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TENSEGRITY 9 is LIVE. Welcome comments here.

Discussion in 'Mitochondrial Rx' started by Jack Kruse, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I thought your blog was awesome NeilBB but maybe you're right when you told me people just don't get it............
    Shijin13 and NeilBB like this.
  2. Neil, though you have 'moved on' a kind of ploy I do not like anyway when I said it was a bit 'obvious' I meant a bit obvious to me. If you read some political websites like www.counterpunch.org what you are saying is 'obvious' or 'un-exceptional' but I agree probably not to MOST people. It's a good effort but I don't know what you expect lots of plaudits I dont' know.

    I don't like this 'moving on' business seems a bit typical of 'throw away world' throw away things and people not wonder we have mounds of trash everywhere. I hope and imagine Dr Kruse don't feel 'abused' by me. That is your perception it is certainly not my intention. I imagine he is a bit 'bigger' than someone who 'moves on' in a huff. Lame.
  3. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Very Well said Neill....
  4. Caroline, do you 'like' everyone except me. I hate to say it but that kind of makes me question the 'group(ie)' thing again. What is so bad about a bit of doubt? What is so awful about a few tough questions? Your 'behavior' is making my point more compellingly than I ever could. This constant need to 'belong' and to 'agree' seems 'cultist' to me
  5. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    Pat .... That says way more about you than it does about me.

    "my constant need to belong" and to agree .... Seems cultist ..... Those are ridiculous statements - you don't know me!

    Jack has always told us to question everything.... That is what you seem to be doing but you have an edge to how you are doing it that I totally disagree with.

    Neil has suggested that you go to NOLA and meet Jack in person . .. and then maybe you will understand what we see.
    Shijin13 likes this.
  6. Caroline, I have no problem with Dr Kruse. None!! If I have a problem it is more with some of his 'followers' including yourself who seem weirdly 'threatened' by a few questions. Anyway I better stop now I have done enough damage for one day probably mostly to myself. But I notice you 'liking' every single post except anything I say and you 'like' anything that is put up against me. This just seems 'weird' behavior I mean what exactly are you trying to prove or are you 'afraid' of? I am not tying to pull down anyone I am a happy Gold Member and look forward to whatever and wherever Dr Kruse is going.
  7. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    so - just to be clear .... you want me to "like" your posts ? ..... please allow me to do some critical thinking of my own.
    NeilBB and Inger like this.
  8. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    Haha, the 4C value was picked out of the back of my head, but what a happy coincidence (or maybe it's my subconscious speaking to me somehow :p)

    Also, important note that the words: "Warmer water takes less space, shrinks etc" belong to Patrick.

    Jack's words are: "The infrared heat loss occurs to the surrounding water and the water than condenses as this heat is added"

    Which refers to the addition of IR energy to the water, which is why I had to point the distinction between "amount of energy" and "temperature".

    Anyway, I'm pretty confused as well, but here's my current understanding ....


    The strength of inter-molecular Hydrogen Bonding (stronger is better) between water molecules in bulk distilled water is related to H-O-H angles. In general the larger the H-O-H angle, the stronger the intermolecular Hydrogen Bonding network.

    Note: this H-O-H angle is around 104.5deg in gaseous water, and 106.5deg in solid ice. In general, cooling increases this. Ref -- http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/water_properties.html

    Water with a stronger Hydrogen Bonding network tends to have lower density because of how they are arranged in icosohedral structures (there are many variations) -- http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/icosahedral_water_clusters.html

    This requires a picture to illustrate. The low-density structure is the one on the left. This arrangement gets less dense the flatter the individual water molecule is (and a higher H-O-H angle implies that the water molecule is "longer and flatter")

    (Sidenote: the same applies for the tetrahedral ice structure, in which further cooling happens and the H-O-H angles sometimes get up to 109deg)



    Now, this is the part I do not understand: What happens when you add infrared energy to water in the context of the protein filled networks of the body?

    This is the context that Jack is talking about, and this context means that adding heat (IR light), you form charge separated water.

    Charge separated water becomes problematic for the standard interpretation of water as I described above, because it essentially becomes an ionic plasma, and we know how plasmas are affected by tons of different forces (info from Tensegrity #5, and the Electric Universe Model).

    Here's just one point. Recently, I was looking at this paper 'Large Supramolecular Water Clusters Caught on Camera - A Review' -- http://www.waterjournal.org/volume-6/ho

    There are many points made in that article, and I don't know yet what to make of them.

    Two points which stood out:
    • These water clusters form permanent dipoles that can last for months :eek: if not disturbed

    • Quote: "Shui-Yin Lo attaches special significance to the double-helix clusters (“double helix water”) found in some preparations of clustered water, which he believes – in the absence of real evidence – to be the precursor the double-helix in DNA and to be the basis of the acupuncture meridians of traditional Chinese medicine"

    That second point immediately brings this picture to mind:


    In other words, charge-separated water, formed by virtue of heating by IR light, forms an ionic plasma, clusters together to form charged filaments, and then experiences a birkeland current with z-pinch, threading the filaments together to form condensed structures.

    These structures would have never been predicted by studying bulk water. You need to know that charge-separated water exists in the cytoplasm next to hydrophillic proteins for this link to be drawn.

    At this point, I don't know what to conclude yet, because I need to drawn upon the knowledge from the rest of the Electric Universe model and other knowledge we know about astrophysics, and then marry that with the knowledge of biological structures in order to figure out what exactly "condensing through heat" means for the body as a whole.

    I'm confused further by the fact that I just dug up all this stuff about Actin and Integrin networks (charged-separated water everywhere!), and that the Proton story is not fully explained (protons control ionic flows), and that I just found that whole Proton-Couple Electron Tunnelling (PCET ) mechanism of enzyme function, which by the way, extends to all peptide chains, DNA included, and which is affected by both Proton and Electron and Photon movements (the last 2 which are directly affected by entanglement effects).

    So, nope, no conclusions yet o_O

    I'd like to point out though, that you can clearly see the fractal design at work here -- we're seeing pinched helixes of water delivering the energy both within and between pinched helixes of elastin that makes up the collagen networks, which again the collagen networks tend to look like filaments that spread out in a way predicted by a birkeland current.

    (Note: the z-pinch isn't the primary effect, it's the presence of Birkeland currents that gives rise to the fundamental homology in these fractal systems. Z-pinches likely happen when the Electromagnetic mediated forces are stronger then the physical tensile resistive forces of the filament. ie: large polypeptide chains are "too stiff" to be z-pinched by the ionic currents within them, but water clusters flow "free and easy" to be pinched into helixes)
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
    Shijin13 likes this.
  9. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    Regarding mass equivalence, the key point that stood out to me was Jack asking us to read the equation backwards in EMF2 -- http://jackkruse.com/emf-2-einstein-meet-leptin/

    What happens in disease is that c^2 drops, as both electron tunnelling speed and rate across mitochondrial membranes drop.

    A drop in c^2 would require an increase in mass for the Energy term in the equation to remain constant, which I personally understand to be the "Total Energy" within a body, as opposed to the "Energy Generation Ability" that is represented in biology by the c^2 term.

    To be honest though, I am less concerned with fully understanding this equation; in many ways I just trust it to be a true fact that has been proven multiple times in experiments. I am more concerned with the clear observations made between energy generation inefficiency and cell swelling.

    Total Sidenote

    As usual, I tend to try and make things more complicated for myself if the speed of light was actually manipulated by the body for functional purposes.

    Rince we are literally sending photons through the body, and since all the parts of the body are connected by mediums which allow waves (aka: photons) to propagate, why can't the body modulate optical density of a particular region to cause time dilation and "give a protein more time to sense the environment"

    Is relaxation of optical density of transmission mediums closer to that of a vacuum the the characteristic observation of a state of "increased protein synthesis"? I can think of ways in which systems could purposefully exclude solutes from a particular region, to create a large region of only EZ water for environmental sensing to happen. (Obviously this state can't persist too long)


    Finally, thanks for all the questions :D. I love it when the community raises points that make me ask myself stupid shit and prompt me to bug @Jack Kruse even more o_O:p

    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
    Shijin13 and caroline like this.
  10. prAna303

    prAna303 New Member

    Not that i really know if this applies, i only sense something that can give us clues...

    Shijin13 likes this.
  11. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    I hope you are beginning to see Ling's brilliance from the 1950's now. His association induction hypothesis explains the four critical cell physiology subjects:

    1. Solute Distribution (atomic architecture)
    2. Cell Volume Control (thermodynamics)
    3. Membrane Permeability (The antenna)
    4. Resting Potential ( capacity charge)
    Shijin13 likes this.
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Photocatalysis is the most important point of this guys talk and sidesteps it because of his bias. That is what you are sensing Prana. Your intuition is spot on.
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    DHA is the key to eukaryotic photocatalysis, especially in brain and gut.
    jwhb77, Shijin13 and (deleted member) like this.
  14. Brother John

    Brother John Silver

    A metaphor for this site as it applies to myself and I believe many others: A one room schoolhouse with grades 1st through 12th. However the teacher only speaks at the 11th and 12th grade level. If I'm in the third grade and the answer is given in 12th grade terminology.... Well yes I was given the answer but it's akin to giving the answer in a language that I do not yet understand. So, No I was not given the answer!! (ie the answer was not one I could receive)
    The question on the hi fat lo carb diet was (for me) that your statement was a clear contradiction in your diet book and recommendations. Then the response was all science speak from you and the other Contributors that responded. I appreciate All who responded but I could not receive the answer.

    When I say I didn't get the answer or the question was not answered, please do not infer that I didn't try to glean the meaning from the responses. That would be lazy and I ain't that..

    Their are some foundational concepts or principles within your blog and quilt and one of them is that electron dense foods are superior contributors for the energy needs of a human being. Your statement regarding hifatlocarb appears to be a big contradiction of that concept.

    Sure, the rules always have exceptions And That Is What I Was Hoping to Learn About!
    Brother John
    PS This is written to Jack but if others think they can respond clearly without pages of dense science, please give it a shot!
    PSS For those that want to say: Get an education so that you can follow pages of science talk: Reflect on this: All of the present day science that is getting turned upside down with new discoveries etc has many pages of science talk to back the failures up.
    The real deal as has been pointed out by the Thunderbolt Project is that "observable results" need to match up to the theories" Jack has said as much too. So when we get into pages of explanation on a theoretical level, (I'm sure this is big fun for those that speak those languages so fluently!) and the rubber meeting the road is seemingly missing, then I say you are on the slippery slope of ..... whatever you want to call it...
    Peace, Love, Understanding.... and the Power to create those things Be With You!
    Brother John
    Paleodocteur likes this.
  15. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    Thanks Yew and Prana - the fog is starting to clear a little now and you've given me some avenues to explore. I'll have to explore the links later when I have more time.

    So if I remember correctly, flatter bonding angles create less dense water structures intermolecule - but flatter angles also create shorter and stronger bonding distances intramolecule. Hence the density of a structure of molecules is lower but the density of each individual molecule is increased. Still pondering . . . but if we have two things going on simultaneously with water density, on two separate scales, it could explain my confusion.

    Also, thanks for challenging that c2 is constant in mass equivalence - it does make sense if it isn't constant - and since electrons and photons can be controlled/affected by magnetic and electric fields it is reasonable that it is not a constant within the medium of the body.

    Just a quick dimensional analysis for my own peice of mind . . . .

    Energy = mass x speed of light x speed of light
    [Joules = kilograms x meters/second x metres/second]
    >>>[J = kg x m/s x m/s]
    >>>[J = kgm/s^2 x m] . . . . . and since force = mass x acceleration, kg x m/s^2 = Newtons
    >>>[J = N x m] . . . and since work done (energy used) = force x distance
    >>>[J = Nm]

    . . . . Wife just asked what I was doing, I said "Oh, just a quick dimensional analysis of Einsteins theory of relativity" hahahahah!!! sounds way more impressive than it actually is :D

    Right, better eat some salmon - I think I need more DHA
    Shijin13 and Josh (Paleo Osteo) like this.
  16. Valerie

    Valerie New Member

    Can one get a substantial amount of infrared light in the winter (Los Angeles) by laying out in the sun, or is it a waste of time.
  17. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    you're not interested in infra red from the sun.......you're have to get it from your mitochondria. You get UVB from sun to make sulfate........but in LA YOURE IN hellhole of EMF so none of that is critical truthfully. Your context determines what is critical.
    Shijin13, David L and Danco3636 like this.
  18. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    Just finished listening to the Nov webinar Q&A . . . . the analogy of wave, wall and particle as sound, wall and soccer ball is so good. I'm beginning to visualise the cell and mitochondrial membranes (or any barrier which may consist of matter or distance) as the wall now and trying to integrate that thinking with this from above . . .
    I really do need to get the Ling and Becker materials:oops:

    So . . . . if we can convert particles to waves and back again . . . . and waves can act non-locally . . . . does this lead to the comment Dr. Kruse made in the Q&A webinar about the possibility of things materialising out of nothing? (particles materialising from waves?)

    I'm also reminded of the excerpt from the Resonance video about the harmonic assembly of DNA in a seperate test tube from existing DNA in the presence of Schumann Resonance. It would seem that the Schumann resonance excites the fluid into the right kind of coherent domain - that would begin the process of assembling molecules in the right sequence - as each layer of the coherent domain changes the total resonance, it attracts the next layer to itself. Order from chaos/entropy.

    A page I found on Tensegrity in Biology http://www.tensegrityinbiology.co.uk/biology.html

    I cant say I'm assembling this puzzle in any linear way - I'm just assembling various parts of the jigsaw that seem to fit together - not throwing any pieces away that I cant make fit(understand) yet - and looking forward to finding the pieces that tie all these small pictures together to make the big picture. As Jack said in the webinar - sometimes its about perspective, sometimes that puzzle piece is rotated or flipped upside down so I dont recognise it yet.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
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  19. I want to sincerely apologize to the Forum and specifically to Jack, and also Neil, Josh, and Caroline. Hope I have not forgotten anyone. To explain but not to excuse I was really freaked out by my situation in LA and in a kind of daze lashed out in all directions. Partly denial I want to cast doubt, do you REALLY know etc

    One thing I feel quite embarrassed about now was making this distinction between the "Electric Universe" theories and Einstein, quantum etc. I was really just flailing and looking for a way out. Incidentally I only discovered the "Electric Universe" the day before yesterday. Anyway the big picture is starting to sink in now and I feel I have a better perspective on the whole thing

    I am trying to form a plan to leave and go live in the West coast of Ireland. Actually I also want to thank Jack and some others for the introduction to the Electric Universe. I find it really inspiring and very interesting. It sort of opens up things I thought were closed down and settled. And speaking of that I DO appreciate Neil blog a lot more now in light of that. Sorry Neil. Yesterday I was 'crazy' and just wanted to lash out and hurt because of my situation.

    Anyway I don't want to go on too long, it's difficult but I feel I will get through this. I feel Jack is a very trust worthy guide and I look forward to more study and learning and most important I suppose changing my location and living situation. The last few days I feel de-hydrated, bloated and not at all good, it feels like it could be EMF or who knows maybe me being suggestible. But that is not important what I feel is important is to keep my eyes on the prize and I think you will not often (hopefully never) see me like this again. Sorry to everybody especially Jack as Neil says he does did not deserve this
    Inger and caroline like this.
  20. ssj3

    ssj3 Silver

    Well I am having a hard time following questions/answers regarding the blog with all this distortion (maybe consider taking this to another thread). But what was the follow up in regards to this:

    My first thoughts were regard to recruitment of satellite cells... in terms that you would need environment to make them activated to
    Paleodocteur likes this.

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