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Skin Temp's

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by meyoolia@gmail.com, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. meyoolia@gmail.com

    meyoolia@gmail.com New Member

    Hi all,

    As I understood it, Dr. K. says the tub water should be between 50-55F.... but i seem to recall reading that we're aiming to get our *skin* to that temp, which mine never is, when I check it immediately after getting out after 30+ minutes. Think I should be lowering the tub temp? easily doable, with water coming straight outta Lake Ontario at about 40F ;) cheers J
  2. Clabbergirl

    Clabbergirl New Member

    My understanding is the same thing - get your skin to that temp. The water temp needs to be as low as necessary for your skin to reach that temp range. Of course always being on the lookout for frostbite/burns from the water or ice.
  3. I think that is why it takes closer to an hour for the skin to reach the temp of the water?
  4. Claudia

    Claudia New Member

    What are you using to measure skin temp? I have an infrared thermometer that I use on the kids, it measures arterial temp. I tried it after a cold shower but I had to dry off first. I don't think it should get wet and I don't want to ruin it as I need it for the kids. After the cold shower my skin was 68 degrees. HOw accurate is this? I"m thinking not very accurate at all. My water temp is at 50-55 coming out of the tap. My cold bath last night was 12-13 minutes long. I will increase the next bath by 5 minutes. Do I need to spend more time in the water then to get my skin temp down to 50-55, same as the water? I am being very cautious and I can't use ice. I developed cold urticaria from doing a cold bath with ice last week. I am easing back in and trying not to let that be a deterrent.
  5. Claudia - even at 45 minutes in about 52deg water my skin temp was still a bit above 55 degrees. But it was lower than 30 minutes I had been doing, so it seems to take a while. My measurements of water/skin were with my cooking thermapen. I pinched my skin around it to measure skin temp and it is a fast reading that should be pretty accurate. I use the thermapen a ton for cooking and even more now - worth the investment even if not the best tool for skin temps.
  6. AKMan

    AKMan New Member

    I've put a lot of thought into this 55 deg skin temp thing. When I first started CT'ing last month, I could get my forearms down to 55 deg, no problem. If I went outside, where air temp was 0 deg, it would take about 10 minutes and my skin temp would measure 55 degs (I use an infrared thermometer). After a week or so, my skin temp would barely get to 70 deg with the same or longer exposure. I tried soaking in 35 deg water, it still wouldn't get down to 55 degrees. I think this is because with repeated cold exposure, your blood vessels don't constrict and allow more blood to flow to the surface of your skin.

    What I think needs to happen for effective CT: You need to expose your skin to 55 degree water or air. In numerous studies I've read, researchers on CT use 50-55 degrees as the threshhold for shivering. When you start shivering, you are using a different mechanism to increase body heat (thermogenesis) that involves muscle contraction and ATP production. Non-shivering Thermogenesis (NST) uses uncoupling protein (UCP-1) to create heat from mitochodria outside the normal ATP cycle. This is the uniqueness of 55 degrees. It will happen at any temperature below thermoneutral, which is generally thought to be 72 degrees, but the closer you get to the threshold of shivering, the more you will benefit from CT.

    55 degree water is 26 times more effective than 55 degree air. This is because water pulls heat away faster than air. In my N=1 experiments in Alaska, the air temp needs to be below 10 degrees to get the same effect as 55 degree water. In air temps between 0 and -20, most people will begin shivering in about 5-10 minutes (wearing only shorts).

    Bottom line - CT will work in air or water temperatures between 50 and 70 degrees. It's effectiveness decreases when you start shivering. So, figure out where you start to shiver and get a tad warmer than that.
    seanb4 likes this.
  7. Evo Mama

    Evo Mama New Member

    Does this mean if I'm shivering in the tube a good deal of the time, I need to increase the temperature of the water, so I'm just above that threshold, or will I still be making BAT if I'm shivering a lot. The thing is, with the water temps being consistent, one night I shiver and have a hard time, and the next night I shiver for a few minutes, then I'm fine. So, if my reaction (shivering) is inconsistent, how can I use shivering as a measure of whether or not the CT is being effective? What do you all think?
  8. AKMan

    AKMan New Member

    I'd love to hear Jack's opinion, but I think CT should be done above the shivering level. When you shiver, it is your muscles that are warming you up, not the uncoupled proteins from BAT. To me, shivering during CT therapy would be the same as wrapping yourself in hot towels while in a tub of ice.
  9. Kpcst

    Kpcst Silver

    I'm shivering right now as I read this forum on the iPad in my cold dark hotel room in order to distract myself from the cold tub. Yes, that was a run on sentence.
  10. Coriander

    Coriander Silver

    On Jack's CT-6 blog, comment #634,TheKid asked if it was ok that he was still shivering an hour after CT.

    Jack's response: @The Kid as much as your body can dish out…..that is a great sign your pilot is turning on.

    So, if shivering is a good sign of progress, I don't see how avoiding it can be a positive?

    I shivered when I started CT; the first couple of times I shivered in the bath for a while, but then I shivered after getting out for a few sessions.

    I don't shiver at all in the bath now, and afterward, if it's a cold day like today, I have this kind of low hummm in my body. But not real shivering.

    If we were supposed to avoid temperatures that cause shivering, I'm sure that would have been mentioned in the protocol.
  11. Claudia

    Claudia New Member

    I don't shiver at all when I'm in the bath. Tonight I did 16 minutes in 53 degree water. Not enough water to be fully submerged so my stomach didn't get fully wet. I did shiver when I got out and put some clothes on as quickly as I could and socks and felt better once I started moving a bit. I'm still cold now 3 hours later but manageable cold. Is this ok?

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