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Raynaud Thread

Discussion in 'Cold Thermogenesis' started by villjamur_stevenson, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. gokhals

    gokhals New Member

    I can speak to this. I got Raynauds the first time in 1996, when I lived on the east coast, my garage door opener died, and I lifted the garage door manually (in freezing December) to get my car in. I was under stress, eating poorly, my Dad was dying and I was in the process of separating from my husband of nearly 15 years. I was really alarmed because my mother died of systemic Scleroderma, and it all started with Raynauds. Her fingers had turned into claws over 20 years, and the collagenous tissue underneath had hardened to stone by the time she passed away (after 20 years of progressive hardening of her lung tissue). She literally asphyxiated to death. The following year I moved to California. Raynauds got much worse. Especially after long hikes up and down local mountains. Especially when I suddenly stopped exercising (as in got home from a hike). Then I started noticing Sjorgens (severe) dry eyes, then my digestion cratered, then I developed asthma, I also developed severe allergies to fruit skins (apples/cherries/pears etc.). My fingers, which were previously 'model' fingers, lost their connective tissue and started looking like scrawny claws. My ring size went down 3 notches. My immune system in general became weaker. The first time my doc ever made me test my cholesterol (2005/6) - it was at 228. He told me this was too high! He recommended medication. I have an active resistance to medication. I had already refrained from using nebulizers/steroids for my asthma. I told him I would fix it with my diet. I doubled my zeal in eating his recommended low fat, vegetarian, high grain (oats) meals. This was probably the worst thing I could have done - and the last straw. After five years of this, in 2010, weakened and nutrient deprived, I got a debilitating office flu, lost 10 lbs literally overnight. My protein stores were dissipating. Muscles wasting. This is when I realized that something was terribly wrong with me, the standard diet recommendations, and the medical fixes currently in vogue. I was heading towards autoimmune disease. I decided to check the science for myself (I studied immunology/biochemistry in college), discovered the Weston A. Price Foundation's raw milk site purely by accident, GOT the science behind leaky gut and autoimmune disease - and went native in large, fast leaps. Raw milk fixed my asthma in under two months and made my bone spurs recede. Took about 60 days. I woke up one day and realized that the fungus on rose leaves and dust in the house did not constrict my breathing any more. I could breathe at ALL times. I was not using my plastic pillow at night anymore, and my rhinitis was history. The dark cloak of poor sleep fell off my shoulders. The new bone spur I was developing on my right foot stopped growing. For me, it was a MIRACLE. My Sjorgens (dry eyes) disappeared. That site led me to myths about Cholesterol, I started eating a high natural fat diet rich in cholesterol. Butter, Ghee and yolks primarily - lots of each. My Raynauds simply disappeared. I also started making my own ferments. Krauts, Sourdough bread, moved to 'organic only' foods and started making and drinking brothy soups (glycine). My digestion righted itself. I started eating pastured meats (after not eating meats at all for several years) and pastured eggs. What were known to be 'incurable', chronic conditions treated in the SAD world with Steroids, Statins and other toxic meds simply got healed. Contrary to what doctors indicated to me, these conditions were neither chronic, nor incurable.

    So all told, this 'fits and starts' journey took 14 years to accomplish. You could say I am a slow learner! But for those reading this forum, this does not have to be the case. Its worth it, to take two months out of your life to locate nearby vegetable farmers, dairy farmers, cattle farmers, farmers markets -- and learn to cook with their wonderful raw materials. Doing so is cheaper than medication, actually saves you costs - even though $7/lb meat might sound like highway robbery compared to $0.99/lb meat from Lucky's. Your productivity goes through the roof. And its better than feeling like a half dead zombie. Its also way more delicious. I advocate putting pencil to paper, i.e. spoon to skillet - if you want to be healthy. Cooking is the single most important condition to being free of disease. Start with easy recipes and fast foods. How fast is it to down a glass of raw milk or eat some raw beef/fish/oysters? Or eat a raw yolk? Its really easy to make salad dressings that are NOT made from PUFAs.

    I started 'icy-cold showering' a few months ago. The fat stores in various parts of my body started melting and reformatting themselves. A lot of other really good things started occurring (energy, libido, strong immunity, balance, mood, great hormones, melting of lipomas on thighs, disappearance of a sciatica like ache in my right groin, mental clarity, happiness...did I say LIBIDO?). I would say Raw Milk and Cold Showers have been two of the most transformative health treatments in my life.

    BUT after starting cold showers, my Raynauds re-appeared, knees/wrists started getting creakier. And I started bruising again. I upped my fats a lot. Ate sublingual B6/B12/folice acid from time to time. And those problems immediately started righting themselves. CT melts fat. If you are not fat to begin with, this is a problem. If you are a woman, your fat needs are materially different than a man's. Most Paleo sites apply 'man standards' to 'women'. This does not work. I am a woman. Ladies, eat more fats, ferments and broths to avoid autoimmune disease. Gents, do the same if you have symptoms of Raynauds.

    For me, it would not be an understatement to say Sally Fallon and Mary Enig saved my life. These two courageous women were CORRECT in their analysis, guidance and interpretation of science - unlike most other folks shilling medical or nutritional advice out there. They've not hesitated to call out conflicts of interest. And they are generous beyond measure - they've given it all away for free. Dr. Kruse likewise is brilliant, right and generous. Its nice to know people like this still exist! The next step for me is EMF. Dr. Kruse, I am learning a lot. THANK YOU.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  2. Inger

    Inger Silver

    What a great and encouraging post, thank you for telling your story :love:
  3. Renee

    Renee New Member

    Hi there .. I 'm new to all this and participating in the Optimal Reset 2014 - Learning sooo much! I suffer from Reynauds and CT scare the crap out of me because my fingers and toes become soo painful when I'm cold which is pretty much almost every day! If I get anything out of the freezer or it's slightly cold out - they freeze up instantly and turn white /blue and it's really painful. I also really struggle with maintaining weight and have lower body stubborn fat on my thighs especially - it has been impossible to loose this fat - even when I've done super keto diet and lost weight - my thighs remained heavy .. strange..
    I am a 48 yrs old female - post menopausal.. I went into menopause suddenly when I was 42 - like overnight it seemed.. everything changed! Lost libido, became extremely fatigued, chronically fatigued actually, adrenal burnout and an emtional train reck.. Also my disordered eating behaviour came back whivh hadn't really been an issue for several years. Reynauds showed up as well and low thyroid - cold intolerance and hair loss as well as brittle hair / nails, dry skin and very dry eyes. Painfully so..

    Just wondering how have you been able to do CT ? Did you start in the sink ? Have you tried a bath ? If so how does one get into the tub without getting feet and hands too cold?? Also you mentioned that your fat melted away.. I'd LOVE this to happen to me too ! ) .. I follow an ancestral diet as well .. eat really clean - paleo and going to get Jack's epiPaleo book - it's ordered already.. Bought some oysters today and typically eat lots of seafood / shrimp and wild BC and Alaskan salmon. I have Mercury and Lead toxicity as well and just started chelation therapy.. the magnetico matress pad seems like it might really help me .. I also think that I'm very Leptin resistant.. eating disorders all my life.. still struggle with binge eating.. .. Frankly I feel like a mess.. NO energy and through these past 6-7 yrs my health has been one struggle after another .. My redox sucks - I'm sure of it.. Going to start a Journal but was really interested in your post re Reynauds.. because this is the thing that keeps be stuck/scared about stating CT..
    thanks for sharing! It helps knowing others stories and how they are finding success in the journey back to optimal health!!

    thank you !
  4. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    Renee...just to give you some support...I too have had Reynauds and started to CT last year despite it. I choose to do short very cold sessions. I protect my hands and feet by wearing layers of wool socks and mittens. This winter things have been MUCH better, so there is hope. You can CT in a tub with your hands and feet out of the water completely....that has worked for some people too.
    Are you working with anyone to do labs and deal with cortisol, thyroid etc??
    Just as an aside I know Dr. K is not a big chelation fan....you might want to do a search to check out why that is....I'm not remembering the details. Glad to see you here.
  5. gokhals

    gokhals New Member

    Hi Renee,
    I do not do ice or tubs. I just do icy showers for 60 seconds AFTER hot showers. I started really slow and I howled at the top of my lungs while hopping up and down, the first time the icy shower hit my warm body. It got better over time :) Now I love it. I do not think I will get into an icy tub anytime soon. My metabolism is really fast, and I would probably lose all my body fat if I did that! Do not want to do that. How long have you been eating paleo? I would recommend fixing your food sources, and getting meals in order, before you do anything else. How much have you cut your pesticide, antibiotic and hormone load? Its high in supermarket produce and meats. Have you cut your PUFA load? You can cut it a lot by not eating out, especially salads. If compelled to eat out - I bring my own salad dressings to dinners/lunches. I trust you are avoiding soy products, protein powders and such. One of the most critical things you'll need to do for autoimmune conditions is to seal your gut - by eating ferments and ditching purposeful/environmental antibiotic consumption (via food, water etc.). Eating raw fermented meats and vegetables will help enrich your gut biome, create a nice thick protective bacterial lining on the inside of your gut wall, which will keep partially digested proteins from entering your blood stream and invoking auto-immune responses. These will also make foods easier to digest. Put a dollop of sauerkraut on everything you eat - meats, salads, fats, carbs. Tastes good too. Do you get plenty of iodine rich foods? Make sure you sleep through the night. Do you use an eye patch at night? Cut your EMF exposure. Be kind to yourself. Disordered eating likely means you've spent a lifetime eating low fat foods that led to binges down the road - because your body demanded them. This also points to stress in your life. Successive diets increase your weight set point - and sometimes there may be no turning back. That is ok. You will feel well, satisfied and nourished with high fat, nutrient rich foods. I'd advocate taking your time and creating habits of a lifetime. I'd also recommend you listen to your body. People of different backgrounds and ancestries appear to thrive on different diets. I do not do well on 'no-carb' diets. I would say I eat fats/carbs/proteins - in that order (by calories ingested). Different folks are different. I find eating my ancestral foods agrees with my metabolism. You will get there eventually. If you are in the No Cal/Bay area, check out Julia Ross's diet cure protocols. If not in the Bay area, read her book 'The Diet Cure'. She is an amazing person. Take care. I will hold good thoughts for you.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  6. nicld

    nicld Gold

    Hi Renee,

    I have issues with cold hand and feet too, have for YEARS. It was just recently that I heard about Reynauds and think that I have this to but just the phenomenon. I do ALOT of CT. When I started out I was make sure to keep the feet out and put clothes on the hands. The hands would be ok but the feet would still just freeze. Even after I was out they would get so cold and actually hurt to walk on them. I would have to heat them up when done and now I know why. I do have a pair of surfing booties that I wear every time I CT and still keep the feet out and that has really really helped. Recently, I hot some hot hands warming packets to stick in my shearling slippers when done and it has helped tremendously. I still have real issues with them getting cold while driving but hopefully it will start warming up.

    I am just like you too, most of my weight is in my thunder thighs and had most of the same symptoms that you did except the menopause. I had huge body issues and eating disorders. Someone I saw for helped called me and over weight anorexic (I have a video of a session with her on my optimal journal page if interested).

    I have become a HUGE fan of CT, how ever cold you can get it and how ever long you can sit in it, just do it, it does work. In combination with getting my thyroid fixed and my pg levels up (still not optimal yet) the CT has given me more energy, way easier to tolerate the cold and the libido is through the roof (hubby whines he cannot keep up).

    Just work in things one at a time and realize that it will take time, lots and lots of time.

  7. Renee

    Renee New Member

    HI Gokhals

    thanks so much for the great info.. I've been paleo now for 4 years this spring and I do eat lots of fermented foods, no PUFA's , absolutely NO processed food - rarely eat out , I buy grassfed / finished beef, wild caught fish, organic veggies, eat lots of liver and seafood, and make bone broth regularly ( fish, chicken and beef). I also eat sea veggies and upping the intake of those now that I've learned about their importance from the webinars and posts here.. I do sleep in a completely pitch black room - no lights at all.. but I do run a fan to make white noise to help with the outside traffic passing by.. should I stop that?
    Has your metabolism always been really fast or is that something that has improved with CT or other protocols?
    I have had a lot of weight gain / losses over the years.. always seems to be losing and regaining the same 15-20lbs.. very frustrating..
    I do have Julia Ross's books ( (I think she's awesome ) and I have many of the nurotrasmitters she recommends in my cabinet so I think I'll pull the book out again and see which ones could help me .. I know the LGlutamine I think helps with cutting sugar cravings down which is what has come up again lately..
    I do not personally do well with carbs.. they tend to set off the binging.. I have candida as well and it reacts to any carb intake - makes me feel crazy!
    thank you again for the wonderful advice and good thoughts my way!

    greatly appreciate it !
  8. Renee

    Renee New Member

    HI Nicole

    Wow.. thanks for the CT info.. I am going to look into neoprene boots ..they sound helpful.. and maybe have some warm water ready afterwards to warm up my feet.. although would that negate the effects of CT? ?
    When you say you do 'a LOT of CT' .. how much is a lot??... Did you find the CT helps with fat loss as well as energy increase? My thyroid is better with the medication but that's not optimal..I'd like to get it back to normal without the use of meds eventually .. I hear that's possible. I will check out the video you mentioned on your journal page.. thanks !
    I laughed about the libido.. I used to be like that in my thirties and early forties until 42 when it all just STOPPED..

    lots and lots of time.. hmm.. as long as I can start to feel like I'm making progress and on the right track that'll help at least.. it's the overwhelming fatigue that makes it all so unbearable most days.. if that improves that'll be so much nicer and give me courage and hope .. I never give up but just don't want to keep chasing around in circles with out making progress and wasting my time and money - I'm feeling really positive about all the teaching from Jack and this whole Optimal reset info..

    thank you again for your reply Nicole !

    warm regards,
  9. gokhals

    gokhals New Member

    Good to hear this. Your health will improve, with the good food you are eating and CT. My metabolism has always been fast, I usually have to work at keeping weight on. But it had slowed down considerably in the last few years. CT has been wonderful.

    Regarding extreme fatigue: Have you taken a lot of vaccinations, flu shots, antibiotics in your life? Do you or did you ever work in the armed forces where they give mandatory (esoteric) vaccinations? Have you read about the Gulf War Syndrome? Long science, but as a result, pathogenic bacteria mutate into wall-less forms of bacteria called round bodies. These may also be introduced as accidental impurities in vaccines. These are bacteria that are not detectable with standard dyes, live deep in tissues and cause long term chronic inflammation, fibromyalgic pain, low grade fevers etc. all hallmarks of autoimmune conditions. These round bodies develop antigens on their exterior that resemble those of their surrounding cells, the body gets confused, produces antibodies to these, and voila, its attacking itself. They reproduce very slowly, so low recurrent doses of specific antibiotics are used as effective treatment against these. You get em when they are about to reproduce. Lyme disease appears to be a variant of this condition. Olive leaf extract (google recipe) appears to kill this infection. Half a cup twice a day for 12-18 months. The tests for these exist but are dicey and expensive. Homemade olive leaf tea in my view is superior to antibiotics because it does not have the side effects of antibiotics. The test is you feel better, or not, depending on whether you have the infection or not. Olive leaf tea has been used successfully to treat MRSA infections as well.
  10. gokhals

    gokhals New Member

    And frequency.
  11. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    @Jack Kruse
    Per your description
    Eicosanoids play major role in Raynaud's
    that seems to tie up to possible AA deficiency.
    I noted that number of people that post, have low AA.
    Often it goes with high EPA.

    I think testing one's fatty acids could be prudent in those cases.
    What say you?

    Fatty Acid Profile, Comprehensive (C8-C26), Serum

    Likely one would also like to have Total Cholesterol in 200's
    Eicosanoids are signaling molecules made by the enzymatic or non-enzymatic oxidation of arachidonic acid or other polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) that are, like arachidonic acid, 20 carbon units in length.

    Pathways in biosynthesis of eicosanoids from arachidonic acid: there are parallel paths from EPA & DGLA.
    but mostly only AA really counts, because
    AA is a 20 carbon lipid chain with 4 double bonds (see Tech Notes), one of three eicosanoids (eico is Greek for 20), of which AA is the largest. The two other eicosanoids are DGLA, also an omega 6 lipid, and EPA, the only omega 3 eicosanoid. Of the total, AA comprises ~ 89% 61 of the three by volume, so it is the largest by a wide margin, overwhelmingly so.

    Also on this thread:
    I personally think it is the quick acting hormone system eicosanoids have gotten better......what controls it? BG 5 and all things mentioned above. At the core it is an Mg and adenosine issue that the Cox and Lox enzymes react too.
    Phenomena to Syndrome to disease are all train stops on the same line.......the difference is intensity and duration but a problem with the underlying fast acting eicosanoids system is the problem.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
    Joe Gavin and Richelle Jones like this.
  12. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  13. omegajosh

    omegajosh www.mitolab.com

  14. Butters

    Butters New Member

    So basically after reading all this, I dont think anymore I have raynauds. Maybe Im just not cold adapted when going outside in T-shirt and therefore getting cold feet and fingers like raynauds. But no blue there.
    What I notice is: After doing training I really pump out heat and can go sometimes hours with a heat burst that it is really uncomforable to be in a heated room and it is not really cold outside and here - fingers are warm.
  15. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Then you have too much deuterium in your fingers and toes. fix it
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    YOUR DRINKING WATER AND PLUMBING: The PVC pipes we use to carry drinking water are a polymer of vinyl chloride—one of the most biotoxic substances known to man. In the very first study about the dangers of vinyl chloride, published by Patty in 1930, it was disclosed that exposure of test animals to just a single short-term high dose of vinyl chloride caused liver damage. In 1997 the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) concluded that the development and acceptance by the PVC industry of a closed loop polymerization process in the late 1970s "almost completely eliminated worker exposures" and that "new cases of hepatic angiosarcoma in vinyl chloride polymerization workers have been virtually eliminated." Monomer leaching is possible and vinyl chloride can have acute dermal and ocular effects. Dermal exposure effects are thickening of skin, edema, decreased elasticity, local frostbites, blistering, and irritation. The complete loss of skin elasticity expresses itself in Raynaud’s Phenomenon. The US EPA and FDA limit vinyl chloride in drinking water to 0.002 ppm. Did you know vinyl chloride limits you ability to clear deuterium via your kidneys and gallbaldders because of a loss of charge in the basement membranes????? Chronic exposure leads to common forms of respiratory failure (emphysema, pulmonary fibrosis) and focused hepatotoxicity (hepatomegaly, hepatic fibrosis). Continuous exposure can cause CNS depression including euphoria and disorientation. Most drinking water pipes are made with PVC in modern home construction. Consider findaspring.com or use bottled spring water. Guess what..........it is a proton spin problem. BOOM.
    Alison N and JanSz like this.
  17. Butters

    Butters New Member

    So can eating too much cheese causing such problems :D? Im serious because I eat a riddiculous amount of cheese per week.
  18. Run360

    Run360 New Member

    I am also very curious to see how these post play out. I come from a family of 5 siblings. 2 of us share the same father, me and a sister. We are the only 2 that deal with this issue. Finger tips turn white but there has not been any consistency that i've been able to track. It can happen at 60 degrees one day while i'm fine at 35 degrees other days.

    I have been eating paleoish for years while my sister is SAD. Use to be a high carb ultra distance runner, swimmer, cycler, happened then and happens now. We have both been anemic, both had Spinal Meningitis as kids, and both lean to an active sympathetic nervous system.


    I eat high dha, follow the eating cycles of the season, CT regularly, follow a strict light cycle (live in PA), meditate. Even tried light and heat therapy though my wrist and still it comes and goes.

    Currently i'm doing a leptin reset (day 3), body heat has gone up. I'm focusing in on the pituitary.

    And YES use a local spring for ALL water.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018

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