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Post workout carb eating?

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by PaleoDentist, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    For powerlifting CT is a huge recovery tool.....all NFL and NHL teams use it now for this reason
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    When you are cold adapted you burn straight fat and you make any glucose you need from TG's......you become super efficient but as I said the performance part elite athletes want comes at 24-36 months. Now some of the best athletes in the world are using CT. And they are pushing the boundaries.
  3. Continuum Fitness

    Continuum Fitness New Member

    Got it Doc. it all has to do with CT and cold adaption. thanks
  4. SimonM

    SimonM New Member

    One quick point - what you are calling "compression" and what Vesper calls "compression" are apples and oranges. From what I understand from the website, the Vesper wraps are more like tourniquets - much greater force being applied to actively (almost) block blood flow and INCREASE build up of lactate.
  5. SimonM

    SimonM New Member

    Maths is not my strong point, but according to the calculators I've found online you are using a kcal per minute of running at 9 or 10:00 per mile pace and a guesstimate at my weight (I guess). Obviously, I am running sub-5:00 per mile pace - kcal cost is way higher - and I am 149lb.

    I'm prepared to put in the year or two Jack says are necessary to adapt to CR and keto, but as I've said in previous posts, my hesitancy is due to the fact that there are no examples of speed athletes having any success. Jack continues to mention elite athletes using CR, but I guess because of confidentiality cannot mention names. Meanwhile, all the high performers he has mentioned as being prime examples of what can be achieved - Armstrong, Phelps and the Sherpas - all eat high-carb.

    If you'll excuse me banging on about this - it's not a question of whether or not we can do short intervals, or high intensity workouts on keto or low carb (with or without CT), as clearly we can...it's a question of the quality/speed of those intervals. I'd like to see some records/ results/examples that show that world-class performances are possible.

    Cheers Barry.
  6. SimonM

    SimonM New Member

    Barry, the other bit we've NOT mentioned is that (duh!) fat metabolism requires oxygen and in the anaerobic-dominant events we don't have the 02 it requires. (Oh, and I'm at altitude, which doesn't help!) Now what would be REALLY interesting is if the CT/keto adaptation somehow changes that!

    Dr K - some help here??????
  7. ChristineKleiber

    ChristineKleiber New Member

    Thanks both Simon and Barry for your comments. I got into all of this because I was a 47 year old crossfitter suffering from crappy sleep, lousy recovery, and ultimately was trading DOMS for same day pain - even though I was eating 90% + paleo/primal. Performance is on my radar screen, but functionality/longevity has to come first - that was a promise I made when I became a parent right? IOTW, I don't really care if I have to scale a WOD or do a different WOD altogether. I just want to be doing the RIGHT WOD and eating the RIGHT food to go with it.

    I need a graphic that somehow plots anaerobic/aerobic exercise against duration against temperature/cold adaptation and is then somehow superimposes what type of pathway the body is in and then how you would best fuel before, during, after the exercise.

    Some sort of x, y, z axis, color and pattern coded gem that would make it easier to figure this out.

    Just another N=1 who wants to eat and move to be well for a good long time.

  8. Try putting on a squat suit. It is not under armour like material. You struggle and sweat getting that thing on. It constricts like mad. It IS like a tourniquet.

  9. Does your CF box offer strength only classes, or the option to do strength only portion of a class, and opt out of the metcon? Though I realize that many CF boxes just offer metcons, there are a few like mine, that are strength biased and have lots of strength only workouts and/or strength followed by short conditioning. We also have lifting only classes where they can follow a custom program we've written, or one they have come up with. Another idea is scale workouts yourself, telling the coach what you plan on doing, rather than doing "their" version of scaled. Generally I'd have people scale reps and rounds and/or time limit on an amrap. If people have health issues, I generally scale all 3, or just give another workout altogether.

    Your coaches should be amenable to your requests. If they aren't, I'd suggest finding a new box, or following another box's programming from home. HTH
  10. ChristineKleiber

    ChristineKleiber New Member

    Teenie Leek

    Definitely! Seems that the pure strength days/ metcon days in our box- are less obvious than they used to be. It is definitely harder to program/plan yourself, when WOD's are posted the night before. Totally concur that you can program yourself within a box, but there are limits to how much you can do that and still feel like a member of the box. During the Leptin Rx, I just went in and did one of KStarr's MWOD's. Now it is time to figure out what next... I would just as soon do Oly lifts 2 days a week and 2 body weight metcons and hope that is enough and not too much. No clue yet on timing either... since I did an 0515 class before breakfast until I started the leptin reset. I guess working out fasted before lunch and then eating x or y for lunch based on whether or not it was a strength or a metcon would be one way to go about it.

  11. hmmm, I disagree, I have people who "do their own thing" and people following what's on the board, and everyone (to my knowledge) feels right at home.

    I have members who I tell ahead of time what the workouts are, because I don't want their individual programming to get messed up. Many times I will tell them to come in anyway, if the wod is front squats followed by a 15 mim metcon, and they are supposed to be back squatting and pressing, they can still come in, back squat with the class (as they front squat) and then press as the others are doing the conditioning. They often cheer on the others in between sets, and play a supportive role. It is actually very nice to see.

    IS there any way you can find out the workouts ahead of time? And I believe Jack has said optimal time for working out is 1-5pm, although I realize this not possible for most people. Where are you located? I'm in Bergenfield, NJ
  12. Barry

    Barry New Member


    my only advice would be this - don't follow any x,y,z axis chart with fancy colours and patterns !! Use the key principles related to health and fitness - keto/paleo template, low stress, good sleep, natural movement/strength based exercise etc... then go on feel and listen to your own body ! it knows best... no PT or WOD chart is going to know how you feel and think...

    Teenie Leek's advice is good... partition your strength/HIIT sessions based on feel.

    But like I said, above all, be good to your body and it will return the favour !

  13. SimonM

    SimonM New Member

    Yeah what he said :)

    No, but really,as my coaching mentor Ian King has said, sports scientists are actually sports historians... they are so far behind that you won't find a graphic that is up to date, let alone can stay up to date. Besides which, thanks to Jack, we are doing stuff (CR) that no one else has looked at it yet, and as you can see from the discussions here, we are still trying to work out what the effects are on energy systems and how to fuel and so on.

    The other thing is that the "right" training for you depends totally on your long-term goals, which you've clearly stated, and on breaking them down into specific attributes, or qualities, that you want to develop. So you are prioritising longevity - what does that look like for you, and what do you need to achieve it? Similarly, "functionality" - an exercise isn't functional because some functional fitness guru says it is - it is functional if it fits your unique needs/goals. So functional for what, excactly?

    The only thing I would add to Barry's comment is that in the "listen to your body" category, pay equal or more attention to your performance figures - that is, record and chart your performances. I have often had brilliant sessions when, going in, I have "felt" like crap. I set my 400m PR on a day when I had been physically sick a couple of hours before. If you are obsessive enough to also keep some brief record of your food choices and timing, plus weather (temp and pressure), then you may start spotting some patterns.
  14. Barry

    Barry New Member


    I'm with you here in terms of elite athletes and performance measures. I do think that you are possibly creating a psychological barrier in thinking that it is not possible or hasn't been done before. Remember Roger Bannister ?? Like everything, you must believe it is possible in order for it to happen.

    But without getting into a philosophical debate, I think speed energy production is possible through low carb. As I said, you don't need much to run 100m or even 1 mile efforts. And of course you haver your PCr system as well as the others I've mentioned, in addition to the ones we may not know about yet ! And yes, fat burning needs oxygen... but PCr, Cori and Glucose/Alanine doesn't !

    Re CGK advice - very good points, especially related to tracking your own performance, good/bad days etc. Oh, we're not all "sports historians" though ;-)
  15. SimonM

    SimonM New Member

    Interesting point, Barry. Bannister was not only medically trained but was researching 02 uptake by breaking down runners on a treadmill - and this in the 1950s! He had the advantage over everyone else chasing the sub-4 mile in that he knew from his experiments that 3 x 400 in 60sec + 1 x 400 in 59 WAS physiologically possible. So I'm looking for pre-attempt data, too :)

    And I have a wonderful anaerobic energy source in lactate (which I train to use) thanks very much, without all your other esoteric and/or unknown pathways!!!! hahahahahahaha :D

    I was looking on some of the low-carb forums to see what others' experience was. One guy, a cop doing SWAT team training, was adamant that going Very Low Carb had no negative effects whatsoever on his "high intensity" training. The basic plank of his HIT was running 1.5 miles in just under 12 minutes! Yes quite. I train with 60-year-old+ women who can do repeat miles at that pace. Another guy agreed that VLC was the way to go for HIT: he runs marathons. So just for the record, what I'm looking at is the optimal fuel for repeats at a minimum of 90 per cent VO2 max.

    Interestingly, one guy said he'd had a intensity performance fall-off when he went low-carb, and had "cured" it by adding in more fat - to the extent of "snacking" on tablespoonfuls of oil. (MCTs anyone?) You mentioned you were eating loads of fat. Maybe that is a missing factor for me - get fat intake to >40 per cent? Any thoughts?
  16. malinamartis

    malinamartis New Member

    But i must suggest you should consume the food which do not have any kind of of fat oil, this may be lead to increase bad over muscles on your body. So avoid eating more oily food this can also helps in your weight control too.


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