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Take It Slow

Discussion in 'My Optimal Journal' started by yewwei.tan, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    Arachidonic Acid (AA)

    I have contended that excess PUFA is not helpful in mitigating stress, which basically describes the context of 99.99% of the people on this planet right now (myself included). If there's anything PUFAs are good for, it's "shutting down the system as safely as possible" for the very natural purposes of hibernation.

    While AA seems to be essential in small amounts, deficiency is very unlikely. We're much much more concerned about excess rather than deficiency.

    Peter @ Hyperlipid was saying exactly this 7.5 years ago, with all reasons as to why endogenous production of AA (from LA) is going to be able to provide any required amounts, and why almost any dietary template will provide the needed building blocks -- http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2008/06/efa-deficiencies.html . I agree with his assessment, including the assessment about DHA needs. Reading the entire post is highly recommended.

    As for the damage that excess PUFAs (AA included) can cause, I have to give credit to Haidut for doing a good summary -- https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/a-must-read-pufa-primer-the-haidut-edition.8033/

    If n-6 is in excess, then DHA's and EPA's displacement of other n-6 PUFAs is what I personally consider to be a general benefit of these n-3s. Most people will have excess n-6 in their body, but this is of course, varies with the person. I have already discussed what I consider to be reasonable n-6 blood profiles in previous posts (though the main metric is likely metabolic rate and therefore stress resilience)

    And if people want to bring up terms like "Peat-arian" as a way to label another group as being inferior in some way (as has been done in this thread), I don't give a fuck :rofl::rofl::rofl:. I want good information, regardless of the source, and Haidut has provided good information.​


    Emotional Stress

    First, how the hell did this come up? :confused::rofl:

    Regardless, it does provide an opportunity to talk about more generic, as well as share some personal information.

    It was @Josh (Paleo Osteo) who made the comment something along the lines of, "interpersonal family shit is a major driver of stress in all humans".

    Agree. Stress is stress, regardless of the source, and so many people receive way too much stress from the relationships in their lives. The impact that this has on health status must not be under-estimated, and Josh will agree that he's seen many patients fail to recover precisely because of this reason.

    I will highlight this fact, and encourage people to look for proper ways of resolving such issues.

    Some people will take the hard stance, akin to the typical, "break up with the bastard already" line, but I don't like such advice. It assumes a level of autonomy which many are not lucky enough to have. Examples: married with kids needing support in a bad relationship, being the kid stuck in a bad position, not enough money, restrictive cultural norms, etc ....

    Sidenote: If dealing with tactical information is your thing, then maybe 'The Psychopath Code' can help you out -- http://hintjens.com/blog:_psychopaths

    The only advice I will put out into the world is the same stuff I usually say: Derive entertainment from your current situation, trust in your own Authority to figure something out, and start working on whatever you deem to be the next best step (which may mean "doing nothing")


    As for my state, after leaving home 8 years ago :ninja:, and only having a brief 7 month period in 2014 back with family for awhile, I can sure in hell say that I much (much!) prefer being 2,000km away from anyone who can be described as being my relative ;).

    This is purely a product of Good Fortune, and I know/knew personally more than 200 people from my (fucked up :rofl:) youth whom are not fortunate enough to be blessed with the conditions that allow me to do what I do now in relative freedom.

    Asian culture is a scary thing ....

    upload_2016-1-24_12-22-36.png upload_2016-1-24_12-22-48.png upload_2016-1-24_12-23-0.png

    Credit to PaleoOsteo for linking me to the lulz :rofl::rofl::rofl:, but it is also True :tears::whistle:

    There is good reason you don't see many (if any) crazy long-haired Chinese guys running around on alternative health forums like this, doing their own independent research and gunning for their own well being. I can guarantee it's not an issue with the language barrier, and has much more to do with the Cultural Conditioning context of their environment, which makes independent health pursuits impossible.

    When I say "impossible", I mean it. Not everyone is lucky like myself to be 6'3'' by the time I was 15, growing up in a foreign country (Singapore), with facial features not typical of a Southern Chinese, with above average athletic ability, with a heretical personality that could cut through cultural bullshit, with enough brain power to think for myself even during disease states, with a liberal father (and his family's crazy tales of ocean crossing, starting with grandma before WW2), with a controlling tiger mom (to see clearly the disease of cultural conditioning), growing up with privileged kids (to see the craziness of materialism), but with enough money to never have to worry about poverty (and I never worked at minimum wage -- got out of home at 17 and worked as a software developer at the wages typical of software developers) ...... and many more .....

    All are advantages that give the personal narrative of, "I will be unique and work for myself". Miss one of those advantages and I can't do what I did; my brother isn't faring as well (7 years younger, age 18, though he is lucky in having no major health problems as of yet).

    Side narrative :rofl:. When I was young, my Dad's friend from Israel came to visit. The following ensued:

    Dad's Friend's Child: (climbs up to a ledge about 5 foot high)
    His Dad: Comon, jump. I'll catch you.
    Child: (jumps)
    His Dad: (steps aside and lets son fall to the ground)
    Child: (*cries* :tears:)
    His Dad: Don't even trust your father!

    Me (thinking to myself): Lesson Learnt :whistle:

    Conditioning is powerful, and this applies to any form in which it exists, be it growing up with religious dogma, living in a slum, having a controlling spouse, being subject to advertising for the latest fashion trends, joining your buddies at the gym, being stuck on a busy street where noise disrupts your sleep, being "enlightened" by some guru to "become one with the universe", feeling bad because someone at work said mean things about you, wanting to fit into a Quantum Health Group ;), etc ...

    No one is going to avoid this, and not all conditioning is bad, but not many people find the ability to be independent enough to pursue what they need to pursue (including health). In that sense, I do not judge anyone who is doing what they are doing.

    For myself, the only thing I can thank is Luck, and the only thing that I can hope for is an entertaining ride in living whatever life I am designed to live.

    For everyone else out there, all I will do is give advice when asked, and when it is within my ability to do so.

    Sidenote on Environments (and the weather)

    Now back to more mundane personal topics :D, a large part of the environment environment is something which I cannot account for.

    I felt horrible living in Melbourne city, as well as the urban suburb of Coburg North (10km north of Melbourne City), but rapidly felt fine during my 2 day trips even further South to Torquay where PaleoOsteo lives. I also found a decent sense of mental clarity along with the inability to gain weight while on a 2 week trip to Tokyo, Kyoto, and Osaka, despite pigging out on all sorts of deep fried foods :rofl:, coming back to Australia with no negative repercussions.

    Of course, I decided to settle here in Cairns, which I almost immediately decided upon after coming here once in mid 2014. The 1.5 years here have been very kind to me.

    Despite all the above, there is certainly an unknown factor at play. There were periods of months in Melbourne (I was there for 6 years) where I felt good, though it was mostly bad. Nothing in my patterns of behaviour can explain this.

    What is certain however, is that there are global Planetary weather effects that affect each person in a different way. You bet that a conjunction of Mercury and Jupiter is going to affect the Sun, and if that can consistently be observed (based off OLR anomalies) to create Earthquakes on this planet, that it's going to affect the people living on this planet as well.

    ie: Sometimes shit just happens. We should try to be resilient to anything that the environment (planets included) can throw our way. Nature was not kind to the ancients -- http://tanyewwei.com/blog/ancient-civ-adv-af/

    endless, jwhb77, seanb4 and 5 others like this.
  2. ThErE ShOuLd Be EvEn LeSs UV iN tOrQuAy WhAt iS gOinG oN?!?!

    jwhb77, lilreddgirl and Shijin13 like this.
  3. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Nice :) I always listen to my cravings... when they are about food in season where I live ;) The cravings tell me something for a reason I guess!
    I think when we are aware of our bodies it will sure show us where to go :)
    lilreddgirl likes this.
  4. Inger

    Inger Silver

    How cool is that :) Thanks Jack! In Norway they have lots of mountains too and almost everyone goes for vacation to the mountains to climb or for skiing... or just spend time on their cottages up there. And they come down so tanned...lol Optimalbound can sure confirm this! At least that was the way it was when I grew up. Have not spent too much time in Norway the last years but I guess they still do it.
    Optimalbound likes this.
  5. lilreddgirl

    lilreddgirl New Member

    maybe you have really low EMF and awesome air quality? or maybe there is a planetary magnetic health spot there ? lol :D o_O curiosity about the curiosity strikes again
    seanb4 likes this.
  6. exactly my point.

    if it were wholly a UV story then this would not have been the case.
  7. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Maybe in the end it still comes down to be an all UV story....... because... the other factors that plays a big role in how well we are able to assimilate UV
    like population density/nnEMF... magnetism... etc etc.
    it might not look like that on the surface, but when we dig a little deeper it is? Just my thoughts tho.....
    seanb4 likes this.
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    i dont think so........there are several key factors that are correlated novelties that are critical to get correct
    seanb4 likes this.
  9. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    PUFA depletion going a bit too successfully .... :ninja:

    Still losing weight despite being already lean. Today about 73.4kg and slight over a 75cm waist measurement.

    When I was last DEXA scanned, it came back at 13.6% bodyfat at 75.588kg, with 65.289kg lean mass (including bone) and 10.298kg fat mass. I have no idea how much mass I have lost since that time TBH, since I actually weighed in at about 74.4kg that morning, and took the DEXA scan about 3 hours later after having drank some water.

    But let's assume a reasonable 1:1 p-ratio (lean to fat lost), and assume a full 1kg loss without taking into account hydration levels (which actually skew my new results to be even leaner). Say I've lost 1.0kg, and thus 0.5kg fat and 0.5kg lean mass since then, putting me probably at around 9.798kg fat and 64.789kg lean mass right now, which is 13.1% body fat.

    For comparison, that's Jamie Alderton at what is normal physique competition levels of body fat, measured at 10.8%:

    and Alberto Nunez at some stupid stupid lean level at 6.2%

    Berto is known to be one of the leanest of the lean. His pics at the time for ref -- http://fitoverfat.com/wp-content/uploads/alberto4.jpg . That is definitely not something that can be sustained healthily :whistle:. Even that 10.8% body fat figure I consider to be pretty much unsustainable long term (which is why those competitors don't stay that lean year round)

    Whatever, I'll be close to those levels if I continue to lose weight, so it's time to both eat more and add in more fat :rofl:. Still low fat BTW, like <10% calories, or at most 30g of fat and probably at least 3,000kcal a day :rofl::coffee::zzz:. LOLOL, welcome to days of waking up to 3-4 eggs and 500g of rice :whistle: (500g raw)

    As a final aside, it was also the experience of one guy on the Peat forums (user 'Zachs') who seemed to improve his metabolism drastically during a 3-month no-fat PUFA depletion diet, and then suddenly could eat the same amount of food (also 3,000+kcal) on a think it was a 40% fat diet, with up to 10g of PUFA.

    Unlike me, he had a lot of weight to lose, and lost 25lbs during his 3-month no-fat diet, and got into a decently lean state (looks to be only a couple percentage points higher ). I was already decently lean at 75.5kg to begin with, and thus 6 weeks on a PUFA depletion diet was likely more than enough to bring my PUFA levels down and metabolism back up.

    - Zachs Initial post -- https://raypeatforum.com/community/...y-be-accomplished-in-30-days.4954/#post-60930
    - Zachs current diet (which is a lot of food ....) -- https://raypeatforum.com/community/...ssible-to-ditch-the-starch-s.6876/#post-83455
    - Zachs pictures after PUFA depletion, and on the high saturated fat diet. He is clearly not as lean as I am, but is clearly considered pretty lean by any healthy standard -- https://raypeatforum.com/community/...ssible-to-ditch-the-starch-s.6876/#post-86049

    Seems like in Zachs case, after initial PUFA depletion and "fixing of the metabolism", the body can much better deal with incoming substrate while maintain a high energetic state. Seems to be the case for me as well .....

    Anyway, I shall add some fat :p, just because I like eggs, and should probably slow down my current rate of weight loss. Note that I am not increasing fat because I somehow feel bad with the near-no-fat diet. Hence, I will retain a lower fat template for the next 1-2 months and then re-assess.

    Lahelada likes this.
  10. shah78

    shah78 Gold

    Believe me, I've been a big fan of Physical Culture ever since I watched Sergio Oliva beat a then 19 year old AHHNOLD back in the 1969 Mr. Olympia....But really, these DEXA videos remind me more of Joan Rivers plastic surgery reality TV shows. These men are SICK! Like anorexic teenage girls. WOW! What am I missing! :)
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
    Lahelada, Mystic Rose60 and Inger like this.
  11. Inger

    Inger Silver

    I think it does not look pretty at all.... in fact it looks pretty unnatural and sick somehow :rolleyes:
  12. shah78

    shah78 Gold

    Jamie(video #1) looks "fabulous" at 10% body fat. Three months later: "Auschwitz" with muscles.
  13. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Yeah... from the point of a woman... really ugly...lol
    I do not get the point in having very little body fat... I meat... i do not think it is healthy.. and pretty it neither...hmmm..
    nikita and Mystic Rose60 like this.
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    when you go to lean = LR = anorexia.........FYI
    Lahelada, Mystic Rose60 and lohd2015 like this.
  15. lohd2015

    lohd2015 New Member

    I am reading this thread with increased fascination. However, something has been keeping me up at nights, it is what Dr. Kruse said about the protective role iodine plays in DHA in our bodies.

    I did some googling this morning, and found this informative paper on iodolipids by Venturi:


    Here are some excerpts from this paper that I can understand:

    "Our research group suggested that iodine and selenium played an important role in protecting the fragile membrane of PUFAs, proteins and DNA in primitive algae from oxidation (Cocchi & Venturi, 2000; Küpper et al., 2008; Venturi, 2011; Milczarek et al., 2013), and for the same reason, these elements are also important in human brain evolution...
    In an evolutionary sense, iodides are the most ancient and powerful antioxidant (Packer, 2008). As such, they are the oldest defence mechanism against radical oxygen species (ROS)...

    In the PUFAs, the presence of a double bond between two carbons (or carbon-carbon double bond) provides them with the possibility of changing their molecular structure through enzymes such as phospholipases, cyclooxygenases and lipoxygenases, etc. The resulting substances, called eicosanoids: prostaglandins (PG), leukotrienes (LT), lipoxins and tromboxane (TX); and docosanoids: resolvins, protectins, and maresins, are powerful lipid mediators that produce specific actions in the organism; they organize inflammation, hemodynamic, immune response and the repair of tissue (Figure 2). Many PUFAs cannot be synthesized by animal organisms and are considered ‘essential,’ and therefore should be incorporated into diets. These are: linoleic acid (C18:2 n-6), omega-6 and alpha-linolenic (C18:3 n-3) omega-3, arachidonic acid (AA) - omega - 6 (C20: 4n-6), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) - omega -3 (C22:6n-3). These PUFAs are incorporated into the phospholipidic membrane of all the cells of an organism. Omega-3 PUFAs are present in a large quantity in “fish oil”. However, fish do not produce them, but only accumulate them by eating algae from which antioxidant iodide and selenium are able to protect their fragile membrane lipids from peroxidation (Venturi et al., 2000a, b). Milczarek et al. (2013 ) reported that iodide, used in doses generally recommended in iodide prophylaxis, may prevent oxidative damage to membrane lipids. Küpper et al. (2008) showed that iodide scavenges ROS in algae, and that it was the first inorganic antioxidant to be described in a living system. PUFAs and iodides combine together to form iodolipids. Throughout the evolution of life, these iodolipids appeared to be novel biochemical signals among cells, since contact and modification of membranes in multicellular organisms formed the bases of adaptation to terrestrial environments.

    Rousset et al. (1980) showed that iodination only occurs in the lipid components of cellular membrane where peroxidise enzymes are firmly bound.

    In vertebrates, I-concentrating cells of gastric mucosa, salivary and mammary glands can produce iodothyronines, iodoproteins and iodolipids, in the same way as the thyroid gland (Banerjee, 1985; Venturi, 2007; Swietaszczyk & Pilecki, 2012). In chemical terms, this is called ‘iodine value’ or ‘iodine number’ and these are often used to determine the amount of unsaturation in PUFAs. This unsaturation is in the form of double bonds which react with I-compounds (Thomas, 2002). Some iodolipids have been shown to regulate cellular metabolism (Pereira et al., 1990; Thomasz et al., 2010, 2013) and several authors have reported their effects on growth inhibition and apoptosis in different tumoral cells (Dugrillon, 1996; Aceves et al., 2005, 2006). The fact that radioiodine (131- I) is also detectable in the radioautographies of rats, 5 days after injection, in organs such as the stomach, fetal thymus, salivary glands and the retina, and after 14 days in oral mucosa, skin, hair and arterial walls, would suggest a local formation of little known iodocompounds, probably iodolipids and iodoproteins (Pellerin, 1961; Ullberg & Ewaldsson, 1964). See Figure 2. AA is one of the primary lipid molecules to be iodinated (DHA is another) and it is stored within the cell membrane, esterified to glycerol in phospholipids....

    Between the lipid and the aqueous phase, the concentration of T4 is about 20,000 times more than that of T3. Choroid plexus of the brain shows an active radioiodine uptake by NIS (Dickson et al., 1987). Through the choroid plexus, the thyroid hormones T4 and T3 reach the cerebrospinal fluid and then the neuronal cells of the brain and the retina (Figure 8). Moreover, the fourth atom of iodine in T4 is more important as an antioxidant, compared to 3 atoms in T3. In fact, Calvo (1990) has shown that only T4, and not T3, was able to prevent severe brain damage caused by hypothyroidism in the foetus and the newborn. In this way, the antioxidant actions of iodides, released from T4 via deiodinase enzymes, protect PUFAs of the membrane phospholipids of brain cells, making the neuronal transmission more efficient.

    Orzalesi and Calabria (1967) showed that the retinal pigment epithelium and the choroid of the eye have considerable uptakes of 131-I (Figures 6 & 7). The outer segment of retina harboring visual pigments is primarily composed of lipids containing PUFAs, mostly DHA, which play an important role in the development, survival and function of retinal photoreceptors, and are very susceptible to peroxidation, which is considered one of the causative factors of many retinal diseases, such as age-related macular degeneration and diabetic retinopathy (Roy et al., 2011). As there is a relatively high iodine enrichment in the retina, Rieger et al. (1995, 2010) proposed a therapy with iodide iontophoresis in some retinal diseases and reported that iodides are able to defend the eye against oxidative effects. Thyroxine 5’-deiodinases of type I and type II, both containing selenium, are enzymes belonging to the class of oxidoreductases, which catalyze the following reaction (Körhle, 2000, 2005):

    L-thyroxine (T4) + AH2 → 3,5,3 ‘-triiodo-L-thyronine (T3) + iodide + A + H

    This enzyme activity has been demonstrated only in the direction of 5’-deiodination, which makes T3 (the real hormone acting on nuclear T3-receptors) more active than T4. Likewise, Katamine et al. (1985) reported that dietary iodides protected the brain cells of rats from ROS. Ware and Wishner (1968), Cash et al. (1966) and Tseng and Latham (1984) showed that, as inhibitors of lipid peroxidation by 5’-monodeiodinase activity, T4 and reverse-T3 (but not T3) are more effective than vitamin E, glutathione and ascorbic acid. Peroxidases and deiodinases are able to take electrons from iodides, and the latter enzymes to take iodides from iodothyronines. Iodide and T4 trigger amphibian metamorphosis which transforms vegetarian tadpoles into adult carnivorous frogs, with the better neurological, visuospatial, olfactory and cognitive abilities necessary for hunting, characteristic of carnivorous predatory animals. ....


    Systematic investigations into iodinated biomolecules started only 40 years ago. Seaweed and marine organisms have more than 3000 of these molecules. Dembitsky and Tolstikov (2003) reported that more than 110 iodocompounds are chemically analysed in these organisms and some seem to possess anticancer and antibacterial properties. The action of iodolipids is an important new area of investigation, which might be useful for the study of apoptosis, carcinogenesis and degenerative diseases, and also for trying to answer some of the biochemical questions discussed regarding human evolution."

    Dr. Kruse also says in BG #12 "Iodine is a supreme cellular antioxidant in all human cells."

    So my question is whether the addition of iodine should be considered when increasing DHA intake. For all I can imagine, marine algae may not be making as much iodine as they used to, so the fish eating them are not getting enough iodine.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
    seanb4 likes this.
  16. Mystic Rose60

    Mystic Rose60 Let the sun shine on you :))

    This is a friend of mine, Dr. Mike Morea and he is done competing because of the toll it has taken on his body. I'm no longer a fan of any of it because of the toll it was taking on me and I know so much more now, thanks to Jack for opening my eyes. I saw Mike a few months ago and he's at 16% body fat now, vs this. I can't remember if he told me he was at 3% or 6% body fat here. He was still going to the gym though and training under artificial lights.....I left him with Jack's website to do his own research.
  17. all i can say is bertos chest position is fucking abysmal
    this guy would have the worst posture on the planet given how he looks supine
    Shijin13 likes this.
  18. the image basis of health and "fitness" is 100% what is wrong with health and fitness.
    Lahelada and cantweight like this.
  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

  20. this includes referring to peoples physiques as "adonis" etc, in some kind of positive slant based on image perception.

    i told jeremy on the cruise that when we see a six pack perpetually on, we see dysfunction in the stabilising system
    he gets a leave pass because his is formed by coughing
    rlee314, Lahelada, cantweight and 3 others like this.

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