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reverse electron flow

Discussion in 'Mitochondrial Rx' started by Josh (Paleo Osteo), Jan 30, 2015.

  1. ssj3

    ssj3 Silver

    Your going old school bodybuilding now, lol. On that if you consider the "cheat" meals employed during comp prep to re-spark fat loss is usually a carb+fat+salt meal like burger, fries and milkshake. Come to think of it I haven't seen fruit ever used in this meal. I know some use the scale to determine when to refeed... if they wake and bodyweight has dropped by a too large amount then its on. Another observation is that those who gradually reach shape (longer prep) without the need for drastic loss (didn't let themselves gain excessive fat - say 12% for male) fare much better over the long run.
  2. cantweight

    cantweight Gold


    I think what I am doing (and having great results with) is quite similar to what you are describing.....I have a lot of weight to lose...100+ lbs

    I am having coffee with mct/brain octane and raw milk am and again in the early afternoon with collagen protein added as well and often raw cacao. I can not seem to get enough of the mct my body loves it where as it had rejected my attempts at coconut oil in the past.

    I have no hunger decent energy and clearer thinking.

    With these fatty coffees I am taking branched chain amino acids and betaine hcl

    For dinner I am having protein, fat, and vegetable also with amino acids and betaine hcl

    Most evening 7-8 pm I will also have a dark chocolate covered brazil nut or dark chocolate covered pumpkin seeds

    I take a mag/pot chelate supplement nightly and weekly 50,000 iu transdermal D3 on face and sit in front of plant "grow" lights for 10-15 mins, as well as get any sun I can....but it is winter here

    I have started a very light hiit twice weekly with CT 2-3 times a week

    I did a carb refeed once and it was met with a 3 lb weight gain and general stomach discomfort....no positives noted. I was thinking I would add sweetpotato or rice on occasion if my body is craving carbs....I am one of those people that tends to feel bad after long periods of hard keto. Although I am noticing for whatever reason the mct or the veggies I dont have the crashes I am used to seeing.

    Detox is still an issue....while skin on chest and body in general seems to be becoming more even toned and youthful in appearance the skin on face is having bouts of acne. Mood is horrific. Sleep has been odd, lots of bad dreams....very uncommon for me. Sleeping on magnetico. Was using charcoal and chlorella for detox but bowels slowed so not using currently.

    Looking at your plan I wonder about the increased autophagy....is the autopahgy itself the complete cellular "clean up" or does it produce its own by products that can cause a toxic type issue in the body and require employing extra clean up?

    Will be adding bitter melon to this mix today....

    Also you mentioned increased thirst. When I experimented with CBD oil I had insane thirst and zero hunger. Once i am settled with the bitter melon I plan to add the CBD oil back in....

    Weekly protein fast being considered but without a carb push....just a moderate intake to suffice hunger
  3. CTforlife

    CTforlife New Member

    This last summer I put on 17 pounds of muscle and dropped my body fat lower than it is now. I ate mainly protein and carbs in a circadian rhythm. Lack of dha and cholesterol. I was still using kelp.
    To clarify, I did have a "dha" store inside my body before that experiment last summer. One thing I noticed is that when fasting I lost muscle faster then than I would now. I think having a lot of muscle mass and dha when fasting doesn't equal eating your muscles for fuel like most will say in the body building world.
    But at my leanest last summer I would fast and see noticeable loss in size.
    Just throwing this out there lol.
  4. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    Disclaimer to Readers: you will see references to illegal anabolic steroids in this post. Obviously you shouldn't be taking these, but people do use them anyway, to great health detriment. So the most useful thing I can do is to tease out the mechanisms based on what I see, in hopes of figuring out mechanistic effects which can then be applied to optimal health. I have also never used any of these substances, so everything I say is second-hand knowledge.


    Yeah, there are definitely lots of anecdotal reports from older natty bodybuilders, who find it harder to lose fat after years of prolonged and aggressive bulk-cut cycles.

    For those that aren't aware, it's common practice for bodybuilders to try and eat more and gain weight to gain as much muscle as possible while reducing fat gain. While most bodybuilders don't do a Lee Priest style dreamer-bulk, a lot used to get up above 15-18% body fat, up to maybe 20% body fat (in males). 15% body fat is usually the point where most of these guys would claim to start experiencing insulin resistance (and there is research to back up this claim)

    Then they would consolidate muscle gains (usually good practice to do a 1-2 week deload here), and try to cut back down to a very lean body fat level for competition (5% body in males is always the target).​

    The mechanism here is very likely reduced Leptin Sensitivity due to fat-cell biogenesis during the bulk cycles, which is often done in the context of chronically high insulin (very different from spiking insulin acutely).

    Not practicing stuff like CT means that all you get is fat cell shrinkage during the fat-loss cycles, which still leaves the emptied-out fat cell signalling to the Leptin Receptor, thereby creating Leptin Resistance over time :confused:.

    Enhanced competitors fare better of course, and I personally do not know which of the compounds is causing the effect, though I think that it's the combination of clen + insulin + GH that gives better fat oxidation and autophagy. I think fat cell apoptosis is very possible in this case.

    Clenbuterol itself without any other stacking is crazy effective, and you can bet that the effect comes down to beta-2 receptor activation. I like Lyle McDonald's treatment of the science behind this in his 'Stubborn Fat Solution' book -- http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-stubborn-fat-solution/ . Like Lyle writes in his book, there is probably a way to utilise being in a fasted state, together with HIIT exercise to get around this issue, but that is usually in the context of a very lean individual. Martin Berkhan's take on this is also useful -- http://www.leangains.com/2010/06/intermittent-fasting-and-stubborn-body.html

    Again, if there's a way to get rid of fat cells safely and effectively, I'm all for such methods applied to people with excess fat cells.


    The inclusion of fruit is just based off anecdotal evidence o_O. Lyle will tell you that small amounts of fructose (up to 20-30g) help with carb refeeding. This was mentioned in his 'Ultimate Diet 2.0' book, which really focuses in on a lot of the observations and science behind carbohydrate refeeding -- http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20/


    I've always wondered whether fasting improves energetics, and "helps your body lose mass that it should lose", excess muscle mass included.

    I'm biased to think that being smaller (lower mass) is a more energy efficient state, which is preferred to putting on extra muscle mass. I have no definitely conclusions yet :p

    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  5. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    I personally have found this exact issue (bloating) when trying to introduce a large amount of carbs from "natural sources" like sweet potatoes or potatoes. The only reason I can chalk it up to is the higher GI of these whole food sources.

    Josh (Osteo) also relayed a similar experience -- http://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/seasonal-eating-restrictions.9690/page-2#post-152384 . John Kiefer's recommendation with Carb-Backloading is also to not use "natural carbs", and get as high GI carbs as possible during the backload.

    Appropriate carb load amounts are also going to vary wildly across, and the only way to find out seems to be self-experimentation.

    I've said in the previous posts of this thread that I believe this to be an insulin-triggered effect, and dietary carbs aren't strictly necessary for this to occur.


    If anyone wants to experiment with high insulin spikes, I think the safest bet is a small dose of rice pudding with some raw honey and skim- or low-fat milk :)eek:) if dairy is tolerated.

    In carbohydrate gram amounts, we're talking around 75-100g of carbs, so something like:
    • 3oz (85g) of rice (weighed when raw)
    • 4oz (100mL) of skim or 2% fat milk
    • 1 tablespoon (15g) of honey
    • (plus appropriate amount of water of course)
    Rice is probably the "lowest toxin grain" out there. Use as short grain a rice variety as you can get to maximise the the amylopectin to amylose ratio and increase the insulin spiking potential.

    This is a time to have dessert before the meal rather than after :rolleyes:. Consume before any other food, and then have the regular fare after. Personally, I have better success with lower fat and lower overall food volume in this meal.

    HIIT before this meal is ideal.

    As usual, your mileage may vary, with seasonal and other environment health factors playing a large role in personal response to such experiments.

    EDIT <05-Feb-2015 6:40am GMT+1000>: Frequency Considerations

    At the very least, I'd say take 2 days between such refeeds (which do utilise carbs). 2 days back on low carb generally depletes liver and muscle glycogen slightly, and definitely to the degree whereby an influx of another 100g of carbs can be stored directly as glycogen stores.

    The context is which "long periods of hard keto" fails an individual needs to be accurately defined.

    For me, I will say that I have and am capable of staying on a keto diet for a long time, but don't respond as well once environmental stressors start to kick up. "Increased need for fast energy", and not being able to provide it through FFAs alone is probably the reason here.

    IMO, the mechanism is that environmental stressors limit your "fat burning potential", which leads to the free FFA shortage. Mina Bissell's work is relevant here.

    Autophagy here refers to cleanup of internal cellular junk and components while preserving the entire cell.

    Issues with "detox symptoms" usually occur when you get stuff like free-flowing heavy metals in the bloodstream, which is a failure of various systems like phase-1 liver detox (bad redox potential in liver cells).

    Increasing autophagy should not lead to increased presence of such harmful compounds in the serum. Though I can see an issue with employing such re-feed strategies when you have a disease like fatty liver.

    Let us know if it has a noticeable effect :D. I like to think of it as "CT in a pill", designed by nature to get some of the benefits of CT during long light cycles and warm temperatures.

    (Specifically: no magnetism increasing effects due to the cold, but lots of uncoupling and possible adaptogenic activity from the bitters)

    Jack once described increased thirst with CT being a sign that "your body is expecting more good water". I assume that's a good thing ;)

    Now you're going to force me to post up some of the thoughts I have about CBD :rolleyes:

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
  6. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    Mouth hanging agape at your mention of rice pudding. I tolerate rice very well and raw dairy (it does not come in low fat). Was devising a plan to make an acceptable rice pudding.....all is a good in a world with rice pudding...lol!

    Long periods of hard keto (for me) are generally 3-6 week stretches with hardly a carb.....under 15 most days. And yes stressors ( husband, children, parents, money, hormones) drive the harder moments.

    My kid's take on bitter melon...."Smells like poop. Tastes like chocolate." Will update with results....

    Cant wait to hear your thoughts on CBD....I liked it enough to add it back into my current hack. Im just taking things slowly so i can really see what is having effects positive or negative.
  7. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    I want to make a comment about Bill Lagakos' recent post about peripheral circadian clock entrainment as it pertains to cellular signalling -- http://caloriesproper.com/meal-timing-and-peripheral-circadian-clocks

    NOTE: don't forget that we are here to maximise health outcomes, and allow the body to be as energy efficient as possible.​

    First, I want to say that I agree with the review of the study which he discusses. I want to make some additions to what I think is an ideal way to use a "backloading protocol" in the Leptin Sensitive person.

    IMPORTANT: different health requires will demand a slight change in the protocol. I still think however that the generalised recommendations can be applied to any dietary template (including the ketogenic template often used for disease reversal)​

    + 2 meals, ideally within a short eating window (anywhere from 4-8 hours)

    + exercise during the last 2 hours before sunset

    + large meal after this exercise session.

    - 50% of daily calories
    - 75% of daily protein intake
    - Optionally carbs if seasonally appropriate. If high carb, then low fat. High GI carbs are best to shorten time of elevated insulin

    + first meal of the day set 5-8 hours prior to this late day meal.

    - Make sure that this is always after sunrise (relevant if length of day is pretty short).
    - Make sure that this is always 2 hours after sunrise
    - 50% of daily calories
    - 25% of daily protein intake
    - always low carb, high fat


    ## Worked Example

    I'll use myself as an example. Decently Leptin Sensitive 24-year old Male, around 175lbs.

    NOTE: don't read too much into the numbers, this is supposed to be an example that tries quantifies things, and uses caloric values to represent food amount and macronutrient variations across the day. I'll give generalised recommendations later.​

    So let's say it's Autumn, and the light cycle lasts from 7am to 5pm (10hrs), and I am doing this modified version of carb backloading.

    I would first set the last meal to be at around 4pm. Then I would work backwards, aiming to have an exercise session at 3pm, and then the other meal of the day 4 to 6 hours prior at 10am to 12pm.

    I would wake up at 7am, and maybe grab a cup of coffee and then get some morning light exposure. I'd maybe have some cream or butter in my coffee, around a 1.5 tablespoons or so (200kcal)

    I'd go about my day until "lunch time" at 11am, which would probably be something like:

    - 300g mackerel and misc condiments (600kcal, 50g protein)
    - nuts (about 50g, 400kcal)
    - 20g of dark chocolate (100kcal)
    - another 1.5tbspn of butter with coffee (200kcal)

    1300kcal total for this first meal.

    Resistance training or HIIT at 3pm, lasting for maybe 30-45mins.

    Final meal would be 1300kcal:

    - 50g whey protein and 5g leucine (200kcal, 40g protein)
    - 400g of beef oyster blade (lots of tendons) (700kcal, 100g protein)
    - some form of sauce for the beef (100kcal)
    - 80g rice (weighed raw) (300kcal, 70g carbs)

    Total nutrition for the day is around: 190g protein, 120g carbs, 175g fat, 2800kcal. Macro ratios in terms of calories is 27% protein, 17% carb, 56% fat

    Yes, this is a lot of protein, with a moderate amount of carbs.

    I will do the above protocol maybe 3 days a week. The other days will be exactly the same, except without the resistance training (just walk around a lot or something), and with dinner being something more like:

    - 300-400g of some fatty cut of meat (800kcal, 70-100g protein)
    - misc condiments or sauce to go with the meat (200kcal)

    Leaving daily totals at something more like: 130g protein, 50g carb, 200g fat, 2500kcal, (20% protein, 8% carb, 72% fat)


    ## General Principles

    Note that the assumption is that Leptin Sensitivity has been achieved. With the Leptin Resistant person, your prority is always to re-establish Leptin Sensitivity. Using food at sunrise to force peripheral clocks to signal strongly together with the natural light stimulus setting the central clock is the basic idea.

    HOWEVER: I do give a couple of reasons why one may benefit from waiting 2 hours after sunrise before eating breakfast.​

    1. Exercise best done in the last 2 hours before sunset, because this is the time of highest protein synthesis and highest muscular coordination.

    2. Dinner in the last 2 hours before sunset (after exercise if exercise is performed). Most of your protein intake focused in this meal.

    3. If carbs are present in the diet, eat them with dinner.

    4. First meal set 5-8 hours prior to dinner, and at least 2 hours after sunrise. Moderate protein, high fat. Try to aim for a shorter window (5-hours) to prolong the fasted stated and get some of the benefits of intermittent fasting (if not leptin resistant).

    5. Food amounts are equally split between meals. This means eating more fat in the first meal and then reducing that fat load slightly during dinner.


    Here ends the practical post, now I want to discuss why I lay things out this way ...

    patgrif@hotmail.com likes this.
  8. yewwei.tan

    yewwei.tan Gold

    This post goes through varies concepts that underlie why I laid out the protocol above.

    ## Highest Rate of Protein Synthesis

    When I say "highest rate of protein synthesis", what I'm referring to is tightness in the collagen tensegrity structure.

    This effect requires low cortisol to happen. It is also scale independent, meaning that you have smaller distance between cells, between mitochondria, between large strands of muscle fiber, etc .... all systems are closer together, and therefore signalling effects are very efficient, quantum mechanical effects occur more readily, which implies that enzymatically-driven recycling and repair effects are much more efficient (note that enzymes depend on quantum mechanical proton tunnelling to work)

    Relevant 'Ask Jack' question on Seasonal Variation of this window (it is always in the last 2 hours before sunset) -- http://forum.jackkruse.com/index.ph...ly-window-of-maximal-protein-synthesis.11241/

    Having a food stimulus at this point in time is probably a good idea.


    ## Yoked to Circadian Signals

    First off, we need to define what does "being yoked to circadian signals" mean, so that we know exactly what we are trying to achieve. Don't forget that we are here to maximise health outcomes, and allow the body to be as energy efficient as possible.

    The usual definition of "Circadian Signal" means anything information and energy source, that is external to the cell, and which comes about as a result of the earth's rotation about it's axis, and the revolution of the earth around the sun.

    I personally just like to expand that to the concept of circadian signalling to "External Signalling" vs "Internal Signalling", with the boundary being the cells that we traditionally consider to be our "fleshpod" (credit to @sjoshua for the term).

    The goal of the body is then simply to match it's internal signalling mechanisms to respond properly to any external signals. You can say that all systems of the body simply strive for metastability given a changing external environment.

    All external environmental signals can be seen as a "stressor" that increase entropy, and demands a reaction. In order to react, a system needs to expend energy to reduce entropy, and this requires the notion of a before and after state -- creation of time.

    Sidenote: a virus that is enveloped in it's capsid is isolated from external signals, and does not need to react with internal signalling. It is immortal and lifeless.


    A circadian clock is simply something that measures these external signals, and relays that information to internal components of the system (the body), so that those other components knows what is going on.

    The study that Bill referenced showed that entrainment of the Liver's circadian clocks requires a food stimulus, and the clocks were entrained more strongly to the time of the largest meal, and to the first meal after a fast -- http://ajpgi.physiology.org/content/299/5/G1045

    I ask myself a fundamental question: What is the purpose of entraining the clock of a particular body component to a particular time of the day?

    It sounds logical to me that you simply need more signalling to and from a component when the demand placed on it is higher. In the case of the liver, this is when food is ingested.

    So does a "lack of liver entrainment stimulus" first thing in the morning due to a lack of food stimulus cause chaos in the rest of the system?

    I personally think that the answer depends on how much stress the liver is being subjected to, and therefore how much signalling it needs to partake in. Partitioning the nutrients from food can be thought of as "stress". Liberating liver glucose can be thought of as "stress". High morning cortisol, which exerts a liver glycogen conserving effect in most cases of intermittent fasting, is potentially "less stressful" than the insulin increasing effect of eating a bunch of protein in the morning.


    When is eating a lot first thing in the morning useful? When the peripheral clocks have become too insensitive to signalling stimulus due to too much chronic stress.

    Usually, this is a case where cortisol can no longer do it's proper job: both to spike quickly to wake you up, and then to subsequently decrease quickly so that signalling efficiency returns.


    ## Why Does Carb Backloading Done as per Kiefer's advice (night-time carbs) Seemingly Work to Improve Health Outcomes

    I think that:

    (a) Night time carbs are timed at periods when protein synthesis is high, and selective insulin sensitivity targeting of skeletal tissue through resistance exercise mitigates fat cell energy overload, and stops excessive fat cell leptin signalling to a large degree. (excess leptin signalling from fat cells is one way to get to leptin resistance)

    (b) Short insulin spikes that are back to baseline by bedtime, meaning that melatonin production isn't inhibited by chronically high insulin.

    Of course, I do not endorse the practice of eating right before bed. But a transient insulin spike done 3-4 hours before bedtime is not likely going to affect melatonin production and the subsequent prolactin surge.

    While advancement of both peripheral and central circadian clocks due to late night overfeeding is present, in most people, a 2-hour phase delay from eating dinner at 7pm when sunset is at 5pm is probably "not enough" to cause noticeable damage within the period of decades.

    I think that keeping a carb backload to the 2-hour window of max protein synthesis will get you the benefits of carb backloading without the circadian phase-delay.


    ## Real-World Body Composition Improvement Results

    Physique competitors have very clearly seen improved body composition and weight loss by doing high-fat-low-carb in the morning, and then low-fat-high-carb in the evening.

    Any time such changes happen, I view this as a net increase in energy.

    Now of course, the lesson of EMF4 is that you can use ATP-poor carbohydrates as "fast energy" that is ultimately not sustainable.

    Sidenote: insulin is coupled with high carb consumption, and carbs have lesser ATP production capacity to unfold proteins and expose water binding sites (lesser compared to fat).

    This coupling seems to hint to me that that insulin is something that forces amplification of cellular signals via a mechanism that doesn't depend as much on having lots of charged-separated cell water.

    The fact that insulin sensitivity goes hand-in-hand with increased membrane fluidity also hints to me that insulin binding to the cell membrane makes it more mechanically sensitive to flexoelectric and magnetoelectric stimulus.

    Some Metformin studies relating it's insulin sensitising effects to restoration of cell membrane fluidity.
    - http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/10443322
    - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299997012879


    ## Skipping Breakfast (or at least waiting a little while)

    In a Leptin Sensitive person, I tend to the practice of not ingesting any energy-containing food items until at least 2 hours post sunrise. Then if food is consumed, it should be as close to pure fat as possible.

    This is in the interest of:

    (a) Prolonging Intermittent Fasting. Waiting 2 hours before breakfast also seems to be pretty easy for most people to do, enhancing the adherence rate to an IF protocol.

    (b) Preventing Disruptions to cellular signalling and fatty acid oxidation

    Point (a) is pretty self-explanatory.

    Point (b) is a recommendation by Kiefer in his Carb Backloading protocol, which I think has to do with cortisol.

    When we wake up, cortisol levels are high, cells are more swollen, and have reduced electric and magnetic sensing capabilities. Now is the time to review Tensegrity #2 -- http://jackkruse.com/tensegrity-2-cortisol/

    When you eat anything (even pure fat), you will raise insulin to a certain degree. This is where I am still not 100% certain on the mechanism of insulin and its effects on cell membranes, which will have drastically different effects when a cell is less energy efficient in the context of high cortisol.

    But in general, research observations seems to point to the idea that high insulin + high cortisol at a time of increased insulin sensitivity => fat cell biogenesis => more Leptin Signalling.

    The rationale behind waiting 2 hours after sunrise is so that you have the opportunity to get sunlight into your system (red light in particular), so that you can re-zip collagen structures and restore cellular signalling capabilities, while letting cortisol fall to baseline levels.

    I see no downside to doing this if you are not Leptin Resistant. Even if you are Leptin Resistant, I don't think this is a harmful strategy; eating 2-hours post sunrise still entrains peripheral clocks to the appropriate time of the day, and still comes at a time where light-stimulus and Central Clock entrainment is coincident.

    Waiting 2 hours to have breakfast can be a pain on people's schedules though, and to this I have no easy solution.


    I think that's all the ramblings I'll do for now. Perhaps more in the future ;):D:p

    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
  9. Yew, thanks for those 2 posts, I find it quite useful and it is nice to read something by someone imbued with 'Krusian' principles. The whole 'circadian mismatch' idea is so powerful and deep I particularly like this sentence of yours

    "Sidenote: a virus that is enveloped in it's capsid is isolated from external signals, and does not need to react with internal signalling. It is immortal and lifeless.

    Nicely shows that we HAVE to react to the environment it is our 'burden' you might say. The burden of being alive and 'awake'. As Dr K has said we 'evolved' wakefulness, sleep is a more primordial state but 'awake' we are so we have to deal with it
  10. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Great stuff Yew. It is almost what I have been doing lately, but without knowing. Ok I have had lots of fat most dinners too but main fat in the mornings... and more protein for dinner. I also do best when I eat during daylight, and that is a bout 8-9 hour window here right now.

    I am going to watch this more closely and try to adjust even more into very high fat breakfasts, not too early, and early big protein dinners :) I am sure I am leptin sensitive by now
    having had BAB for years ;)

    I like :) I really like early dinners... feels great, it feels like my body really like a longer fasting time like 15-18 hours every night, it feels very natural
  11. Inger

    Inger Silver

    My calories for today were almost like yours above.... except I had way more fat :cool:

    Calories 2,858 (ooops..)

    Fat 78 %........ 255,4 grams
    Carbs 5 %..... ....37,4 grams
    Protein 17 %... 113,0 grams

    I do have days with less food too ;)
    bio-fractal-soul-self likes this.
  12. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    I eat epi-Paleo ketosis 100% - No adding of carbs, or starches.
    I fast each day 16-20 hours depending on my days schedule
    1st meal is noonish 11:00 or after.... and last meal is before or at sunset. Right now around 6
    I just skip breakfast and then have 2-3 meals.
    I train almost always fasted.... Some times (pre lifting) I have 10g of BCAA's
    Sometimes in the AM I may have a small cup of BP coffee.... usually nothing more than 100 calories. or splash of organic cream.
    I lift three days a week.....
    My largest meal always comes post workout and or at my first fast breaking meal. I do a bit of a protein refeed then and may throw in some greens and or avocados.
    I have oysters almost daily.... either raw or canned. Seafood every day.
    I cycle calories - Higher with more protein and fats on lifting days.
    Other days lower, deficit..... These days I do walking, mobility work, movement, sprints, and on Sunday a longer day 1-4 hours running depending on how I feel. It is my Movnat fun run with some intervals, trails, climbing trees etc.
    Always done fasted.
    So I eat within my circadian rhythm, CT, Ground, and eat like a great white........
    Right now my calories cycle 3800 on lift days MWF (3days a week) and 2900 on other days (4 days of the week).
    Right now it is giving me a slight BF cut while retaining strength. I am the leanest I have ever been. I would say between 5-6% BF
    I don't track macros.... I just eat the protein and fat foods I crave and feel that nourish me.... But it is a lot of seafood and good amount of fats....
    I may fly in some extra protein via a pure whey isolate smoothie with a raw egg and some greens blended post workouts followed up with oysters..... This seems to give me my PBL (protein back loading) via amino's and a insulin boost with amino's in the window after a workout. After that load up on fats and protein.... My vegetables act as fat carriers, soaking up the fat I cook it in and gives me something to chew on......
    I may throw in some blue berries or other berries this coming season but only a few here and there for flavor. I am sure I would stay in ketosis.......

    Other than that I only use fat and proteins to build my body and fuel my performance.....
    Fun stuff......
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
  13. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Very cool ^^^ :)
  14. Jenny S

    Jenny S Gold

    Great post thanks Yew. Explains a lot of stuff more clearly for me.
  15. Josh

    Josh Gold

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