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Pineal Calcification, Melatonin Production, Aging, Associated Health Consequences and Rejuvenation o

Discussion in 'The Cave' started by Penny, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    figure 3 and b.png

    figure 3 c and d.png

    figure 3 e and f.png

    figure 3 g and h.png

    Fig. 3

    Urinary Si excretion (mg/3 h) over the 6 period following the ingestion of: (a) an orthosilicic acid (OSA) solution containing 21·4 mg Si (n 5); ...(g) choline-stabilised orthosilicic acid (ChOSA) containing 20 mg Si (n 8); ...Results are means, with standard errors represented by vertical bars (n 5-14, see Table 1). Si-containing supplements and products were ingested at the maximum dose recommended...


    First, concentrating on the Si sources of known speciation (i.e. fluids and food supplements), our data confirm what has been suggested previously, namely that the degree of polymerisation of Si (i.e. as silicate) is inversely proportional to its intestinal absorption(1,12-14). In other words, monomeric silica (Si(OH)4, orthosilicic acid, soluble silica), which is a small, neutrally charged molecule, is readily absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract, while larger, charged polymers and colloidal species need to be broken down to the soluble monomer in the gastrointestinal lumen before absorption(13,14). The rate (kinetics) of dissociation or dissolution of the polymers or colloids will depend upon the degree of polymerisation(12,18).

    The solubility limit of silica is about 2-3 mm at intestinal, peri-neutral pH(18). Drinking water and other beverages, including beer, have total Si concentrations lower than 2 mm and, thus, predominantly contain the soluble monomeric species giving high gastrointestinal absorption(15). At higher Si concentrations (>2-3 mm), as is present in most supplements, larger and less absorbable polymers or colloids of silica are present. The exception is MMST, which is presented as a silica supplement in solution, and where a methyl group replaces one hydroxyl group of orthosilicic acid, which raises the solubility limit of Si and maintains it in a small, monomeric and well-absorbed(19) form. ChOSA, also presented in solution, albeit highly concentrated, is polymerised, although extensive polymerisation and aggregation of silica particles are prevented by the presence of a high concentration of choline in the supplement
    . This we confirmed with ultra-filtration of the supplement (which is a viscous fluid) without dilution, finding negligible Si that was ultra-filterable (less than nominal 3000 kDa), but upon dilution to 1 + 155 with pH 7 buffer, 58 % of the Si was then ultra-filterable (data not shown). Thus, the choline protects the silica from extensive polymerisation and precipitation by maintaining it in aqueous suspension, so that upon further dilution before ingestion it will start to depolymerise to form orthosilicic acid. Clearly this is not as efficient as starting with monomeric silicate, but goes some way to achieving de-polymerisation and bioavailable Si(OH)4 (i.e. 17 % absorbed from ChOSA v. 45-65 % from the other sources). In contrast, ‘colloidal silica’, which is in fact precipitated and completely polymerised silica, showed very low absorption (less than 2 %), presumably because it is so aggregated and the rate of hydrolysis in the gastrointestinal lumen is slow compared with the window of opportunity for absorption in the small bowel. It is well recognised that silica is more soluble under near-neutral conditions (intestinal conditions) compared with mildly acidic conditions (i.e. gastric conditions)(18) and, as shown in Fig. 1, the release of Si from colloidal silica by 4 h of simulated digestion was still low compared with that of ChOSA, for example.

    The above findings are therefore important for two reasons. First, they inform on the mechanisms of Si absorption and the requirements for luminal processing and chemical speciation, while second, in further epidemiological studies (for example, Jugdaohsingh et al. (4) and Macdonald et al. (5)) and intervention studies(20) adjustments could be made for the different forms of supplemental Si that have been ingested. It is also interesting to note that a number of misnomers occur with these commercial supplements. For example, what is referred to by the manufacturers as ‘colloidal silica’ is really particulate silica, while choline-stabilised ‘orthosilicic acid’ is choline-stabilised colloidal or nanoparticulate silica.

    [Reference 4: Dietary silicon intake is positively associated with bone mineral density in men and premenopausal women of the Framingham Offspring cohort.

    Reference 5: Dietary silicon intake is associated with bone mineral density in premenopasual women and postmenopausal women taking HRT

    Reference 20: Choline-stabilized orthosilicic acid supplementation as an adjunct to calcium/vitamin D3 stimulates markers of bone formation in osteopenic females: a randomized, placebo-controlled trial.]

    The results with magnesium trisilicate BP are more difficult to interpret. First, this is an antacid and so buffers the gastric environment. Second, there was a very long absorption profile for Si from magnesium trisilicate BP and, hence, urinary Si excretion, which is used as a proxy for absorption, was not near completion by 6 h. It is likely that the gastric buffering and the slow absorption are related. Although as noted above, silicate requires less acid conditions for its dissolution, the initial disaggregation of solid-phase materials (i.e. magnesium trisilicate) may well require acid digestion and presumably with buffering this is slow. Hence, the opportunity for subsequent silicate dissolution is similarly slow and relatively short-lived. However, based upon our findings in the present study with another form of polymerised and aggregated Si, namely colloidal silica, it is likely that the percentage absorption from antacids is also of small magnitude. Nonetheless, antacids are sometimes taken in extremely high doses for long periods of time and, indeed, the appearance of Si-containing kidney stones is well reported in high-dose, long-term antacid users(11,21). This may be rare, but illustrates that even if percentage absorption is low, Si uptake can be excessive if the dosing is high enough and prolonged.

    [That's related to the studies I posted about risks of silicates to the kidneys.]

    ...The kinetics of Si absorption were also studied. In the main, kinetics were in keeping with total absorption such that those foods requiring hydrolysis in the gut before absorption were slow to reach peak serum Si levels (i.e. magnesium trisilicate BP, colloidal silica and ChOSA) compared with monomeric forms of Si. Interestingly, Si from MMST was very rapidly absorbed and presumably is related to the organic moiety, which may allow rapid penetration of the intestinal mucosa by the molecule..."
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  2. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Thanks, Sue. I'm waiting for the book to ship. I had the last couple posts of mine ready and then saw your post. I'll read the book before posting more.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
    Sue-UK likes this.
  3. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Something interesting from Becker's book Cross Currents is a discussion on the earth's rotation through the magnetosphere, and that any given spot on the earth's surface is in a constantly changing magnetic field. There's a diagram of the daily rise and fall in the strength of the magnetic field at one spot on the earth during a quiet period of solar activity. There's also a discussion on what is the magnetic organ, (separate from the pineal), but on the pineal, after acknowledging the retinal pathway, he says:

    "It appears that, over 2 billion years of evolution, living things have taken advantage of the two portions of the electromagnetic spectrum that could be depended upon to always be present: the geomagnetic field and visible light. In this view, it is no more surprising that life developed specific organs to sense the geomagnetic field and to derive timing information from it than that it developed specific organs to sense and derive information from light."

    "More recently, it has been shown that the pineal is also sensitive to the daily cyclic pattern in the Earth's magnetic field. Melatonin secretion in human subjects may be changed at will by exposure to steady magnetic fields of the same strength as the geomagnetic field. Apparently, nature determined that biological cycle activity was too important to be left to one environmental signal alone. "

    "Nature intended the pineal to simultaneously receive the same signals from the daily pattern of day-night and the same rise and fall in strength of the geomagnetic field. Obviously, when one or both signals are abnormal, the pineal does not respond in the normal fashion, and the body's biological cycles become disturbed - with important clinical consequences."

    The book Energy Medicine, the scientific basis, by James L Oschman, introduced me to the thalamic rhythm generator, as being another potential way to sense the geomagnetic field during the "free run period", so this study is interesting, particularly when looking at the Blue Zone book chapter 2, table 1 figures for OSA reducing aluminium accumulation in the thalamus.

    The role of the thalamus in sleep, pineal melatonin production, and circadian rhythm sleep disorders
  4. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    There is a whole separate movement of drinking green juices.
    Likely not much smaller then Ketogenic diet, and maybe (after @Jack Kruse ) Circadian Rythm observation.
    I have not seen (the green juices) advertising anything about silica, but it looks like that is what it really is.
    Is there a way to figure out/monitor silica status by looking at choline level on my Spectracell Micronutrient Analysis?



    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  5. DrEttinger

    DrEttinger Choice, the only thing we control

    I'm always amazed at how this forum can take such a small thing and turn it into a Ph.D. thesis. Here are the basics: as you age do not supplement calcium, but supplement silica. The older you get the more silica you need. 10m's/day is good up to 65-70 and 15mg's thereafter. If you are worried about calcification add-in 100mcg's of MK-7 2x/day. If you worry a lot than engage in 45-90 minutes of cardio on a regular basis. If you worry even more than nothing will help because you are producing more ROS than you can negate from supplementation, diet, or environmental modification.
  6. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    My using silica water to try to avoid my mother and maternal grandmother's dementia fate is not a small thing, and learning from others and sharing is a pleasure, so that and understanding the mechanisms is more likely to be reducing my ROS. :D A "PhD thesis" thread, however in depth or off track it goes, is far more interesting than threads that end up being don't overcomplicate things .... :zzz: They also run the risk of being over simplifications.

    Although we tend to talk about silicon taking aluminium out of the body, its possibly just as much that aluminium takes silicon out ..... Any thoughts on what level of daily current aluminium exposure would take out more than the 10 mg silica supplement? :)
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    @Sue-UK thank you for keeping this topic long enough that it woken me up.
    I had a really good chance sleeping it over.
    I think drinking water (ok, silica water) is not the best way to go. Or, there may be a better ways to deal with low silica problem.
    Thank you for helping us. Please continue.
    Your response here

    clearly describes that the real topic is hydration, low silica is just a reason.

    Add to that desirability of minimal deuterium intake (dr Boros)
    and the fact that green stuff (all kinds) are low in deuterium (again dr Boros) and high in silica

    I think that we could/should start/move discussion toward drinking green juices.
    Green juices in this context are low deuterium water high in silica.

  8. DrEttinger

    DrEttinger Choice, the only thing we control

    Low Si levels in drinking water increase the risk of cognitive impairment due to high aluminum (Al) intake (Jacqmin-Gadda et al., 1996).

    Silicic acid forms complexes with aluminum hydroxide. The resulting aluminosilicates decrease the availability of free Al, hence prevents the occurrence of neurodegeneration in the brain (Domingo et al., 2011).

    In order to prevent risks of developing Al-induced Alzheimer’s disease, the use of silica-rich water with concentrations ≥11 mg/L is recommended (Gillette-Guyonnet et al., 2005).
    Sue-UK likes this.
  9. DrEttinger

    DrEttinger Choice, the only thing we control


    Oats and barley are one of the highest sources of silica per 100g's
  10. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    The blue zones seem to have reasonable levels in drinking water, together with a good dietary source from a staple. They are not supplementing, or drinking green juices from what I've read. I don't think "greens" in general are high in silicon, for example spring greens are listed at around 1.81 per 100g. For greens I'd assume some would stay in the pulp if they are juiced, and its how much is OSA . The figure I have for barley is 109 mg/100g with 49 per cent as OSA. Even eating the leaves of greens whole would take a large amount to match crops like barley. Their already not high levels could be influenced by lack of silicon fertilizer. Then if avoiding pesticides, using large amounts of organic greens for juicing could be an expensive option. Then there's oxalates .... etc.:)
  11. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    One - speculative - dot could be that green juices provide chlorophyll which is the plant equivalent of haemoglobin (Herrera), and it also links to

    https://jcs.biologists.org/content/127/2/388 Light-harvesting chlorophyll pigments enable mammalian mitochondria to capture photonic energy and produce ATP.

    So the effect of green juices may be less about their deuterium or silicon content, and more about their chlorophyll content. Fruits are high deuterium but generally little silicon. I think the fructose-deuterium link is a different ballgame to the silicon-deuterium link .....

    But for roots and tubers - for example unpeeled potatoes at 93 mg per 100g versus peeled at 0.27-0.55. Both might be deuterium bombs, but the peeling takes out the silicon. It could be that its the removal of silicon that makes the deuterium in processed foods etc so damaging for example. The blue zones are not eating deuterium depleted foods, or drinking DDW, so its possible that it is silicon that keeps deuterium in structures such as bone. There's potentially a biological significance, both in terms of strengthening bonds that need to be strong, and semiconduction. In terms of this short clip - I don't believe nature didn't get it into mammalian biochemistry first. :D

    From what I've heard of what Dr Boros eats and drinks, his diet sounds as boring as hell, and if its as low in silicon as I think it might be, it could be a risk to my bones, just for starters ..... I had a recent bad fall and didn't break any bones - I think my silicon-deuterium binge - yum yum yum- over the summer played a protective role. :)
  12. Dennis Clark

    Dennis Clark Dr. Dennis Clark

    The irony for me, Grandpa John, is I was "brought up" as a natural product (organic) chemist learning how to push electrons around on paper, symbolized with either one-headed or two-headed arrows. I only got the tiniest hint of how far fetched that was when I took a physical chemistry course that covered quantum mechanics. I was seeing the Schroedinger wave equation in my sleep by the time the semester ended.

    Now I've finally started to catch on to the value of various energies as information carriers, not just particles or waves. It boggles my mind. Someone here, or in a comment on one of Jack's post, hit me over the head with this hammer (not personally - I just took it to heart): E=mC^2 is incomplete without the information component. Phenomenal comment! Pushing electrons is nothing. Sending, receiving, and transducing energies into biological information is everything.

    Pretty damn cool, if you ask me. I wonder what my old p-chem professor would have to say about all this.
    John Schumacher likes this.
  13. Dr. @Dennis Clark, it's not too late.

    I have been actively pursuing the above.
    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?posts/291633 <- is an example on my thoughts on a
    Hypothesis I have:
    "Photoelectric stimuli on human cells yields quantum efficiency."

    I'm currently writing its explanation for this one example; so far I'm 58 pages into it and I'm just "stretching the surface". The idea is wrapped around an understanding why Nature designed molecular collaboration to "create" function.

    Enjoy, Grandpa John
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  14. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  15. Dennis Clark

    Dennis Clark Dr. Dennis Clark

    One more thing...I've followed the link to your journal and now have more goodies to learn. Will be reading more of what you've said there soo.
    John Schumacher likes this.
  16. Dennis Clark

    Dennis Clark Dr. Dennis Clark

    Silica Biohack?

    Wow...What a lot of material to digest on this thread. It has given me answers to questions I didn't even know I had.

    The key in my thinking is, ultimately, figuring out what action steps I can take toward better health. JK's posts and comments are full of nuggets and dots to connect. Same here on this thread. Which leads me to ask about biohacking silica. Comments about bioavailability here seem to point in that direction.

    Is there any way you folks know of for evaluating how well anyone actually uses silica? In other words, a silica biohack?
  17. Dr. @Dennis Clark, a while back I asked you to do a write up for me -> How does cold therapy increase the metabolic efficiency of our mitochondria?
    Practically, other than leptin release, why the hell would someone do it? -> I do it and recommend to those I consult to do the same.
  18. Dennis Clark

    Dennis Clark Dr. Dennis Clark

    Thanks for the reminder, John. I hadn't a clue until I started rereading the CT series. This quote from CT-6 points you in the right direction, I think:

    In cold, mammals live longer because their mitochondria release heat to alter water chemistry.

    The Ancient Pathway reveals metabolic adaptations due to thermoplastic biochemistry. Things work way differently in cold.

    If I'm not mistaken, what Jack might be talking about is what I learned as "cyanide-resistant respiration" in plants. It refers to respiration that occurs when cyanide blocks cytochrome c oxidase at the end of electron transport (https://www.biologydiscussion.com/e...istant-respiration-and-its-significance/23330) Now renamed to "thermogenic respiration." It occurs in skunk cabbage and other aroids. It's behind why skunk cabbage can sprout up inflorescences through a snow pack (https://www.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/awim2y/skunk_cabbage_flowers_generate_heat_to_melt/). This is a very popular topic among plant physiologists.

    Plant folks attribute this ability to an alternative oxidase (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3645666/).

    All that is based on "warm" biochemistry. Even so, Animalia (including some chordates), are now known to have alternative oxidases. AOX is suspected to be much wider-spread among animals. The Wikipedia page on AOX has an interesting comment, "The expression of the alternative oxidase gene AOX is influenced by stresses such as cold, reactive oxygen species and infection by pathogens..." [my emphasis]

    What's missing, of course, is what Jack said in the CT series. I.e., our views of biochemistry are faulty because they are based on warm, not cold.

    I don't know whether we actually have AOX that's activated in cold or we have some equivalent way to influence other electron transporters by cold.

    This is just a bit of free-association thinking on my part on beautiful (hot) September Saturday morning in central Arizona. I may be full of hooey, which wouldn't be anything new for me. (I often miss dot connections in Jack's writing, sometimes requiring multiple reads before I get something.) @Jack Kruse may chime in, in case don't know shit from shinola here.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    John Schumacher likes this.
  19. Dennis Clark

    Dennis Clark Dr. Dennis Clark

    John Schumacher likes this.
  20. Dennis Clark

    Dennis Clark Dr. Dennis Clark

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