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Discussion in 'Biohacking 101' started by cantweight, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. cantweight

    cantweight Gold


    You have mentioned this - Pyroluria- on a few threads.....I am officially curious.

    My gut reaction was oh this is just another word to label a bunch of common crap....

    Its just hitting home too much for me.....have you seen the doc you had linked to in VA?

    Thinking about making a trip down to Staunton.
    Shijin13 likes this.
  2. Josh

    Josh Gold


    This is Nora Gedgaudas's summary and questionnaire. I remember first encountering it in her book and now with new eyes, I am wondering what mechanisms that we are learning would be responsible for these s/sx's. The questionnaire covers most adrenal fatigue and excitotoxic s/sx's with the increased excretion as supposed proof of the syndrome. I am wondering what epigenentic mechanisms result in this phenomena and such???
  3. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    you know what's crazy is #17 in that questionair. I look just like my mom, and Chaos looks just like me. my mom has 4 sisters (they look a lot a like) and 5 brothers. I have a cousin who other than eye color and hair color - we look alike as well...
  4. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    Yes Josh that is exactly what I was thinking only with a much clumsier wording....what is this particular shit storm was mine ;)
    Shijin13 likes this.
  5. Gracelind

    Gracelind New Member

    My son tested for this two years ago, having many of the symptoms on the list. Some are unusual for a male including stretchmarks--on his back!

    He was negative--at least one condition was ruled out.
  6. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    Wild stuff...my mom is one of 5 girls and her mother a twin. I have no siblings from the same parents so cant tell there, but I do have a cousin on my dads side that looks like me....we even have a little brown speck in the same side of our blue eyes.

    @Gracelind ....was this a simple test a general doc will pull and insurance cover or do I have to go to the crazy doc and pay through the nose?
  7. Gracelind

    Gracelind New Member

    @cantweight Test is a urinalysis that can be ordered by the patient. Probably not covered by insurance. Around $80-90. Here's one lab's info. I have no experience with this lab, don't know which one my son used.

    @Josh A quick search is showing association between zinc and B-6 and also copper.
  8. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    The zinc/copper/B6 connection is a big part of what caught my eye. My children constantly had/have issues with high or low values.

    Of course this only bolsters Jacks push for oysters....I just cant get my younger 2 to eat them, they tried once and couldnt get them pass the lips. We'll keep trying though!

    Im gonna test for this just for the hell of it....curiosity if you will.
    Shijin13 likes this.
  9. Josh

    Josh Gold

  10. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Essentially it appears to be an issue handling heterocyclic amines which is directly related to proper methylation which as we have learned is directly related to having a decent redox. When we do not have a decent redox, we may express SNP's and such....It is probably as Dr. Smith suggests an issue tied to this area. Thus, throughout history, a certain percentage of people have consistently appeared to have a "syndrome" that might be modeled around the inability to metabolize these compounds. It improves with supplementation in enough of them for long enough for someone to say that this is an "effective treatment" and this makes it "real". Again, like so many issues we are reviewing, this does not make it "real" in terms of quantum biology where we actually have a rigorous review of the mechanisms involved. It appears that under certain COE's with a given group of N=1, the "syndrome" appears enough to be noticed. No doubt it is increasing in "prevalence" as we know that COE's are not favorable to good redox at this time. It seems that as Dr. Smith suggests, we ought to focus on providing the nutrients required to upregulate and or replace the function of the deficient systems. Dr. Kruse suggests we focus on the root metabolic and cell membrane dysfunctions that typically precede the failure of everything else. With both of these approaches, we should see the related "issues or s/sx's" improve. Simple, not easy....a "syndrome" treated with 3 easy to obtain nutrients is so much more "comfortable" to "confront" for all involved....

    I await my imminent drawing and quartering.....
    Cpt.Tired, Shijin13 and cantweight like this.
  11. Jude

    Jude Gold

    Beautifully summarized Josh..............
  12. Penny

    Penny New Member

    Good times... I don't even pretend to fathom what I'm about to post, but it seems that certain pathogens affect this enzyme-with-a-very-long-word-ase and this in addition to some genetic markers (which I haven't looked up at 23andme to see if it correlates with what I'm seeing) might cause the phenomena of "pyroluria" - I googled "pylori pyroluria" to see if there is a correlation as my kid has a couple of urease producing bugs which act just like h pylori and this what I came up with - I would like to be able to fathom the mechanism in which a biotoxin screws up the kryptopyrole part of heme synthesis and maybe it has something to do with the following:

    Helicobacter pylori-induced indoleamine 2,3-dioxygenase activity in vivo is regulated by TGFB1 and CTLA4 polymorphisms.
    Raitala A1, Karjalainen J, Oja SS, Kosunen TU, Hurme M.
    Author information

    The chronic gastric infection caused by Helicobacter pylori is known to be associated with several, probably interrelated, immunomodulatory effects, such as protection from atopic diseases, induction of CD4+ CD25+ T regulatory (T(reg)) cells and increase in indoleamine-pyrrole 2,3-dioxygenase (IDO) -dependent suppressive mechanisms. As these mechanisms, as well as the strength of the infection, are very probably genetically controlled, we selected candidate genes (TGFB1, CTLA4) known to be involved in the activation of T(reg) cells. We examined the association of their polymorphisms (TGFB1 C-509T, CTLA4 A+49G) with blood IDO activity in H. pylori seropositive individuals. Genotypes were determined from 391 healthy adults. H. pylori infection was verified by detecting H. pylori IgG antibodies in sera. Concentrations of tryptophan (trp) and kynurenine (kyn), the main metabolite, were determined by reverse-phase high-performance liquid chromatography, and kyn/trp ratio was used as an indicator of IDO activity. The activity was higher in H. pylori seropositive individuals, but this increase was only detected in individuals with CTLA4+49 AA genotype or in carriers of TGFB1-509 allele T. This suggests that H. pylori induced IDO activity is regulated by TGFB1 and CTLA4, and that IDO is a mediator of the T cell suppressive effects of these genes.

    What interested me is I wondered which pathogens correlated to the amount of zinc/b6 being excreted - i.e. if my kid has a pyroluria test that comes up with a 30, this might be a basic gut swamp, but if someone with Lyme had an astronomical amount greater than say 50 and you could reproduce it, it might be used as a lyme indicator...

    Not sure why the zinc copper ratio affects manganese but I think I've been told that without enough molybdenum, the zinc/copper ratio is screwed up... Josh indicated that molybdenum given in small amounts during the day is more helpful than one big dose, but I have no idea how much molly-be-damned people are taking - Yasko told us to take a cap and her caps have 500 mcg so that's all I know about it - if anyone can find any other research on the mechanism, post ho:)

    I read an md figured out the mechanism but can't find the link... all I know is zinc is a huge part of health...
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    Cpt.Tired and cantweight like this.
  13. Josh

    Josh Gold

    500mg of molybdenum is a too high, it would be 500mcg.....
    Penny likes this.
  14. just about every functional/integrated medicine doc in australia seems to be diagnosing this on every one of their patients...
    must be the new buzz word.
  15. but yes it relates to methylation etc etc
  16. cantweight

    cantweight Gold

    So would it be easy to test supplementation without medical supervision on this? I always get nervous with the kids...I like when the supplements come via food for this reason but I think we may need an extra push to help balance the scales in our favor.
  17. last one i saw was in a woman about 29, the functional med doc dx her with pyrol disorder, but simply going epi-paleo and avoiding blue light turned her right around...
  18. Penny

    Penny New Member

    OSF 7 is my own personal blog post... :)
  19. Penny

    Penny New Member

    From the same author as above, except his heavy metal page - excellent:


    the problem IMHO of just taking a shot at supplementing zinc/P5P is unless you have an idea of how much zinc/b6 you are excreting, your test might be invalid... for instance, say you have Lyme, Dr. Klinghardt says you could be excreting 150 mg of zinc per day and thus supplementing a "mere" 100 mg /day of zinc would do nothing... which would be the "standard" pyroluria protocol... but if you had general gut dysbiosis, it might be fine... which is why I think it would be interesting for someone on this forum with Lyme to get a pyroles test to see how astronomical your number is... my own curiosity really...

    So, if your enzymes are "blocked" because of heavy metals, you can displace the metals with zinc, selenium and magnesium, but you must "catch them" as they are dislodged or they just lodge somewhere else and the trip through the bloodstream is painful... this is why Klinghardt and the guy above will tout silica (horsetail) and chlorella if you take a high amount of zinc...

    Me, I'm giving my kid Yasko's Metalaway because it looks pretty safe and it seems to have everything one would need for a safe albeit slow detox...

    It seems to me that if you give zinc, you can give horsetail (silica) at the same time and mitigate some risk...

    Personally, I'm taking 800 mg of EDTA and 1800 mg of malic acid and eating garlic on an empty stomach... using Dirk Pearson's formula as a model - but I had a lot of amalgam fillings and used aluminum antiperspirants for years... I'm also eating cilantro on my eggs in the morning and taking a mineral tablet -
  20. Cpt.Tired

    Cpt.Tired New Member

    What is 'CEO'?

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