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Teach me how to ask questions that don't lead to a dead end.

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by Souldanzer, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned


    I need to learn to ask better questions.



    I'm running in circles.... every doc is giving me a different answer including Dr K. If I follow the trail of answers I get back to where I started and around and around I go. I know I need questions not answers b/c I'm caught in a dead end.



    How do I find the correct questions? What are the questions I need to ask? I am convinced I am in this spot b/c I cannot find the good questions. There's a chance I have the answer yet I cannot reach it b/c I'm not asking the correct questions to find the path to the answer.



    Please teach me how to ask questions that will encourage doctors to mindfully inquire.
     
  2. Huck

    Huck Silver

    What answer are you looking for?
     
  3. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    I'm looking for questions.... questions that will lead my doc's to look for better questions of their own.
     
  4. Huck

    Huck Silver

    But you have already asked questions and gotten answers. So evidently you didn't like those answers, so what answer do you want?



    (I'm just suggesting you try coming at the question from a different direction)



    Instead of "What causes me to feel tired all the time" maybe "Doc, if I suddenly started having normal energy, what changes would you expect to see in my labs"?
     
  5. ATL_Paleo

    ATL_Paleo Gold


    Based on your many comments, it seems your intuition is spot on. Frustration, if channeled correctly, often leads to breakthroughs. You seem to be ready for a breakthrough. ... However, my view is that you might be suffering from analysis paralysis. Will more "better" questions really provide new info?? My hunch is no. Thus, my suggestion would be ... you probably have the best solution for you in your mind. ... Its time to trust your intuition, and make a decision ... and use your impressive skills to make a plan ... and then make the plunge (of a decision) and take action.
     
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Bingo on the last two......ideation without execution leads to deletion of the concept.
     

  7. This is good . . . . . going to try this myself!
     
  8. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    You guys are right. I have a pile of messy answers. And I'm trying to sort through them.



    It's also true that in my heart (no pun intended) I know how I possibly want to go about this.



    The problem actually is the plan. I cannot come up with a plan b/c I'm in the control of other people's answers.... which I'm realizing now, is nobody's but my own plan which creates the basis of my problem. So I actually keep running in to the dead ends b/c other people operate under their answers and theories, while I'm looking to execute my own plan.... and they don't agree. But I need them for execution.





    So I guess my question really is - how do I execute my plan if it doesn't operate under the answers/theories of the people who I need for this to be executed?
     
  9. skline@peak.org

    skline@peak.org New Member

    Hi, Soul Danzer



    I am frequently stuck. I am growing more aware of the power of mistakes. Mistakes indicate that one is actually DOING something, instead of getting stuck in "ideation", as doc suggests.



    So long as the mistakes aren't too costly, the more the better, because if one can freely make mistakes one gets answers from the real world instead of pallid abstractions from endless theorizing.



    To find out where a path leads, go down it. One foot in front of the other. And I try to cultivate a constant awareness of whether the path is leading somewhere one might wish to be, or not. At the very least, trying this and then that makes one familiar with the immediate terrain, so one can wander around it more easily.



    Maps vary according to who made them. While certain major landmarks may accurately appear on many maps ("COLD!"), the local paths and obstacles vary according to one's history and surroundings. I've followed too many "one size fits all" recommendations and landed flat on my face too many times. Even a slow learner will eventually figure out that's not the way to go.
     
  10. NickieG

    NickieG New Member

    Souldanzer....could it be that you are attempting to listen to too many "experts" whose theoretical underpinnings are in conflict? You might choose one expert you intuitively trust and stick to that road.



    I know for myself I initially was attempting to follow Dr Kruse ideas at the same time I was attempting to follow Jon Gabriel's work...they are different and I felt like I didn't know what to do cause I was getting myself stuck between to seemingly opposites. I choose Dr. K. and life has been less stressful.



    Good luck to you.

    Nickie
     
  11. youthfuliz

    youthfuliz New Member

    Is it because you haven't made up your mind on what is the best plan to deal with your problem? In that case, spend more time to study the problem, understand the answers of the several experts you consult with - obviously some may be more conventional, some more cutting edge, some suggest more invasive methods, while others more conservative... after you understand where each of them come from, weigh the pros and cons, think about the risks you take and the potential benefits... then choose the path that you feel most confident about, and give it a try. It's your body, it has to be your decision. Then just tell the doctors you have thought through and picked your plan, ask them to help you accomplish what you want to accomplish. Maybe some of them won't be your friend... but if you prepare your reasoning well enough maybe they will. Or if you trust your own informed decision enough, find another doctor who will understand you and help you.
     
  12. Mackay

    Mackay New Member

    Some problems can be solved in a flash of insight, other problems require constant tinkering and require action so you can make mistakes and correct them to move forward. Choose your path. Stick with it for a year and tinker as you go along. If you were my patient that's what I would council.



    The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. :D



    or



    It's impossible to steer a parked car. :D



    or



    If you waited for all the lights to turn green before you left your driveway, you'd still be there. :)
     
  13. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned




    Yes, there's conflict within the expert's opinions. Some of that conflict is coming from the source, me. I have told my story too often, I skip things, I get bored and annoyed, I don't want to recall it all. I've decided that I'm the only expert I'm going to listen to for the final decision though I do need my docs to help me execute my decision. I am resisting the fact that once again I'm the only one who can help myself and I have to figure it out all on my own. I'm a bit exhausted and somewhere I wish I would find that doc who I can just hand it all over to and figure it all out for me. Not going to happen.



    youthfuliz;36302 wrote:
    Is it because you haven't made up your mind on what is the best plan to deal with your problem? In that case, spend more time to study the problem, understand the answers of the several experts you consult with - obviously some may be more conventional, some more cutting edge, some suggest more invasive methods, while others more conservative... after you understand where each of them come from, weigh the pros and cons, think about the risks you take and the potential benefits... then choose the path that you feel most confident about, and give it a try. It's your body, it has to be your decision. Then just tell the doctors you have thought through and picked your plan, ask them to help you accomplish what you want to accomplish. Maybe some of them won't be your friend... but if you prepare your reasoning well enough maybe they will. Or if you trust your own informed decision enough, find another doctor who will understand you and help you.


    I think this is where I'm at though a bit messy. I've decided on the doc I want to work with for now - my first cardiologist, the one who found the PFO. The drawback is that I can't hand it over - still got to watch out for me special needs b/c of my unique history.




    I think this will involve both. There were a few flashes of insight by different docs on my journey.... they all needed to happen to put the picture together. Now I'm in tinkering mode and I'm not liking it. B/c it requires patience that I don't have primarily b/c I'm not feeling well and want for it to all done and over with. Tired of witnessing my life go by. Once I'm done with the tinkering I'll have to make a decision and that will probably include a degree of "not sure" and deciding anyways. That's okay. I've had to do that before in life a few times and so far so good :)





    I'm impatient. And I'm having one of those "growing up" experiences... which I know I should be all grown up by now but life didn't go that way for me. I'm having a hard time going through this on my own.... my family is entirely not supportive of any I am doing currently, my friends are on overload, and I don't have a doc that I trust to figure this out for me. So, in the end, I'm going to make a huge decision pretty much on my own here that will affect the rest of my life, and then figure out how to get it executed.
     
  14. colleencoble

    colleencoble New Member

    Really, it's good that YOU are taking charge of the decision. I fought my way back to health myself and found the answers myself. You know yourself better than any doctor.



    I have a PFO also. I've never done anything about it. It was found when I was pursuing trying to find a cure for my migraines and there was all the hoopla in the news about a PFO link to migraine. Then I found the REAL cure, bioidentical hormones, and I've never done anything about it. I don't have high blood pressure though and I eat very healthy so I'm not worried about it.
     
  15. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    Thanks, Colleen.



    Ever considered that maybe the PFO could cause the hormone imbalance? 80-90 percent of all patients who get the PFO fixed report elimination of migraines. This is anecdotal and they haven't reproduced this result in a controlled trial. Depending on how big the hole you've got all sorts of stuff going (or not going like 02) to your brain that shouldn't go there. Dr K explained to me that low O2 will mess with your hormone levels b/c your brain can't function properly on low O2.



    I know you don't have all "parts" anymore so for you BHRT might be the optimal solution. I don't just have migraines from this. I have TIAs, stroke (people can't decide which one), decreased cognitive function, etc.... whatever you want to call it I guess. I'm non-functional. Replacing the hormones would do part but it wouldn't make up for chronic low O2 and the damage that comes from that.
     
  16. colleencoble

    colleencoble New Member

    I'd for sure get it fixed if I had all the problems you have. That sounds awful! I had a lot of cognitive things but once I got the hormones fixed, that all went away. I can think again which is pretty great seeing what I do for a living! :) When I went to the cardiologist he rolled his eyes when I told him I wanted to check for a PFO because of the migraine stuff in the news. This was about 7 years ago, I think. He was floored when he found one. It was hilarious. But they weren't fixing them then unless you'd had a stroke or could get in a clinical trial. And then I read The Migraine Cure and by golly all the symptoms went away. If the migraines hadn't abated, I would have been the first in line to get it fixed. I've never had a stroke or anything like that. It sure sounds like something you need to get done asap. But you know your own body best and will know what to do. I know there are several options. Will be waiting to hear what you decide. It's always scary to think about having something done to your heart.
     
  17. colleencoble

    colleencoble New Member

    I just looked up my stuff again. I have a mild PFO and the shunting from right to left only occurred when I coughed. I bet yours is way worse than mine.
     
  18. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest


    here's my 2cents. take it for what it is my opinion, nothing more.



    you know what you want to do. - I've seen it in pretty much all of your replies. so here's what I would do if I were in you're shoes. I'd sit down w/my docs and identify exactly what I want to do and why. Then ask them point blank if they will actively participate in the ownership of what I'm trying to solve. If they're not willing to participate, I'd ask them to provide explanation - in words/meanings I understand. then ask, why their solution is different from mine - I'm trying to understand - you see. b/c a doctor-patient relationship is about understanding, and facilitating health. my doctor should be there to help me get where I want to go. if he/she can't/won't do that - then I find some one who will. I'm paying for their services and expertise. If they're not willing to step outside their comfort zone to learn and become a better doc - why would I want them treating me. Time to find someone else if that's the case.



    After 10yrs of searching for help - I took ownership of my health. you've done that too Soul - your challenge is building the doctor-patient relationship - such that both you and the docs trust each other. go w/what you know is right. if you've got the right doc - he/she will be ok if you push them outside their comfort zone b/c you're making them a better doc. sometimes it takes something difficult to get us to step outside the status quo - and sometime for docs its the PITA patient who keeps pushing. keep pushing forward.
     
  19. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    Oh, geez, you nailed it Shijin. PITA patient I am ;)



    I think you're right that I need to keep pushing for what I need.... but my issues have been spread over a collection of specialists by now and realistically, I won't find that many docs who are willing to work under my ideas. I also don't feel like I have the time to keep looking for the "perfect" doc - I won't ever find that doc. So I think it's going to have to be a give and take a bit on both parts.



    Part of the problem is that I'm not a doc. So even if I do all the research I do.... I'm always the one who doesn't have the context to go with things. I realize this is where the team work comes in to place. I will see if my first cards is willing to take this path with me and I know that my PCP already is on board - he's done a lot for me already.



    I'm still wondering about the asking good questions issue. It appears that sometimes when you ask the good questions, docs get offended instead of inquiring.
     
  20. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned


    My first echo showed a small PFO to one cards and a significant PFO to the other one. I have just received communication from them that they now agree that my PFO needs further evaluation. That is NOT what I was told in the appointment. CYA here we go. As long as it works in my favor.
     

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