and Christina Gagnon like this.
  7. Christina Gagnon

    Christina Gagnon New Member

    In the 1800s in India, they gave the British troops G&Ts (gin and tonics) to combat malaria. The soldiers didn't like the bitter taste of quinine so a little added gin did the trick - I'm sure they enjoyed that very much and it may be another "poor man's Chloroquine." :)
    John Schumacher and Inger like this.
  8. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Christina, I do not think dietary changes will help if one have iron overload either, especially if the overload is because of genetic mutations or the like. Also iron can be very toxic and with diet it would take forever to get it out. Bleeding is necessary.
    But what I do think is, avoiding red meat and other alcohol(than enhances iron uptake from food) than red wine, green tea and other things that hinders iron uptake to some degree, will help to not load it so fast again.
    If the iron overload is just from excess meat consumption I do believe it makes sense to limit heme iron in the diet and check the iron panel once in a while to know where one is at.
    Funny that seafood has practically zero heme iron in it.. I am so happy about that :) :)
    Alex97232 and Christina Gagnon like this.
  9. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Christina, did you have any symptoms at all before it was discovered you was full of iron?
    If, did they go away after all the phlebotomies?
    Christina Gagnon likes this.
  10. Christina Gagnon

    Christina Gagnon New Member

    I really prefer fish to red meat but where I live it's hard to get anything but frozen fish and it's so expensive. I still buy it but it's not like the great salmon I used to enjoy when I lived in the Pacific northwest.
    Inger likes this.
  11. Christina Gagnon

    Christina Gagnon New Member

    I did have symptoms—in my early 20s (in fact starting a little earlier than that) I had severe migraines. I just delt with them as I could. Later on my skin got really bad (I was diagnosed with rosacea and was told I would have to be on antibiotics for the rest of my life, luckily I didn't follow that advice). Then I had increasing lethargy and maybe a slight tellowing of my skin (in some people this can be quite apparent). I felt so bad considering my age that I went to the doctor and they put me through every possible awful test you could imagine, one of those tests was a blood test that included the ferritin test only because it was included in a lower-cost "bundle." The phlebotomies did make my symmptoms go away and I feel a lot better now. All and all though, I think is has taken a toll on my general health from the iron damge that will probably never completely go away.
    Inger likes this.
  12. Inger

    Inger Silver

    I eat frozen fish too often now. It is fine, I cook it very very gently just a couple minutes on low heat and tons of onions and herbs.. it is really delicious that way and I could eat it all the time :)
    Bonus is onions have lots of quercetine that also prevents uptake of non heme iron.
    Alex97232 likes this.
  13. Inger

    Inger Silver

    What a luck your doctor found out before getting even worse.
    Yes... might be some damage cant be reversed. Or it reverses very slowly, I like to believe that :) The body is amazing in healing itself if we just right out the environment, even if it might take time.
    It is really sad many do not get the right diagnosis and continue to suffer though :(
    Alex97232 likes this.
  14. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman New Member

    Curious what those of us who take low doses of iron for deficient ferritin levels would do in this situation. I take pure encapsulations iron for my ferritin deficiency 3 times a week. Should I be stopping during the pandemic? I've been getting so much sun lately I'm not really worried about it at all, but due to my history in a 5G city, I'm wondering if I should stop the iron now. iron-liquid-120-ml-by-pure-encapsulations-extra4.jpg
  15. Inger

    Inger Silver

    I would not take it Taylor. Eat raw meat and oysters it will give you tons of iron!
    Carpaccio or tartar is very delicious.
    To take iron in pill form is very risky IMHO.
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    John Schumacher likes this.
  17. Hypoxia and the Oxygen Molecule Absorption frequency - 5G’s 60GHz bandwith

    60GHz is the frequency of oxygen molecule absorption. Oxygen molecules have electrons that they share with each other, oxygen is a diatomic molecule. What we breathe are two oxygen molecules bonded together with the electrons that they share.” When the oxygen molecule is hit with 60GHz 5G waves, these waves affect the orbital resonance properties of those shared electrons. It is those shared electrons that bind to the hemoglobin in our blood. In addition to disrupting oxygen absorption, 5G will alter the iron and magnetite function respectively of the hemoglobin and pineal gland. Hemoglobin and the pineal gland have a magnetic compound within them. The magnetic field disruption is already happening, but, with 5G, this disruption will be more seriously amplified. Hemoglobin is a very complex ferromagnetic compound. If we interfere with the orbital spin properties of diatomic oxygen’s (O2) electrons via 5G, our ability to absorb oxygen (saturation) will be significantly hampered, creating slow suffocation. Because of this additional factor, with or without 5G, people should avoid 60 GHz WiFi systems in any case. At 60GHz the frequencies also impair the body’s ability to produce vitamin D and melanin. In this context, 5G and the 60 GHz delivery system is an overt attack on the human body.




    Oxygen absorption makes possible the same-frequency reuse within a very localized region of air space.
  18. @Christina Gagnon - Have you tried Vagus Nerve Stimulation for Migraines?
    Looking Forward...
    Grandpa John
    JanSz likes this.
  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

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