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Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by TheKid, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. TheKid

    TheKid Gold

    Hey All,

    I am wondering if people our there have any experience with Plaquenil to treat autoimmunity. I have Antiphospholipid Syndrome and Hashimoto's and because I tend to have periodic, severe autoimmune flares, my doctor wants me to be on Plaquenil to help prevent these episodes from happening.

    The risk info on the insert is scary, what with mention of heart attacks and all. But the major concern seems to be macular degeneration, with the risk for this increasing the longer you take this stuff.

    I was thinking that maybe i could use it as a bridge until I get to a point where my immune system is in better balance. I am just concerned that my autoimmune flares are doing damage to my body and I don't want to harm organs or other important parts of my body just because I don't like to take medicine.

    Any advice would help. Thanks.
  2. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    Hey Kid, I don't know anything about the drug. I do know that lithium, a salt that my daughter was on flips a lot of switches the wrong way, and we seem to be fighting an uphill battle with the phospholipids. I'm kind of getting that you can't supplement with any success until you get them flipped back, which shouldn't take very long. Some genes switch in hours, some in two weeks, and some in one month. Then there is always the trying learn what is circadianly appropriate and the pitfalls or whatever. Why don't you try to see what Plaquenil does? and then google the description or pathways ? I have never taken any kind of prescription medication except for a rotten tooth with any success. I probably could've used vitamin c. I'll see what I can find. What happens with you auto immune flares, if its not too personal?

    We are finding that with kidney trouble you are supposed to avoid phosphorus, which is the very thing we need the most... for phospholipids. It seems like maybe if you focused on your kidneys like doc mentioned in the webinar, you might gets some relief. The selenium, methionine, choline and inositol are supposed to be really good anti-oxidants. And the magnesium is like a great wonder drug. And honestly, the lithium really needs to be there, it has magical powers, its just trying to hit the right balance. Our new plan is to cocktail with betaine and lithium orotate and give the kidneys a break. I think they should be taken together. But, hey, that's just me.

    If you google lithocholic acid, you might be impressed. It fixes everything.

    Also, if you have a good day where you are soaking things in, the sesamin increases absorption a lot and helps with weight loss. Combined with quercetin, it protects the some part of the brain we need to not get excited and let the phosholipids do their thing in a petrie dish. Those two work together, not separately. I know the K2 is a huge player as well. I don't think avoiding phosporous is right.

    Dude, I just looked. Its just an anti malarial. That's what my kid takes. The lithium and betaine and lots of magnesium might help you better. I've been searching for parasites for years. My grandmothers were both diagnosed with malaria and had goiters. Then I got to thinking about how hillbillies crack open boiled squirrel heads and mash their brains into a biscuit. My grandpa fed them to my kids. I thought she had mad cow or something. We need to partner up.
  3. TheKid

    TheKid Gold


    Thanks for the reply. I am wading in deep water on my autoimmune issues. I have both Antiphospolipid Syndrome and Hashimoto's. And with those two, who knows what else I have lurking.

    ANyhow, you asked about my autoimmune flares. Well here's what happens:

    Poor concentration & cognition (fuzzy thinking)

    Poor memory (both short and long-term – I feel like I am living only in this very moment)

    Tendency to mentally “drift offâ€￾

    Stabbing abdominal pains (especially left side below rib cage)

    Pain & irritation on my right side just under my ribs

    Immense pressure and tension in chest

    Sharp, painful pinch in the middle of my chest

    Shortness of breath

    AWFUL cramping all over body. Much worse at night.


    Pain in my throat and under my chin

    Mild, moderate and severe headaches that can come and go

    General lack of energy

    Episodic, extreme bouts of fatigue that leave me incapacitated

    Extreme plantar fasciitis in my right foot

    Extreme bursitis in my right wrist

    Extreme neck pain, middle back pain and lower back pain

    Pain throughout my rib cage

    Eyelid twitch

    Pain in my pelvis (dull pain similar to being kicked in the groin)

    High blood pressure with spikes

    Strong feelings of anxiety

    Being awakened at night with pounding heart, chest pressure and discomfort and occasional sharp abdominal pains

    Very little sex drive (when it does come, it shows up momentarily and then disappears)

    Consistent minor constipation – I defecate twice daily on average, but I don’t pass the stool easily and often have to push some. This happens despite my drinking adequate water.

    Anal and prostate pain and irritation

    Bouts of hypoglycemia despite what appears to be good blood glucose labs & carb restriction

    Very infrequent episodes of energy. Almost like a burst of energy and feeling of well-being that passes after no more than a day or so.

    Persistent “frog in the throat feelingâ€￾ + throat clearing with mucous production

    Variability in my response to cold temperatures

    Sharp pains that move around, starting in abdomen, moving to chest, ending in neck and under my chin

    Any stress (no matter how small) seems to send me off the deep end (esp. chest discomfort)

    When not in an accute flare, some of these symptoms ease, while others persist, but with less severity. So all in all, it's terribly uncomfortable and downright scary, especially with the chest pains. Makes me feel like I'm having a damn heart attack.

    I've resisted Plaquenil because you risk macular degeneration. Additionally, I believe it will suppress immune function, which is not what I want. I want to reestablish proper balance.
  4. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    We feel much better with the just the potassium and magnesium. They help the bms from all I'm reading. We got some Russian kind of anxiety pill that nips things really quickly. Its called Phenibut. and then we are taking the 250 mg of betaine in the middle of each meal. My daughter slept 12 hours last night and we don't know why because we've added two things at once. Also every other meal we're taking 5mg of actual lithium (120 mg of lithium orotate) I kind of have the feeling that its all of them. Also, to sleep, she is taking Picamolar 50 mg and 200 mg glycine. The infuriating part of our situation is that a lot of it was for sure electrolytes. And we take the acetyl carnitine because its good for your heart. I keep reading about the heart and kidney troubles cause heart attacks. Also, another thing we added was the sesamin/vitamin c/ quercetin cocktail it helps with bones and inflammation. We finally got the good k2 for the phosphurus/phospholipid problems. The choline and inositol is supposed to be pretty good for panic pain. The choline goes with the lithium.

    I was reading the part about hypoglycemia. My daughter doesn't sense hunger that well and fades. We don't know why either one of us are that way, because we eat lots. I bet in the end it all boils down to the k2. Just guessing. I think we're going to get better from it. The phosphorus has to go somewhere and you can't be so different that you are supposed to eat carbs forever. Its a bone thing just like we've got. We have a calcium problem, which defaults to every other kind of bone mineral problem there is. Her gene screen showed her as having a difficult time storing and processing fat, but the medicines she was on caused it. She was getting the bloat gone, with no carbs, but didn't get her strength until the acetyl carnitine. The potassium deficiency makes your guts act really weird too. They will puff up and hurt and do nothing. If you get really good at going bobo you'll sure feel better.

    I just read an exercise article that it takes a month to be a fat burner in the muscles. I might have misunderstood something, but I think when everything gets going right, it will be a month from then.

    I just hope you don't get desperate and eat carbs. I dreamed about cookies last night and that isn't me at all. I bet my gut flora sent crazy signals.

    We are sure that we need that cycloset, but I think we are just going to call the drug company and have them find us a doctor.
  5. chocolate

    chocolate Silver


    this is a good link

    and then you have to have magnesium to absorb calcium and you have to have vitamin k2 to tell the calcium where to go and if it doesn't know where to go the phosphorus gets squirrelly and lands in plaques, its just one thing after another. And you need selenium and sulfur. All of that, just to get your crummy phospholipids. And taking a phospholipid pill won't work right unless you have your potassium. But you also need to take vitamin c for sure with your meat, to break up the plaques. We have ours with our Quercetin./sesamin. It helps you absorb more dha and makes your vitamin e last longer. It also uses a different pathway so Asian people like me can drink, so who knows what else it can hopscotch. And it helps turn fat into bone in a petrie dish. And it helps weight loss, with boron, which can be bad for the kidneys ( it think that was old news before vitamin k2 remember, that's what repairs teeth). Boron helps regulate growth hormone and can help you lose weight and heal.
  6. chocolate

    chocolate Silver


    This whole article is important. we have the symptoms of too much calcium in the brain.... if I had to guess why your phosphorus isn't going there, I would guess you have too little. We found out that you need magnesium in order not to dump calcium. We need the k2 to direct the calcium. Everyone does. I think it means that if you have too little magnesium, by default you have too little calcium. But what we're up against is the glucose in the brain is different from the stuff we measure. I am going by the fix the body, the brain will follow. K2 will go to your brain and put it there if you need it, I don't know if it goes from your plaques to you brain or your plaques to your bones then to your brain. That's my thinking straight out of bag.
  7. Hey Kid,

    the plaquinil sounds scary, go with your gut! I have hashi's have you tried upping your Vitamin A along with Vitamin D? Increase Vit k1, k2, e and vitamin c. Probiotics with reuteri is supposed to help balance immune system between th1 and th2 too.

    potassium is hard to get on low carb, have you tried supplementing it? Nuts online sells potassium bicarb, I often taking 1/4 tsp at night in water along with magnesium supp.
  8. chocolate

    chocolate Silver


    [Changes in mineral metabolism in stage 3, 4, and 5 chronic kidney disease (not on dialysis)].

    This is kind of the opposite of you, or maybe not. I know there is lots of aluminum in Alzheimers and after reading and reading, the best practice for managing the aluminum seems to be to replace the magnesium, AGAIN. It makes the aluminum irrelevant. Every thing I've also read says that the aluminum has no purpose in the body, but it must. Maybe the aluminum is hoarding your phosphorus in your brain or somewhere, just waiting for the magnesium. It is my daughter's new drug of choice. I think your panic attacks mights stop so fast if you have more of it, with the potassium. Anyway, I'm not scared of aluminum any more. I just wonder why it is so heavy in CA.

    And the betaine, so you can make your own nerve meds. Lithium orotate will shut an attack right down.
  9. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    Polymorphism of glutathione S-transferase P1 gene affects human vitamin C metabolism Biochemical and Biophysical Research

    This is about a tumor being resistance to a drug, but maybe some of this stuff will help. I take melatonin and hope it turns into glutathione. Its all brain gut stuff.
  10. chocolate

    chocolate Silver



    Dietary cod liver oil decreases arachidonic acid in rat gastric mucosa and increases stress-induced gastric erosions.

    Science Institute, University of Iceland, Reykjavik.


    The purpose of this study was to examine the influence of long-term feeding of dietary fat rich in either n-3 or n-6 fatty acids on the availability of arachidonic acid (20:4n-6) in major phospholipids of gastric mucosa in rats. Three groups of male Wistar rats were fed either a standard diet, a cod liver oil-enriched diet (10% by weight), or a corn oil-enriched diet (10% by weight) for 8 mon. Dietary cod liver oil significantly reduced the level of 20:4n-6 in phosphatidylcholine (PC) and in phosphatidylethanolamine (PE) of gastric mucosa. The loss of 20:4n-6 was compensated for by eicosapentaenoic acid (20:5n-3) in PC, whereas the decrease in 20:4n-6 in PE corresponded to the increase in three n-3 fatty acids: 20:5n-3, docosapentaenoic acid (22:5n-3), and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3). The level of 20:5n-3 was higher than the level of 22:6n-3 both in PC and PE of mucosa in rats fed cod liver oil. Diets supplemented with corn oil increased the level of 18:2n-6 but decreased the monoene fatty acids 16:1 and 18:1n-7 in PC but not in PE of gastric mucosa. The 20:4n-6 levels of both PC and PE were markedly reduced by dietary cod liver oil, to about one-third of control levels. Similar changes were also observed in the stomach wall. Gastric erosions were observed in all rats exposed to restriction stress, but this form of stress induced twice the number of erosions in rats fed fish oil compared to control rats or rats fed corn oil. We conclude that a diet rich in fish oil altered the balance between n-6 and n-3 fatty acids in major gastric mucosal phospholipids, markedly reduced the availability of 20:4n-6, and increased the incidence of gastric erosions induced by restriction or emotional stress.

    This is box number 5... maybe if you did a teaspoon and half of olive oil, it would help... that's what we do on lettuce
  11. chocolate

    chocolate Silver


    this is just the tail end of the abstract. And it is rats.
  12. chocolate

    chocolate Silver

    The tail end of this article sounds just like your problem to me. I might not understand it correctly.



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