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Take It Slow

Discussion in 'My Optimal Journal' started by yewwei.tan, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    @lohd2015 The article you cite is true. ;)

    However, the accurate observation is that "DHA and iodine seem to occur together naturally". I will bring up selenium too since it is often mentioned.

    This is true, whether it be DHA found in eggs or DHA found in seafood, and it seems like the more DHA there is, there is also naturally more substances like iodine and selenium.

    However, we must know which way the lines of causality run. For example, feed chickens more selenium, and they suddenly have more DHA, 'Supranutritional selenium level affects fatty acid composition and oxidative stability of chicken breast muscle tissue' (Pappas et. al., 2012) -- http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0396.2011.01152.x/abstract

    Sidenote: while this study looked at breast tissue, I wouldn't be surprised if you could create artificial "High Omega-3" eggs by force feeding chickens more selenium. Is this "better"? ;)
    In other words, more selenium allowed the chickens to store more DHA. The same likely applies to iodine.

    The way that we should be thinking about this is that iodine and selenium are needed components to stabilise DHA. This doesn't say anything about the absolute amounts of DHA which should be consumed by humans.

    What it does say is to prefer natural food sources of DHA to artificial ones, which I agree with.

    Also note that the side effects of extra iodine, be it from seafood sources, or artificial supplements like Lugol's solution, can also be significant.

    The starkest examples are obviously with artificial supplements, whereby iodine can be obtained in truly supra-physiological milligram amounts, to which some people on this forum have reported symptoms as bad as atrial fibrillation. I highly doubt that eating seafood can lead to such crazy symptoms, but I will not rule out the possibility either.

    Note that I am not stating that supplemental iodine and selenium are not to be used. I've seen people test coherent for selenium supplementation at times. Paleo Osteo also notes that extra selenium (ideally through diet) when dealing with inherent PUFA excess can be useful, and I agree.

    The fact remains however, that substances like selenium and iodine are also subject to heavy endogenous regulation. Some is absolutely needed, and too much is bad.

    As usual, ideally one should obtain these elements from natural foods, but also don't be under the impression that you have to consume large amounts of such substances for good health.


    DEXA scans and Body Image

    Personally, I do not judge what other people do with their physique. We can make subjective criticism about what "looks good" or not, but I do not care for what other people want to do with their bodies.

    The only purpose of me bringing up the DEXA scan comparisons were for as objective comparison as possible using similar methods of testing.

    We know full well that DEXA consistent brings up body fat percentage levels that are higher than other testing methods (visual, calipers, bio-impedence, Bod-Pod, hydro-static weighing, etc ...). If I went by visual or caliper estimates, I'd easily be <10% body fat. Saying, "X person is 16% body fat" based on a visual or caliper estimate is not comparable to my 13.6% measurement on DEXA, hence why I need other DEXA results to benchmark my own results.

    This is only important to assess where I stand with regard to likely unhealthy limits of body fat. It was EXPLICITLY an endorsement that those levels of body fat used in the comparisons are not sustainable.

    @Josh (Paleo Osteo)'s comments about unhealthy body image are understood, but those have to reflect objective criticisms, like lack of postural stability or unhealthy methods being used to attain such goals. I hold no ethical or moral judgment against such methods. All I do is know when I am personally at risk for falling into such issues.

    Sidenote: and yes, I know PaleoOsteo personally, and follow him and his colleagues for tips of how to improve my movement deficiencies (to which there are a few disastrous ones ;)).​

    As for my current body composition, it was achieved "naturally" in the sense that there was no explicit restriction or modification in behavioural patterns aside from those aimed at pursuing better health. Example: I shifted my eating window far earlier in the day, because I found later meals to be bad for my sleep and body composition, and that had the effect of getting to my current lean state. The PUFA depletion experiment also had the side effect of fat loss. I count these as perfectly normal adaptations (based on coherence testing).

    Sidenote: I am not saying that people should follow my strategy of eating earlier during the day (which naturally results in Intermittent Fasting BTW). Other people, Paleo Osteo included, find that some (some!) carbs in the evening can help to improve sleep. This is a common enough observation, and I will believe in what I see.​

    Again, no judgment. Just observations. Stay entertained :rofl: and informed :glasses:

    lilreddgirl, lohd2015, seanb4 and 3 others like this.
  2. practical and pragmatic as always :)
    Shijin13 likes this.
  3. lilreddgirl

    lilreddgirl New Member

    That's where I messed up when I did my inutitive PUFA depletion diet/fast - boiled oatmeal n blueberries IF diet - 3 years ago... didn't 'listen to my body and I HEARD IT TOO GRRRRRR' and add in fat or other substrate (in fact dropped oatmeal carb load too :( by not boiling the oatmeal anymore so just dry grain ) after some weeks when environmental stress was also on back on a sudden rise. My unbelievable gains in health - never felt so good as during that time esp liver energy - went kaput after awhile with problems ever since. Now 3 years later still working on healing... well at least it may be possible :)

    Glad to see Yew is not doing what I did. Looking to see how well he preserves his gains and/or progresses with them. Thanks Yew for sharing so much.

    Still mad at myself some intuitive healer I am :p I heard my conscious and ignored it! I am lucky to still be alive gggrrrr way luckier if I get another chance for my previous 'perfect' health. Babysteps...

    While on subject of intuition I intuitively ate 2 small pieces of fig and date/nut meld at Whole Foods today. Low grade depression and increased tension on liver meridian of past 2 days resolved in 5 min... opposite reaction of last time I had carbs ( not based on natural desire)... context of carb use is intriguing me... intuition seems well tuned
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
  4. lilreddgirl

    lilreddgirl New Member

    Why would marine algae not have enough iodine as they used to? o_O My guess is they still would because iodine is in the ocean where they live... any indication that that wouldn't be the case anymore?
  5. lilreddgirl

    lilreddgirl New Member

    RE: physique .... How can we add fat to our bodies in a healthy way? esp the kind that gets distributed mostly not in the stomach area...
  6. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    my thoughts on this come down to the efficiency of your mitochondria to use both carbs and fat, within the oxidative phosphorylation within the mitochondria. @yewwei.tan has a better grasp on this, but as I understand it comes down to how pyruvate is used in the ETC and your ability to use both cytochrome 1 and 2 . the Leptin Reset is supposed to help you do this. I do think there comes a point though everyone has to n=1 this. not everyone runs well in ketosis. I don't. I've tried it 3yrs running and it tanks me, even with the sun gazing and grounding, and minding artificial light exposure. Yet when I push seasonal carbs uptoward 40% or more, and I reduce fat and protein I feel better, sleep is better and I'm loosing weight again. oh and there are days I'm just doing rice and green veggies

    my fat intake is limited to my am coffee - and is coconut "crack" creamer (made w/o eggs) as I'm dairy free/egg free right now as part of my 4mth hack my PCP has asked me to do. I continue to hack different things, in an effort find my "perfect" zone. The one interesting thing that has occurred since starting my current hack - no desire for chocolate...
    SFBaySwimmer, seanb4, nicld and 3 others like this.
  7. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

  8. lohd2015

    lohd2015 New Member

    I am thinking about all the radiation pollution from Fukushima contaminating sea water. I have no idea how that may or may not affect marine algae biology, but instinctively I would think they have to compensate somehow, since water has memory (does sea water have memory also?)

    That actually brings up another question: would non-native EMF from coastal regions affect marine algae and other marine life forms?
    lilreddgirl likes this.
  9. lilreddgirl

    lilreddgirl New Member

    Thanks Shijin13 :) I kinda get what you are talking about here re: including fats in the diet. Me personally I do and always have instinctively craved fat and not sweets. But when I have a lot of UV I tend to want some sweets and get angry (serotonin flu) excluding them. The Leptin Reset BAB actually worked for me to get me on a regular and fulfilling eating schedule from something like anorexia... at that time I was in a weird phase of not eating for days and carb binging. But I did miss out on health benefits by not hearing/understanding about including carbs in the summer... so I had low seratonin angry mood bouts and stayed lean, leaner than I liked... I ketoed 2 summers so I can relate to keto-no's...

    My question though was about how I can add fat to my body ;) like gain weight! And I don't want just ripped muscles, I want to add real live fat and distribute it other places not particularly my belly... I wonder if adding estrogenic foods in my case might be safe/a benefit ?
  10. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    Have you read @Hemming 's journal? https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.p...-weight-from-the-other-end-of-the-scale.7553/ he's been working on recovering to a normal weight.

    You may want/need to increase carbs with fats together. and by carbs I'm talking seasonal carbs if in winter - squashes, sweet potataoes, and stick with coconut oil, butter, and duck or bacon fat.
    lilreddgirl likes this.
  11. lilreddgirl

    lilreddgirl New Member

    Thanks! Yes I've read his journal... hope he's doing well :)

    re the foods well
    Coconut oil keeps me lean so I dropped it into winter. Butter is everyday for sure and sometimes bacon fat... somehow those all seem to be recommended for 'losing weight' too not for gaining. I eat a lot of cream everyday now but not a lot of carbs...

    I didn't know squashes and sweet potatoes were seasonal thought they were fall foods and drop off in winter? Squashes I doubt will increase my fat anyway, they seem 'light' unless I poured sugar on them lol... -- but maybe sweet potatoes would, though they don't seem seasonal and give me a 'you ate sugar' feeling ?

    I'm with greens, onions, and mushrooms now but those definitely don't add body fat. Maybe winter time is not the time to think about gaining fat on my body anyway, unless I want to break circadian rhythm which seems to get me bloated and more susceptible to colds...

    I think adding in some natural Omega 6 nuts along with the sweet potato idea can work, but maybe wait till summer and till I've had my other health gains. This site may not be the place to find info on how to add weight either ;) it's usually something like eating soy or estrogenic products that seems to work for women on other sites...
  12. Arclite

    Arclite New Member

    Almost all heavy cream in the US contains Carageenan, a polysacharide extracted from seaweed. It is a suspected carcinogen and likely GI irritant so I would strongly caution you against its use. Additionally, while most authorities continue to assert that animal fat is largely saturated, this is no longer the case where animals have been fed diets high in polyunsaturated fats. Thus lard or bacon grease will likely have similar lipid breakdown to corn or soybean oil.
    lilreddgirl and yewwei.tan like this.
  13. nicld

    nicld Gold

    There are some creams that do not have any of it in there. I can get Organic Valley Heavy whipping cream and a local one.
    endless likes this.
  14. lilreddgirl

    lilreddgirl New Member


    I also consider that inflammatory A1 rather than safer A2 casein issue with US cream, though there may or may not be that much casein in cream compared to milk... I would much like a grassfed A2 Jersey cow - hopefully Jersey's are A2 I heard they are - or imported yoghurt/cream/milk source.... I had some Jersey cow grassfed whey 'Nature Source' I think but Wholefoods took it out now. I noticed Dr. Kruse had 'heavy cream' as an ingredient in his cookbook so I rather recently added it back in to my diet...but more in the form of yoghurt and sour cream. I seem to tolerate it well if I haven't been excluding it and am not feeling low/sensitive with the immune system... I did notice the difference with the A2 vs A1 sources when I was in a lower immunity feeling state (I will be more likely to catch a cold/flu, or worsen symptoms of an existing one).

    My cream doesn't have carageenan ... but I do :) well actually I have all natural Irish moss/sea moss that it's extracted from soaked and sitting in my fridge now... I wonder why carageenan extracted from it would be carcinogenic but then there are lots of reasons for that aren't there... extraction process?

    I used to not eat pork either because of not being happy with what it was eating... Dr. Kruse kinda got me off that with his approval of bacon (I think because of the benefits of sulfur it contains if I remember correctly ) and not worrying about nitrates and nitrites added (though I've at past times thought those caused anxiousness and racing thoughts for me, even the natural sourced celery ones... that was with salami though, I'm not noticing the same with bacon).

    I doubt the bacon grease has a similar breakdown to corn or soybean oil even in this state - but that's just a matter of 'taste and feel' for me... I can usually 'feel' something like corn or soy especially if I haven't been eating it... but the bacon causes me no issues that I noticed. I still tend to buy the 'uncured' kind just to maybe get a little less preservatives I won't like on it...

    as far as pork meat though, the pastured pork I get from Bi-Rite, a specialty store in SF tastes Incredible without any seasoning. The pork shoulder is the most affordable at 6.99 lb. It tastes nothing like regular pork roast (which I rarely eat -only when it is offered to me). They sell the lard from the pastured pork too, but I didn't really like the smell and taste of it when I tried it... I cook everything except bacon in Kerrygold butter.

    I'm glad that I seem to be able to include some of these possible inflammatory ingredients without much problems... for me it seems the benefit is outweighing the cost as far as some of the US dairy and bacon.
  15. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    Re CT:

    I have been struggling with dry mouth for years now from what appears to be an over activation of SNS and underactivation of PNS. It had gotten a lot worse since I started daily CTing (1 year ago). I had noticed my dry mouth is a lot worse for the rest of the day after my CT sessions. I have just done over 2 weeks without CT and just had a cold bath now and my mouth is instantly dry.

    This seems to suggest, for me, CT is having an overall stressful effect on my system. In people with strong PNS maybe this isn't a problem, but for me it appears to be.

    On the other hand it has benefited me with reduced palps and gastroparesis.

    This makes me think is it sacrificing one area of my health to improve another (hormetic)?
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
    vangirl likes this.
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    no it means your mitochondria on one place lags behind others......% heteroplasmy = disease.
    seanb4 likes this.
  17. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Time for nicotine and methylene blue experimentation.

    seanb4 likes this.
  18. Danny

    Danny New Member

    Hi Yew! I hope you are well. Question for you... looking back do you think quercetin was helpful with your progression? I'm trying to decide if I should wait out the food allergies as they are lessening sans supplements or should I tame the beast while doing the quantum stuff?
  19. similar (less extreme) PUFA elimination experiments are also working for me, further south of melbourne, heading into winter.
    all i can say is that when your experimental data doesnt match your theory, maybe its time to rethink your guiding theory :)
    Cpt.Tired and seanb4 like this.
  20. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Wonder what method you are using to figure this out?
    I prefer blood testing.
    That test is available in your neighborhood.
    One of your neighbors did that test and found this:


    Looking at results above one would think that calculating Omega3/Omega6 ratio is good tool to use when trying to misdirect someone.
    At the minimum, there is little information in that ratio

    Last edited: May 20, 2016

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