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The 3rd most important thing you need to know about Diet and Exercise

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Barry, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Anyone ever seen the movie "Lost in Translation" , cos I think it applies here

    You and others are missing the point I am trying to make. Its simple. Chasing after something that you don't want to do but that you think is good for you is wrong. Secondly, the path to optimal does not have to be the most perfect and scenic route, idealism and perfection are not obligatory.

    Let me clear this up and put it into perspective or "context" as some of you think I am forgetting about, Apparently running 100miles is extreme, maybe it is but am I doing it because somebody told me ? Am I doing it to achieve optimal ? Am I doing it because its good for me and will make me superhuman and live until I'm 150 ?? NO... The reason I;m doing it is because I love it and get immense enjoyment out of it, full stop. This is where Soul and others are misinterpreting what I'm doing. Extremities are deemed extremities by the individual and one mans meat is another mans poison, sure. But the key point to realise is that whatever extreme option you choose should only be done because you enjoy it and feel good doing it. Thats where the Epigenetics come into play. If you're doing it because someone told you it will cure all illness's and make you live longer, but you don't enjoy it, this is where it goes wrong in my book.

    This is where the magic bullet scenario comes into play. Eating something or doing something, in excess and in isolation, never works. Ive posted about this before, nothing is more important than the other, everything counts. So if you think eating shrimp, roe and CT is all you need to do to be healthy, then you're likely to run into trouble. This is what occurs with extreme measures, other important factors are omitted. This is crucial. Like I said in my 1st most important post, "there ain't no"

    Look, serious health issues and diseases needs to be addressed by taking advanced measures, fine. I'm not one of those people thankfully. I admire those that are creating a new normal and making big changes. I'm all about that. I'm not about "mediocrity" or always doing the same etc etc, I think that should be clear from what I;ve already written.

    Understand that I;m looking at this from a different angle here than most. I work in the field and I practise what I preach. Don't hit me with false claims and knit pick at comments. I've looked into all this as much if not more than most. I've seperated the woods from the tree's and I'm looking at the big picture. I know what works for me, i'm doing my own thing and I;ve got the proof to show it. Have you ?? If not, check out your own backyard before you check out someone's else...

    Next round, round IV...
  2. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Will respond before reading other comments.

    1. I think someone said that they felt better on fish roe over the mackeral smootie so that seemed like a more realistic alternative.

    2. I think these more extreme methods are for people who are already sick and in dis-repair. So the Europeans that are eating bread, yet healthy etc. obviously had less (no?) damage. So it's up to the individual to see where they are on this spectrum. This also lends to where Jack states the importance of labs/tests.

    I think that's difficult for a lot of people to have to deal with 'well xyz can eat bread so you're being extreme'. That is also not fair for those trying to correct their own personal health issues. I'm pretty sure your intent was not to be offensive, but rather to 'question everything'. However I do offer the other side where one does 'question everything', but also have to contend with those who are 'lucky' and can 'get away with whatever and yet still be healthy' and for those people that they live with who can 'get away with anything without harm' simultaneously try to sabotage your effort at every step of the way....

    It takes a mental strength and character to persevere through that maliciousness. The good news is of course, one CAN make it through and with everything, there's an end. So triumph results. :)

    I think then once the person has healed themselves appropriately THEN they should be reasonable about their choices and not be too 'extreme'. For example, perhaps my journey is farther along another person's, so choosing to have wine and chocolate chip cookies with a friend last night (which was preceeded by a most excellent fish fry, sweet potatoes and salad), I think that is a choice I can make and live with and I would simply monitor over a period of time how this would affect me. See for me, without testing, I'm flying blind.

    You are correct though about it being a 'fine line'.

    Thanks for bringing up this topic. It's necessary.
  3. ColdBren

    ColdBren New Member

    Both sides of this discussion are amazing. They really pull me. I have found myself under extreme stress trying simply understand how to be optimal....and have fallen very short of attaining it, adding more stress. This stress is, however, completely self induced and i am thankful for every word Dr. Kruse has written and said. My hope is to learn to live by the principles while enjoying it at the same time.
  4. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Souldanzer;45488 wrote: Okay. Feeling called to respond here since raw fish heads have become a food group for me *and* I am European and grew up in Europe.

    You cannot compare European lifestyle with American lifestyle. Allow me to give you an impression of what happened to me when I first arrived at Atlanta airport with my one-way ticket in hand.....


    There was stuff going on everywhere... things moving wherever I looked and turned, voices coming through various speakers, lights going on and off.... oh, right, that's the televisions in every corner, there isn't just one screen, there is 3 in one screens and at the bottom is a rolling text message, and the whole thing gets interrupted by ads every few minutes that are so loud your ears threaten to fail. The pictures on the screens change so fast your brain can't quite keep up and you start to think you're on a rollercoaster. To this day I cannot stand american TV, impossible for me to watch, the amount of sensory input is out of control for my brain to handle at any one time.

    So I'm living in this country now. And some things are very strange to me. Americans have strange houses. They are dark, very few windows and most of them kept with pulled blinds or curtains. They use artificial lights instead, day or night. There is no difference between night and day really in this country. Where I'm from (Germany) we keep our houses bright during the day and we dim the lights when it gets dark. We don't wear blueblockers but the lighting we use is gentle and warm. Not bright white which is what I kept experiencing in the U.S. I had the hardest time outfitting my first apartment with lamps b/c I couldn't stand the bright white light at night. TV time is limited and they do not run in the background. We either watch or we don't. There is no 3 screens in one with rolling text at the bottom. Sensory input is a lot more limited.

    The list goes on. What I'm saying is that life in Europe, or Germany in my case, is a lot less "mismatched" than life in the U.S. if you compare it historically at the same time. Is this changing? Yes, it is. There is a big concern about youth obesity in Germany right now. But this is years later than the problem started in the U.S. We also still cook in Europe. Lots of my friends here plain don't use their kitchen. They go out to eat or eat read meals. My mother cooked for the entire family, three times a day, every day. It was homemade food and that makes a lot of difference. Yes, Europe eats a lot of bread, Germans in particular, and I get that no bread is "optimal" but preparation methods do matter in degree of damage grains might cause. You probably won't find a more traditionally prepared bread than German bread and yes, we do eat it that way.... wonder bread is pretty much unheard of. Most people don't like it. American bread and German bread are two entirely different things.

    We do "sit in ice" occasionally. Maybe not as literally as Dr Kruse is suggesting it. But there is a tradition to ice bathing in Europe. It's getting lost now, the younger ones don't do it anymore but Roman Baths still exist. My parents and sister love to frequent them. They include cold baths. My dad takes cold showers every day b/c he believes it will make him healthier. As a child my parents took me to these baths and I was participating in the cold dips. We also don't need our homes to be heated to 72 degrees in the winter. We heat just enough to be comfortable with a winter sweater.... not a t-shirt as I see people do in the U.S. . As for the mackerel heads... well, maybe not entirely so but the food we eat is much more traditional. My mother eats raw smoked fish, she loves liver, the cheese we buy is raw and of good quality.

    br />We're much more active in Europe. If we can walk the distance, we will. No reason to break out the car. We carry home our groceries. The kids spend the day outside. "When the street lights come on" was my curfew always while growing up.

    So, maybe with this picture in mind you will understand why Europe as a country has healthier elderly than the U.S. Unfortunately, technology and such is catching up even there and so Europe is starting to experience similar problems at this point in time. My parents are both in their sixties, and they are pretty darn healthy. Not in Dr K's terms.... but they don't have any major ailments. My dad is now developing T2D and my mother is pushing a low-fat high carb diet b/c she learned in the media that this is recommended. We are getting off the path now.

    It is and it is not. That entirely depends on your perpective. Btw, I think I'm the only one who does this every morning (I do it at night, too, most days, just to make this even a bit more extreme.... :p)

    What happened to me in life is extreme. Extreme circumstances require extreme measures. I should not be alive anymore on many counts and I still am. I am doing better than ever with my eating disorder so what do I really care if what I do is extreme in some peoples eyes. NOT doing what could save me from certain death appears extreme to me. I do not know your story, Barry.... may I suggest that by your adventure with sports you are a pretty healthy person at this time, in Dr K's terms? Do you wake up every morning wondering if you can get out of bed? Do you spend the day with your eyes shutting despite having slept 9 hours the night before? Does your head throb all day and your cognitive skills go bye-bye almost entirely? Can you still think of two things in sequence? Do you ever go for a walk and are not sure you will be able to make it back you feel so weak? Have you *ever* felt like life is just flowing out of you and not being replenished.... and that your body and soul is on the way "out"?

    I think it's great that you can do things the non-extreme way. It's great you are that healthy and your body thrives on cooked fish fillets a couple times a week. Does my body? No. I've tried it. It got me nowhere.

    So, what appears extreme to you might not appear extreme to another person.

    I'm sure I could. And just getting out of my comfort zone might not be enough to save my personal life.

    I entirely do not agree with that. Do I take a risk? Yes, I do. I'm aware of that. The risk of not risking right now is bigger. Whether or not failure will cause you stress is really dependent on your mental way of dealing with failure. I fail every day. I succeed more than I fail, however. B/c that is how I organize my life and mind. You need to adjust the challenge to the person's skills and then there will be oodles of success. It's just like training for a marathon. Don't start with the 100km in one go if you've been a couch potato for the past 10 years.

    Nope, you're not the only one. In fact, I questioned that the paleo approach was the right thing for me to do after my skiing accident 4 months ago. I read as much as I could and basically came up with seafood being brain food. Some of Dr K's comments on blogs, some of it of my own reading. So then I started eating fish to heal my brain.... not having a clue of what was about to be revealed. I ate it every day for three months almost exclusively before BG 4/5/6 ever happened. I question things in my own way. If I think the risk to reward ratio is beneficial then I try and watch. I stick with what works. There's some things that Dr K tells me to do that don't work for me, so I don't do them (like not overloading myself trying to do all at once :eek:) I question a lot of other things. In Life. These Days. Some of it relevant to Dr K's work, some of it not. It's gotten me to a very personal, a bit unusual lifestyle. That some people would call extreme.

    Questioning you: Why not strive for the best of the best if it is available to you? Are you staying within your comfort zone?

    I guess I'm a bit.... different from most people. I thrive on extreme. My personality is made to be extreme. So, to quote someone else from this forum... I fell into this like a rock star into a pile of cocaine :eek: It's the equivalent of my AN personality applied to getting healthy instead. A much better purpose.

    Congrats if you made it this far. I guess I had a lot to say :cool:

    Souldanzer, you are so inspiring and a good role model. (Sorry if that embarrasses you or puts too much responsibility on you). I would put you right up there with Dr. Terry Wahls too. I am so lucky to have access to these forums and website from Jack Kruse because it has helped me tremendously over the last 7 moths.

    I am constantly re-wiring the way I think too. For example, I know that another argument against people saying that someone else is 'extreme' as you (and Jack) pointed out that perhaps it's the other person's views that think it extreme. Also, the context/framework from which it is coming from might be the 'extreme'. Like Soul pointed out, life in America (and most places in Canada...but even still probably not as bad) is extreme. Lights at night and coffee and doughnuts at night is extreme....not going to bed early and taking cold showers and eating properly....sorry.

    Thanks all for this thread, it's a good one and makes people think. Very good replies too!
  5. MJ*

    MJ* New Member

    I think that's a bummer about Ivy, she's awesome and that's a loss to have her gone. I guess we are all different. I don't take it as pressure, more as encouragement to go further, like when you are doing something physical and your training partners help you and lead you to the next level, but no one can say what gives another person stress! So if it stressed her out, that's too bad, as Ivy's contributions will definitely be missed! I hope she reconsiders at some point...
  6. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Oooooo...just remembered another thought that Dr. K advocates. Find your inner guru!! (Well, I sort of said this by saying to get testing to find out your indiv. needs). Anyways, if you end up being your own guru this happens sometimes only through the route of what seems 'extreme'. For example...you might try mackeral smoothies 'just b/c someone said it's healthy or will fix your brain problem'. Then you might stumble upon that fish roe does the same effect, yet it's much easier, less messy and tastier...you experiment... So the initial push out of the gate is much more explosive and intense and ...extreme. You then come to realize personal tweakings you might take here and there...but always being sensible.

    Again it's ALWAYS a 'fine line'. How do you know one drink doesn't lead to two, or three, or oops you're drunk...etc.?

    K, I think I'm finished my thoughts on this for now. Sorry for the spam. lol
  7. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    Haha...thought I was done.

    I am a person who likes the forums and finds comfort. When you are living (soon to be finished with current living situation) with people who do not support you, mock you and ridicule you for making an effort to optimize (or whatever) your life...then knowing and reminding oneself of other like-minded people can help during times of stress. I am strong and would most likely stay the course even without these forums...but this really makes things easier and LESSENS the stress. People here understand and have similar goals that I have.

    Too bad for Ivy.

    MJ, keep up the good work! You're so amazing for visiting with Jack!
  8. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I think the government is going to find out about the high we get from Inger's cocktails and outlaw them...
  9. ColdBren

    ColdBren New Member

    LOL Nonchalant.....no doubt
  10. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    Its so relative. You make me want to find very neolithic blender and suck one down for solidarity!
  11. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    Great thoughts from everyone...and I do understand the point about stress. I see this in my equine therapy work. People may yearn for change but are not ready to make it. They want to be healthy, or fit, or creative or stress free or any number of things that they don't feel they are at the moment. Stressing about how other people take their journeys of change and transformation do not help at all. There is a huge growth industry around personal development etc. A lot of it's based on selling people a "dream" of how life can be different....think yoga, spirituality, health, fitness etc etc. What is missing from all of this is a key component you can't really MAKE somebody be different by telling them to change.AND people usually talk about change for a long time before they make any.

    What "wakes" us up and lets us begin to change is so individual and is so unpredictable. Given the same information one person will be inspired and change profoundly and another will feel inadequate and attacked. Those responses don't change the information....they just point to how different we all are. As Soul pointed out JK's work is not aimed at fulfilling a marketing plan...it's aimed at finding the people that are willing and able to jump on board because it makes sense to them and feels right. And this group will have a range of approaches within it. I'm sure there are many people who read and are influenced by the forum who don't post...that's one approach and another is to write your heart out everyday....there is no right or wrong about any of it.

    Barry, it sounds like you are very comfortable with your choices....that has to be an important part of remaining stress free. People who compare themselves to others negatively will always have stress around difference.....but learning to celebrate our own process no matter how that appears to others is something that can't be handed out. It's up to each of us to get there on our own.
  12. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned


    You forgot the mackerel heads :D

    Look, serious health issues and diseases needs to be addressed by taking advanced measures, fine. I'm not one of those people thankfully. I admire those that are creating a new normal and making big changes. I'm all about that. I'm not about "mediocrity" or always doing the same etc etc, I think that should be clear from what I;ve already written.

    What is clear from what you have written is that you are having trouble putting yourself into someone else's shoes and taking their perspective for a moment. Being the runner that you are, you and I have a similar personality trait. You can't run 100mi without a certain degree of will involved. I am 99.9% sure, if you woke up one day disabled, not being able to get out of bed, sick like a dog, wanting for everything to be over NOW you feel so bad..... and then someone came along and gave you the tools to make yourself better (I assume you'd go see a doctor probably... my point) you'd change what you are saying here radically.

    My English skills are leaving me for the last sentence but yes, I've done my work. I've been sick my entire life and I've been disabled for most of it. I have been looking for a solution for more than 20 years to my problems. Please explain to me what you mean with if I have proof to show it? Would you like me to send you over my medical records for the last 20 years..... I got plenty of proof that what I'm doing right now is working for me. If your sports accomplishments are your proof that things are working for you..... I never doubted that. I said it's not working for me. I will not achieve any sports goals at an emaciated weight of 70lbs (I'm not short either) with the bones of a 90year old. I need to get to a point of health first before I will be able to do any of that.
  13. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    my fear exactly....
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    our perceptions create our reality.....my reality is not everyone's.......but i know where optimal lies......if you dont want it it is OK by me.....even if you come close your still in a better neighborhood than you were in a SAD. My illness made me wide awake to a new reality. Im just the guy with the flashlight........
  15. MJ*

    MJ* New Member

    Being around like minded people is so important if you have a certain goal you want to attain! No one else will understand exactly like others who are going through the same things, or similar things to you. Thanks for your kind words too, I am no more amazing than anyone here, you're all very cool people...

    I do understand how life and the requirements for our interests can add to our stress...the key is to know how and when to slow down, how and when to speed up and how and when to take a break if necessary...

    LOL Nonchalant no one mentioned gettin' high from those...:eek::cool: hahaha soon everyone will want one!!!
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    MJ this is something you commented to us in the seafood joint.......it got me thinking about meetings for our members......before I thought it was a pipe dream but maybe not?
  17. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    Our factor x meet up in Boulder was great.... so much to talk about and sharing info about local resources.
  18. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Good thoughts all 'round. Very interesting, and better than any TV I can think of!

    This group is the only group I have ever wanted to be a part of. Well, maybe the WPF folks, but I see how it has led me here.

    Primal eating, never knew what to call it, but I knew I wanted it because it made sense.

    And how to measure my body's reaction to what I've put into it, and what my lineage has handed down to me.

    I knew someone had to see it from the "30K" perspective and show a way forward thru the confusing, side-tracking, fad-ridden paths.

    This is the place.
  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Give me your tired sick and weary and let me try to teach them how to stop being sick n tire of being sick n tired. I think the people who realize paleo is only a small part of the story wind up here. I really believe that. There is a lot more frontier for health outside of the current meme that is paleo.
  20. MJ*

    MJ* New Member

    Definitely good thoughts all around! This is better than tv, lol!!!

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