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Small volume, zero carb, 70g protein, rest fat

Discussion in 'Epi-Paleo Recipes' started by seanb4, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    Hi guys,

    I'm doing an experiment to see if really high fat and bare minimum carbs helps me. My stomach cannot handle much stuff in it, so my theory goes that if I increase the fat and decrease the protein I will get more energy, from fat ATP, and more water, due to not as much protein to use up water and more fat to liberate water from, for the same volume of food.

    Problem is I'm not really sure what to eat to achieve this. So far the things I'm doing seem to be lacking in micro nutrients (particularly magnesium and potassium). I also cannot eat large quantities of butter, neat, without feeling sick.

    What I have been doing so far is 125g butter + 4 eggs for breakfast. Then chizo(???) sausage for tea, with about a litre of water as well. Nutrients aren't great from this but I get about 75g protein and rest fat.

    Any other cheap idea's for recipe?
  2. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    Also does anyone know if my theory has any weight to it?

    Does higher fat/ketosis mean you can get away with less water?
  3. sooperb

    sooperb New Member

    I wouldn't cut down on water, from reading Jack's posts etc. water is important and that we get plenty. I'm currently trying to up mine as I'm sure I don't get enough. Maybe you could add cream to the eggs if you're scrambling them? I'm not sure I could eat great lumps of butter on its own either. I'm sure Audrey said she made butter and cheese sandwiches once over, butter as the "bread" lol. Could you mix it with pure cocoa powder, then maybe freeze it in cubes and just munch straight from the freezer? Might be more palatable. Have you tried coconut butter? If you buy creamed coconut, warm it so that it melts down, add butter, maybe cocoa powder, mix well and refrigerate to set. Cut into small squares. You can't each much at once but you'll keep going back for it :) You could add in chopped nuts to make it more interesting? If you need to keep your intake to small bites, maybe that's the way to do it.
  4. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    Butter and cheese sandwiches are great. Cheese rollups with liver pate rolled into it.
    If you have cocoa and want to use it you could make it mexican style preparing it with water and cinnamon.I think with everything you eat though that is in some way prepared like liver pate or cheese you will get carb creep,ie inherent carbs in the product.
  5. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    I think micronutrient density can be arguable anyway. The RDAs aren't all necessarily correct, and how much you need of each seems actually to depend on the overall balance of your diet. For example, it appears that once the amount of carbohydrate goes up, vitamin C needs to go up, too: it's not clear why. (I think it's been suggested that the reason may be that glucose uses the same transport mechanism and so excess carbohydrate may swamp the ability of the vit. C to get round.) Magnesium it's reasonable to supplement anyway -- it's probably one of the few nutrients everyone could take as a supplement. It's depleted in soil, and it gets burnt up by stress (which is endemic in modern life). I'd take some magnesium malate before bed every night. Potassium -- it is fairly high in much veg. but it's another you could supplement: some low-carb doctors automatically prescribe it to patients they put on low-carb diets. Most above-ground veg. doesn't equal much in the way of calories, so most low-carb people don't even count it ... but I suppose it is bulky and if your stomach can't take a lot in it. ...

    General comments -- I don't know enough to advise.

    I don't know why you feel sick. I did used to eat lumps of butter. I think it should be possible. I wonder if it could be a signal that you're not going to be able to digest it. I'd think it possible that you need to back off with the amount of fat, or take digestive enzymes ... or perhaps you need some other strategy anyway.

    Chorizo (Spanish sausage pronounced choreetho)? Fairly high fat, but often has a lot of additives.

    A standard thing back in the day when ketogenic diets were used therapeutically by hospitals was to give people eggs beaten into double cream. You'd just keep drinking that till you went into ketosis.

    You're UK-based, aren't you? Waitrose has French pork rilletes -- those'll be pretty high fat. Then there's really dark chocolate -- you can even get 100% cocoa chocolate now:


    More on what people on very high-fat diets tend to eat here:


    But I'd say a bit more about what your problem is. Maybe you need a different strategy and the more detail the better.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
    seanb4 likes this.
  6. sooperb

    sooperb New Member

    Sean has a journal Mike where he details his problems with his gut/stomach. He's struggling with quantity of anything.
  7. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    Thanks for the responses guys, some great information there.

    @sooperb I'm not talking about reducing water intake, im talking about getting more water for the same volume of food due to higher fat liberating more water when metabolised. I like the idea of coconut butter, will definitely try that. Not so sure about the cocoa powder or the cheese sandwhiches, the former is chocolate which gives me worse sickly feeling and palpitations, and the latter has cheese in which makes bloating and heaviness worse.

    @Gagnrad I hear you about the micronutrients though they still look low even when you take into account the things you said.
    Yeah I don't eat much veg at all due to bulk meaning potassium and mag are hard to get, dark chocolate seems like a great source for these but, as said above, causes problems.
    Eating really high fat is a new thing I'm trying, I've tried all other macronutrient combo's and specific diets and non of it seems to help, only reducing volume of food/water does.
    I have tried digestive enzymes and various other things with no success.
    The chorizo I buy has fairly decent ingredients but I don't want to have to rely on it.
    Might check out the rillets and eggs with double cream, are those eggs raw?
    Thanks for the link, very interesting. Seems I will have to keep at it until my tolerance increases.

    Brief overview of my problems. Whenever I eat or drink ANYTHING (including just water) stomach massively bloats, feels uncomfortable/heavy, heart palpitates, feel like stomach contents come back up through esoughagus, stomach feels full mouth does not. Long term problems are massive fatigue, constipation, tiredness, and a whole host of other smaller stuff.
  8. sooperb

    sooperb New Member

    Just wondering Sean, have you demonstrated the bloating to your GP? As in taken something with you to eat/drink in his presence so he can see the effect and have firsthand experience of what happens? It might be useful. Especially if he could organise an ECG to capture your heart rhythm at the same time.
  9. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    It's not a bad idea though my stomach is constantly bloated so they may think that's normal. Last time I showed them my abdomen pulsating and now I'm getting my blood pressure taken a couple of times a week because it was high. I think the only reason it's high is because my heart is beating harder because my stomach is stressed but no doubt they will chalk it up to the high fat diet... I see the GP again this friday.
  10. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    I can't understand why you are still eating that chorizo?
  11. sooperb

    sooperb New Member

    I had chorizo tonight Audrey, only thing in it was pork and paprika. Made it into a soup with spices, courgette, sweet potato, golden beet root and butternut squash, fresh coriander and some thick cream. It was lovely. As ever I forgot to tip in the sea vegetables.
  12. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    That is great if you can buy them with no additives and crap...... but I don't think that is what Sean's are ......

    sounds lovely Soo
  13. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    It's cheap. high fat, and the ingredients are just pork, paprika, and sodium nitrate, I think, most importantly it's low volume.
  14. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    is the sodium nitrate a concern?

    I just bought some goat's milk and I am going to make goat cheese and then mix in MCT oil .....
  15. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    not that I know of.

    How do you make cheese from milk?
  16. kovita

    kovita Gold

    have you looked at GAPS diet? i did mkdified intro GAPS diet and it helped me i. gre t way to start and mostly to identify my sensitivities. I did IgG test later on and I discovered almost all my sensitivities through GAPS intro correctly (missed only ginger). I am pretty sure that the large amount of bone broths I consumed and still do consume quite a lot did me a great service. For me larticulary resistant starch proved to be very good. You may have poor vagal nerve tone, there are breathing exercises to improve this. The GAPS intro was not eaxtly smooth, I had some major crisis two weeks into it but it was worth it. I would say you do. ot seem to be the type, who can just jump into it, specially high fat. Your bldy needs to adjust many things in order to digest a use diet based on fat, specially if you have been eating carbs based diet for a long time.
  17. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    it is easy to make soft cheese ... just google it.

    I just know I can't eat any commercial sausages or salamis ...
  18. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    I have done GAPs intro for months with literally no difference in symptoms. This and the water fast leads me to believe it's not food sensitivities but my stomach reacting to having anything in it, like something mechanically is wrong.
  19. seanb4

    seanb4 New Member

    I haven't noticed any difference eating the chorizo than eating fish or even drinking water, symptoms wise. Some times, with things like cheese, I will notice aditional bloating/discomfort/constipation but most epi-paleo foods seem to be the same.

    Yeah I remember now, I made cottage cheese using milk ages ago, it tasted like crap though and you would only get a little cheese from a lot of milk.
  20. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    It shouldn't have tasted like crap! lol it tastes like ricotta.......

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