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The 4th most important thing you need to know about diet and fitness

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Barry, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Dali Dula

    Dali Dula Moderator

    Adaptation reduces extreme to normal.
  2. Barry

    Barry New Member

    not quite. My issue is that what applies to our species now has several variations. This is due to adaptation, gene expression and mindset. Ironically, I think you are possibly overlooking the very thing you are focusing on.

    In my opinion, the biggest thing the paleosphere and krusosphere has overlooked is how people have managed to live long healthy lives that don't conform to the "epistemolgic basis of the laws of biochemistry" ... why aren't we looking at the these people ?

    Okay, so the Inuits prove that high fat/zero carb diets don't cause heart disease. Fine. But what about the french village, where the people ate croissants everyday, and never died from heart diseases, not given the same attention ?? What about the italian families that eat fish once a week, yet have never had any cognitive decline or disease and lived into there 90's ?? What about my Irish grandmother that hits 100 next week and is nowhere near senile, yet has lived on diary and starches ??

    I am on the same side as the fence with you when it comes to the biochemistry. Its simply the application and the variation where my thoughts differ. You seem to believe that in order to be healthy, disease free etc that you need to follow the exact ancestral epi species specific way of eating and living. In terms of ethnicity, evolution and epigenetics, how can this not have changed ?? And aren't the people that I just described living proof of this ??

    My 1-4 blogs are just spin-offs of the sort of mindset that this creates. Chasing perfection leads to extremism. There is no perfect. Choice leads to dissatisfaction. Ideology raises expectation. High expectation distances us from happiness. Happiness is the goal.

    The questioning continues, thats all this is...
  3. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Barry, that there are many 100 yo healthy human that smoked all their life does not tell smoking is healthy. It is just some are more broken than others. Jack have said numerous times, he is for the broken ones. Not the healthy.

    Barry what is your point really?

    What do you suggest for the broken ones? What advice do you have for them? There are so many broken these days and it gets more and more. Jack talks to them.

    I really wonder what you are after. I love constructive critiscism but I cannot see it from your post. It is like you are stuck in your own idea. I am just thinking out loud here.
  4. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Barry, that there are many 100 yo healthy human that smoked all their life does not tell smoking is healthy. It is just some are more broken than others. Jack have said numerous times, he is for the broken ones. Not the healthy.

    Barry what is your point really?

    What do you suggest for the broken ones? What advice do you have for them? There are so many broken these days and it gets more and more. Jack talks to them.

    I really wonder what you are after. I love constructive critiscism but I cannot see it from your post. It is like you are stuck in your own idea. I am just thinking out loud here.

    I wonder... I really wonder if you have such a hard time to understand because you are not broken yourself?
  5. Barry

    Barry New Member

    The aim is to be constructive , that's the bottom line . Writing doesn't convey my tone.

    My goals are the same , real science that helps people. I am just looking at it from a completely different angle so my perception is different . I'm not claiming to be right and I'm not saying Jacks perception is wrong. I'm simply thinking out loud like you , but my thinking is just different to most on here.
  6. Inger

    Inger Silver

    I think I got it Barry! :)

    Your perception is different from most of the forum because you are very healthy. That is why you think different..?

    Most on here are very broken that's it. I think I see you now Barry.

    Now, to regain health you need to change things dramatically. It won't work going on like you did before because that is what made you sick after all. But people are often afraid of change. That is when it becomes painful and a horror. When forced. It does not need to be. If we loose our fear for the unknown it is exciting to make changes, very much so. Then we start to feel like flying.. But it starts all - with our thoughts. Like you said.

    And yeah.. I think it is very important to feel allowed to do baby steps. There is only so much we can take, not more.. but it gradually increases. I do very small babysteps all the time. And once in a while a big one..lol. But I have also quite a good health in comparison to many here (but.. when I see what I can reach I am so far from that - this fact makes it only so much more exciting to me). The sicker the more extreme/strict one needs to be... or the faster the healing. Kind of backwards huh. But I guess, when one is suffering grately one might also be more willing to do extreme things to feel well again soon. I hope so at least..

    It requires a lot of willpower to turn the wagon.. when it is heavy. Where does the willpower comes from?
  7. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I like the way Barry thinks........
  8. Caroline Cooper

    Caroline Cooper New Member

    Hi Barry,

    I have enjoyed the conversation you have started. In a lot of ways you are talking about a common problem that we all face. Where do we put our limited time and resources? Chris Kresser talks about focusing on your weakest link
    not focusing on what we might know the most about or have formally studied:


    From your website you know a lot about biochemistry, nutrition, and exercise. You also seem to have an interest in the power of the mind to heal. If we take Chris Kresser's post at face value, it would be of little use to you to focus on these areas for self-improvement. Your conductor has the orchestra playing beautifully in these areas. What are your weakest links?

    Before I came to this forum, I didn't think very much about artificial light, though I knew about its dangers. I just had never done anything about it. (I haven't had a TV in 30 years and I am careful about EMF exposure.) After experimenting, I find artificial light at night does negatively effect my depth of sleep. Cold thermogenesis has had a less positive effect on me in the short term. I can not common on long term exposure but it does fit into what I would like my new life to look like. (I want my next house to be off-the-grid.) I do sleep in a naturally cold room and try not to fear getting cold when I do. My diet has been good for a long time; more seafood is a easy change but I don't go crazy because seafood is not a locally available food in my area.

    I think my weakest link is I work way too much and I don't have enough fun. I also don't "work" my passions. How do I want to spend my most precious resource - my life energy? I only have one fragile life. Do I want to be remembered as a Jimmy Patterson or a Wendell Berry?



    Some of my best work, or most meaningful work, is unpaid work. But I have realized where I am going the cash economic means little. I have decided to sell my business which might take some time. My business is my creation. You could call it a prison of my own making! The only problem is that I will just build another prison somewhere else. Or will I?

    The longest journey you’ll ever make is from your head to your heart.

    Sioux saying
  9. I am more in line with B on this one. . .my spin is this:

    1. When you take the 30K view of your life as a whole, perfect optimal for whatever you think that is - might not be the perfect path for the specifics of your life - the one you want, not the one you have.

    2. Practically speaking, does it make any sense to create stress and inflammation over minute details when there are big low-hanging fruits to pic?

    Everybody chill, thnx!
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I dont disagree........but when you read ask Jack questions.......that is not how most human view their problems or their life. This site is about them getting answers they cant get at the doc.........there in lies the paradox.
  11. Barry

    Barry New Member

    The "Ask Jack" questions are proof of my 1-4 blogs. People don't go on feel, they chase magic bullets, they focus on the tree's instead of the woods and they don't create their own fish bowl.

    For the record, I'm not looking for any fans here. I'm just telling it how it is. That's it.

    I think my view is skewed though in terms of what people are dealing with here. I'm looking at health from a health body and mind. Most on this site are looking at health from a sick body and mind. This means my biochemistry works differently so my points are not equivocal in that sense. Therefore, I question the continuation of this series in terms of its relevance... I don;t think people see where I am coming from, apart from a few and those that have DM'd me.

    So I might just put an end to this, not because its wrong, but more because it is likely to cause more confusion to those on this site than constructiveness
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I agree with Barry..........I dont think your skewed........I think your the pot at the end of the rainbow that they are all striving to find. It should not end...........Never let people behavior's interupt your stream of consciousness........especially when your white hot. If they cant handle it........that is on them. I like where your taking this.
  13. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    What I like about your posts, Barry, isn't about whether I agree or not (often I don't know what I think!). I like that you are articulating a clear position and that you question. I don't want to blindly follow anything or anyone and I like that you come from a 'healthy' position with a combined understanding of the science. I may be trying to make up health ground that you are not, but that doesn't invalidate what you say. I like that you are provocative, too.

    For me, the thematic link between those who 'chase magic bullets' and those who 'create their own fishbowls' is fear. The 'chasing' of an answer (or even believing there is an answer) comes mostly from a place of fear and anxiety. I know that place well. It is perhaps the most toxic thing that we inherit from the CW mindset. And it may be your position of health that means you don't have such intimate experience with this sort of fear. When you create your own fish bowl (as I understand it from what you've explained) it revolves around self-empowerment and self-design, to create something that makes sense and works for you in a positive way. Inherent in that when you are 'broken' means taking a huge leap of faith in yourself. If that isn't something that comes naturally to a person, you have to dig really deep because it will never be encouraged by those who are your medical support out there in the world. It's hard to convey in words what this is like when you are not healthy. You turn your back on everything that is set up to help you and essentially tell them they are both wrong and potentially harmful (and incompetent to help you in the way you now understand you need to be helped). Dr K often says that others in the paleo community struggle to understand where he comes from because they've never been obese. I think the same is true for people who have never had a health crisis. It's hard to make a bridge to connect the positions and tension emerges. For me that bridge is fear and how much it guides what we see, what we can't see, and what we're willing to see.

    I can embrace your position while also wanting to learn and understand more because my life is not a sole focus on my physical health. I was diagnosed with cancer but during the entire thing, I was able to remain authentically grateful and happy, even while scared and sad, to. My fish bowl is constructed in spiritual terms and my physical/medical health resides within that. Learning through Dr K has meant that I have let go of a lot, changed a lot and questioned a lot. But it is a process that is integrated within my larger value system and who I am in a very genuine way.

    Last thought: another reason I appreciate your different point of view is because I, too, hope to be able to sit from a position of total health and re-evaluate my life. I don't expect to always be in catch-up/recovery mode. And I like the view you offer, even if it isn't mine.
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    perspective colors your life.........KiwiLauren paints with that brush.
  15. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Caroline, I agree with Chris in general. He's on a more similar track to Jack though, suffered illness himself, now treats illness. As I've said before, thats not my track.

    There are no weak links, everything counts. I've said this before. Think about it for a minute and you'll get what I mean ;-) And enjoy the journey
  16. Barry

    Barry New Member

    I'm more in line with you too Cavemam ;-)
  17. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Good points, I'm with you there. Embrace the fear and then overcome it.. thats what its all about
  18. Barry

    Barry New Member

    I'm not afraid of others opinion or afraid of taking criticism. My consciousness won't change and I'lll stick to my guns. The problem is more related to the scientific basis of my arguments. Just like the physiology of a cold adapted person versus a warm adapted person is different, the same applies for a sick/obese person versus a healthy/fit person. Therefore, the function and understanding of hormones, cell signalling, partitioning, inflammation, gene expression etc... works differently for me. Thus, what I recommend and what I know works for me may not apply to the biochemistry of people on this forum. So my information is skewed.
  19. prAna303

    prAna303 New Member

    I think this place also need a voice from "the other side". I come from a different world with no illness and a clean plate from the doctors. Have never been sick for a day in my life and i am also a ultrarunner. Not racing anymore, just for the pure love of motion. To have a good dynamic in this forum your voice is needed because with time many others will soon be seeing things more from your point of view. Keep your thought coming...

  20. Dali Dula

    Dali Dula Moderator

    As I have commented before I would never have done what I am doing if I had not become broken. I can only think that given my results a healthy person would become an optimal human rapidly.

    I would also like to say that as a person who has quested spiritually with no impressive satisfaction dropping into circadian life is one of the most profound experiences I've ever had. As I surf the diminishing light of autumn I feel a sense of peace I have never encountered. It's all here if you let it guide youl. I'm not sure what it is, but I am following.

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