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Rosedale vs Kruse?? "Run in the opposite direction"

Discussion in 'Educating Doctors' started by Gagnrad, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    This story is quite unnerving in its way. It coms in the form of a conversation between Ron Rosedale and a man who's worried about his heart scan:


    This was the thing that really struck me listening to this recording: Ron Rosedale saying, "There’s no science to back up anything they say about statins". I think this is the thing that gets more -- I don't know how to put it -- more creepy almost the more you think about it. These doctors are recommending something that could do real damage to this man and won't help him and don't seem to be even thinking about what they're doing -- it's as if they're sleepwalking.

    It seems to me that they're not really thinking analytically. They're not asking themselves, "How did the calcium get there?" -- because it wasn't transported by cholesterol. What I think their mental processes must look like is a vague kind of associational linking something like this:

    heart attacks >> cholesterol >> statins

    That's just not good enough.


    The whole recording is actually pretty interesting. For example, I didn't know that high leptin levels may be implicated here:

    And here is a really shattering indictment of past -- and lamentably still current -- health advice that's coming from some quarters:

    There we go:

    Don't eat butter
    Use polyunsaturated oils
    Take calcium
    Eat a low-fat diet
    Take statins

    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

    One could add: "Make sure you're using fluoride toothpaste".

    As Rosedale said: "You would do far better just to run the other way."

    This is failure on a grand scale.

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2013...sedale-keep-the-butter-and-give-up-the-bagel/
     
    Brigid likes this.
  2. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    Whats the problem with calcium?
     
  3. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    It's in the wrong place. In his arteries.

    The transcript of the recording is worth a look. Here's what Rosedale says:

    I really understand Rosedale's impatience with his own profession -- and downright contempt for the pharmaceutical industry. He's says above there, "It’s been known for 10 years now, and there’s probably hundreds of articles that show the control of leptin on cardiovascular calcification."

    From which the average reader can deduce that his doctor probably doesn't read the research -- let alone think about it and assess it, bearing in mind its biases and so on. He can also deduce that his doctor allows himself to be bounced by the pharmaceutical industry into doing what suits them financially. To quote Rosedale again, "... they [these doctors] don’t even measure it. Why? Because there are no drugs to control it."
     
  4. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    I've read that Vit. K2 MK7 supposedly will send calcium to the bones etc. and have read various testimonies from people saying that the health of their teeth improved as well.

    I do understand Dr. Rosedale's frustration. Big Pharma has their hooks in the education of doctors and a chair only gets sponsored if it teaches the desirable material . . . .

    I forget now where I read of a guy who referred to the doctors of the past as "Physicians" in contrast to the modern doctors whom he called "Medical Doctors". The distinction being made was in how the Physicians helped heal people while the Medical Doctors prescribed pharmaceuticals to treat symptoms according to what they had been taught under Big Pharma sponsored chairs at Universities and what the reps told them.

    I had a discussion recently with my current GP about the stop smoking drug Champix (Chantex?). He was saying how wonderful it was (even though I'd read of some pretty nasty side effects) but when I asked him how it worked he said he forgot what the rep told him. Either he did forget or else my 10 minutes was up . . . either way, looking for a new GP.
     
  5. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    I'd heard that, too. I heard that the Japanese prescribe K2 (MK4 form ?) for osteoporosis where doctors in the West would prescribe drugs that interfere with the activity of osteoclasts. (I think maybe they're also told to eat natto.)

    Rosedale touches on these drugs a little in that conversation, too -- says you can end up with bones that show as denser on a scan but that can shatter "like glass". IIRC, he says this is another case of doctors treating a number not a condition. (This seems to be another recurrent theme -- what's cholesterol-lowering about if not treating a number?) Again, concerning -- what do doctors think the activity of osteoclasts is about? Why does it happen, and isn't it likely to be necessary if it does? Do they think about these processes at all?

    Jack says in a podcast somewhere that he stopped getting tartar on his teeth after he began taking K2 complex.

    It's deeply interesting that a lot of different conditions seem to involve improper calcium metabolism. There's osteoporosis, but there's also calcification of the arteries and subsequent heart attacks, there's stroke (isn't this down to excessive calcium influx in the brain?), there's also calcium deposition in joints -- both CPP and apatite:

    http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/arthritis-information/conditions/calcium-crystal-diseases.aspx
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  6. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    Natto = fermented soy beans . . . . I try to avoid soy whenever I can. I have no idea if fermented ones are different . . .

    I have osteoarthrosis of the left knee and after months of physiotherapy/acupuncture, which provided good but no permanent relief, eliminating the nightshade family and all grains from my diet provided lasting relief. So I'm pretty sure that the calcium deposition that was previously occuring (bone spurs) was caused by inflammation.

    From my learnings with horse nutrition I learned that calcium and magnesium are stored in muscle and bone - and that when you get low on these it will be taken from muscle and bone to compensate. It also seemed to take a long time to correct a long term deficiency - up to a couple of years in one horse I own - as if the supplements took all that time to repay the mineral debt previously incurred.

    FWIW, yesterday, due to my own stupidity, I got my lower leg stood on by a horse. My leg was flat on the hard ground, lateral side down when the horse stood on the medial side about mid shin with his hind foot. I'm still amazed my leg did not break, even more amazed that I seem to have suffered nothing more serious than a couple of grazes.
     
  7. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    That in my opinion is what's wrong with most doctors (present company excepted, of course ;-) ) and indeed with all of us. We are behaving as if under a mild anesthetic. Actually I think two mild anesthetics -- halides in our water and artificial EMF. Hmm, would suntan lotions, long sleeves, and sunglasses constitute a third anesthetic? Anesthetic = anything that separates us from the 3-leg stool?
     
    Lahelada likes this.
  8. Linz

    Linz New Member

    Mike - there is lots here in the osteoporosis blogs about vitamin K2 MK4 and it's role in Ca transport if you haven't seen it already. I supplement along with D3 and lambs liver (for vit A) and tooth plaque disappeared fast.

    Da-mo, I hope the leg is not black and blue. Do lots of CT. The same happened to me a while ago and it was very painful. Wish I had known then how effective CT is.
     
  9. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    Maybe. I do get the uncomfortable feeling that this is the way many (most?) people, not just doctors, have operated at all times and in all places, though. Part of our trouble seems to be that we think of doctors having better intellectual standards in this respect and they just don't -- on the whole. Rosedale says that, too:

    I guess they probably are mostly smarter than the average person in the general population, but Rosedale's wording seems precisely right: they're "certainly not much smarter on these issues" ... and you kind of think they would be.

    Da-Mo's story given above is pretty shocking, really:

    That's appalling, just appalling.

    What is he doing? Apparently, making himself a catspaw for the rep ... in other words, for the financial interests of the pharmaceutical company. He doesn't know, or even apparently care, how this works. And if he had "remembered" it was only hearsay off a salesman. Could you imagine this doctor doing any independent research into how it works?

    I think Robert O. Becker put his finger on one important historical cause of the gullibility of contemporary doctors. He says in The Body Electric that the undoubted success of penicillin and the sulpha drugs gave them a drugs mentality. They developed a kind of faith in pills.
     
    Lahelada likes this.
  10. Johnathan Swift

    Johnathan Swift New Member

    I agree with Gagnrad 100% I am a Medical Herbalist practicing in the UK. I am apalled at some of the things that doctors do. There are two significant books written that are informative on this subject "The Magnesium Miracle" and "Death By Modern Medicine" both by Carolyne Dean. On the subject of cardiovascular calcification I think I may be able to shed some light. Calcium and Magnesium compete for absorption. The ratio in the diet is therefore pertinent. Our paeliolithic ancestors had a ratio of circa 1:1. Our modern ratio is between 5:1 and 15:1 reespectively depending on how bad the diet is. We therefore have a preponderence of Calcium.

    Calcium is more soluble in the presence of magnesium. If magnesium lowers, calcium can precipitate out as microcrystals. If this happens in the tissues you have calcification. Magnesium is stored in the tissues and so is swept out of the bloodstream. If you have too much Calcium (lots of dairy products and/or supplements) you are setting yourself up for calcification unless you get a lot of Magnesium in your diet. This is difficult to do without supplementation as modern agricultural practices have depleted Magnesium in the soils. Bones don't just need Calcium. They also need Magnesium and Phosphate. If bone is made without sufficient of these minerals it will be chalky and have no structural strength. Messing around with the osteoblasts and osteoclasts with drugs cannot alter this.

    Magnesium is therefore a key player in keeping Calcium in solution and its subsequent transport to bone tissue. There are wider issues with respect to the Calcium/Magnesium ratio in respect of the proper functioning of the nervous system but this is perhaps beyond the scope of this thread.

    I think that I also may be able to suggest why Leptin is high when cardiovascular calcification is present. Leptin is created in the white adipose tissue (fat). The more fat the more Leptin. It is a direct relationship. Magnesium is needed for Insulin to work properly. Without enough Magnesium, Insulin cannot get Glucose molecules into the cells properly. Therefore blood-glucose and Insulin levels rise. This is dangerous and the liver responds by converting some to fat. Fat increases in the body and so Leptin rises. Calcification/Leptin is therefore definitely a parallel relationship - but I doubt it is a causal one.

    With respect to Statins: they are stark raving bonkers founded on questionable research. In one sense Big Pharma is to be congratulated. They have pulled off what is possibly the biggest con in human history netting them many billions. They make Bernie Madhoff look like a street-corner card-sharp. Cholesterol is part of our normal biochemistry. If the Cholesterol and Triglyceride ratios are awry the reason sits in our biochemistry, diet and environment. We do not get high LDL because of a deficiency of Lipitor, so dosing with this is not a solution to the underlying problem. Statins block the production of cholesterol. The same biochemical pathway produces CoQ10 which is needed by the Krebs cycle in the production of energy - particualarly for the heart. Perhaps we can talk of cholesterol and its metabolism in a separate thread. History will eventually put Statins in the same quackery box as antimony, arsenic and mercury medications. Meanwhile doctors and Big Pharma are away on their toes with the money, leaving sick and suffering people in their wake.

    So where do the medical profession stand in all this? They appear to have sold their profession to Big Pharma. Most know little or nothing of dietetics, will never use herbs (even when they are the only game in town for a particualr condition) and appear to have slept through their lectures on biochemistry. They have stopped thinking for themselves and their patients and exist to connect disease to pharmaceutical drugs in a most mechanical way. A computer could probably do better - certainly with fewer errors! I cannot escape the conclusion that they have taken Big Pharma's 30 pieces of silver and given their patients the Gethsemene kiss.
     
  11. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The blog i just released shows the precise interaction between Ca and Mg. It is 100% tied to water chemistry. It has nothing to do with the solubility of calcium with magnesium. They are dielectric antagonists in a quantum cell because one is hydrophobic and the other is hydrophilic. Rosedale is also one of those diet doctors who is a smart guy but has no clue about IGF 1 and the mTOR pathway. Most of his beliefs are tied to Cynthia Kenyon's findings on C elegans. I got into a huge discussion with him on a paleo site and told him worms use SIRT 2, 3 4 and 5 and humans do not run mTOR. We use SIRT 1 and SIRT 6. Todays blog shows in detail why that is a MAJOR HUGE DEAL. Of course, leptin has to do with CAC in arteries......it is tied to how melanopsin works with blue light and nnEMF and this cause melanopsin dysfunction which causes leptin resistance eventually. Ron knows nothing about light so he blames the wrong things just as the docs blame cholesterol for heart disease. From my perspective, he is as bad as they are and he does not even realize it. Dunning Kruger 101

    The new blog is live on how mitochondrial DNA interact with your somatic DNA to explain most neolithic diseases that confound modern science. http://jackkruse.com/cpc-8-quantum-brain-cancer/
     
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Jon put a pic up too.......it is a new rule.
     
  13. Johnathan Swift

    Johnathan Swift New Member

    Thx Jack. (Not a pretty picture!) Are you saying that the ratio of Mg to Ca does not affect calcification or are you saying that it is does but by a different mechanism?
     
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Pics are pics
     
  15. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Read the new blog this AM............the mechanism is in there.
     
  16. ALEXIS TUDOR

    ALEXIS TUDOR Gold Member

    You can say that about vaxes too. There the con job is even better. Many of those contagious diseases were on their way out as far as killing people long before the vaxes were invented. Scarlet Fever which was rampant left on its own. Small pox left before 10% of the population could get vaccinated. Now there have restirred up hysteria in the congress to mandate getting jabbed for kids and many adults in health and school industries. I guess you should not expect less when a medical system is driven by profit.
     

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