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Pineal Calcification, Melatonin Production, Aging, Associated Health Consequences and Rejuvenation o

Discussion in 'The Cave' started by Penny, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Thank you again for keeping this highly important topic alive.
    Please note the very first sentence in the link you posted"
    Comfrey has been consumed by humans as a vegetable and a tea and used as an herbal medicine for more than 2000 years.
    Some interesting discussions are here:
    https://merrilynhope.com/comfrey-the-miracle-healing-herb/

    Also, people who are selling comfrey roots for planting, talk about it as a (current) food for animals.
     
    John Schumacher likes this.
  2. My herbalist loves comfrey, creates topical ointments but cautions about internal use... says its medicine not supplementation...
     
  3. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Herbalgram pages

    Intro
    http://cms.herbalgram.org/healthyingredients/Comfrey.html

    About risks
    http://cms.herbalgram.org/herbalgra...57&signature=2c60bbcf8b203ef69a31aa2b2b86fe41

    Some more about risks
    http://cms.herbalgram.org/herbclip/156/review41902.html

    ____

    Is Comfrey Safe? by David Hoffmann B.Sc., FNIMH
    https://herbcraft.org/hoffmanncomfrey.html

    ____

    Comfrey toxicity revisited by Dorena Rode
    https://eclecticschoolofherbalmedic...s/2016/07/Comfrey-Toxicity-Revisted-Rhode.pdf

    ____

    Comfrey hepatotoxicity by Henriette Kress
    https://www.henriettes-herb.com/faqs/medi-2-15-comfrey.html

    ____

    The Comfrey Controversy: Can And Should One Use Comfrey Internally? by Megan Visser
    https://theherbalacademy.com/use-comfrey-internally/

    ____

    I studied herbalism casually for several years and I've seen other similar situations where research about toxicity of isolated chemicals, often in doses a person wouldn't be ingesting if they use a reasonable recommended amount and/or with animals that might be affected differently than humans, is extrapolated to danger of whole parts of the plant; there were a handful of cases of injury with uncertain details of what the people were doing that could be important influences on the development of the problem but the herb was blamed entirely for the injury and then people were recommended to be concerned about using it at all to protect them from considering that there's nuance to the use of plants as medicines and that the responsibility of understanding those nuances will help them use the herb safely, and that public health authorities can be biased from their ideology or financial sponsors and give recommendations for public safety with double standards; so then there are warnings required when the herb is being sold or it's banned; and then more research is done or the research that led to the warnings is looked at with more nuanced consideration and some people who are aware of that still think it's safe to use the herb in the ways that have been traditionally recommended as safe.

    I think comfrey could be safe for short term medicinal purposes, and maybe eating it or drinking a tea of it in small amounts long term if the person understands the stuff linked to above, but I think there are better ways to get a therapeutic amount of silica regularly without the possible alkaloid effects - other foods or in waters. The medicinal usefulness, like for example with broken bones, could be because of silica in combination with chemicals that enhance the effect of the silica, but if those chemicals can also be risky or unnecessary long term then maybe comfrey's useful for silica-involving repairs that need strong short term stimulation for an intense healing phase like the broken bone but it shouldn't be used as a long term source of silica and/or silica-guiding chemicals for normal silica-involving maintenance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  4. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member


    The reasons for not using it to attempt to clear aluminium in the brain is the same as for horsetail - not enough OSA. The Blue Zone book gives the figures for a Swanson bamboo product, a 300 mg cap is 99 mg silicon, but the OSA value is 0.99 mg. My concern is that the facade of better nails, hair etc, might obscure that I'm not helping my brain eliminate aluminium.

    One interesting thing is that peeled white or sweet potatoes is 0.27 -0.55 mg silicon per 100g, with 21 per cent as OSA, so not a good source. Potatoes including skin is 93 mg per 100 g with 21 per cent as OSA. So even if avoiding whole potato to keep carbs low because of the season, using some organic potato peel in a soup or broth with the usual ingredients, would give me a grain free better OSA value than the Swanson supplement. :)
     
    John Schumacher likes this.
  5. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    No I haven't got round to buying that one. Do you recommend it?

    The 7 supplements bit of the title put me off to start with, and the dissolved mineral sounds like it will be silica, and his other book goes in depth with that. :)
     
    John Schumacher likes this.
  6. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Speculation/musings ...:D

    In the Blue Zone book, in the section on Parkinsons, it says that neuromelanin sequesters aluminium and iron protecting the brain from oxidative stress due to these metals, and that people with PD have 50 per cent less NM than normal. So OSA could help prevent further loss of NM.

    But there is one potential role for silica (other than OSA) in the brain, which might make supplements useful (if there is not too much loss of NM). I just think that - as prevention - tapping into the foodstuffs in the local environment is a better way to do it long term. (Its not a year round staple, but brown bears go for roots when they come out of hibernation, which would be a good source of silica in the peel).

    Thought you might be interested in this https://patents.justia.com/patent/20190382907. Patent for Arturo Solis Herrera,
    (He's the author of the book The Human Photosynthesis).

    "A process for producing glucose, the process comprising reacting water and carbon dioxide gas dissolved therein in the presence of at least one melanin device and a source of electromagnetic energy, wherein the at least one melanin device consists of melanin and a substrate, wherein the substrate is an inert material selected from the group consisting of silica, plastic, and glass, the melanin being held within the substrate to prevent the melanin from being dispersed throughout the water, and the electromagnetic energy is visible or invisible light energy having a wavelength of 200 nm to 900 nm, such that glucose is produced."

    "....substrate of at least one melanin device is silica."

    "a source of electromagnetic energy, wherein the electromagnetic energy is visible or invisible light energy having a wavelength of 200 nm to 900 nm, such that the electromagnetic energy is transmitted into the reaction cell and is absorbed by melanin."


    It could also help explain why brown bears coming out of hibernation haven't lost all their muscle, and aren't osteoporotic. They are experiencing a high CO2 environment, and higher CO2 due to slower breathing/sleep, which if they can transform to glucose, could have a profound effect on maintaining mass??:confused:
     
    John Schumacher likes this.
  7. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Do you know if there's something I could read online from Crouse about how to calculate OSA from different forms of silicon? Or does he include that in his book? And do you know how to calculate what percentage of the OSA is in monomeric form? And if Crouse says how using sodium metasilicate (in Silicade) compared to other forms of silica would affect that? Does he give detail in the book, or online, about adding things to the water to affect the sodium metasilicate chemistry?

    I have a few pages of notes from trying to figure out the chemistry of making homemade silicic acid-rich water from anhydrous silicic acid (what I posted a link to as "silicic acid hydrate") that I haven't posted yet because the last thing I found was about the percentage of orthosilicic acid monomers in the solution and I don't understand much of it. The percentage of monomers in the study I saw is much less than the amount of silica added to the water, but I don't know if it'd be different with sodium metasilicate, sodium metasilicate with other things added, anhydrous silicic acid, anhydrous silicic acid with other things added...

    This is the notes just about the monomers. The first part is from the PDF attachment.


    Solubility of amorphous silica in water (1953)
    page 2
    Section (A)
    "As a typical silica powder, an amorphous silica.... [containing] 99.9% silicon dioxide... was suspended in boiled, freshly distilled water which had been previously adjusted to pH 5.6 with a trace of HCl... Concentrations of the powder in suspsension ranged from 0.03 to 1.0% by weight... The equilibrium solubility proved to be 0.014% SiO2 in solution as monomeric silica.

    The solubility of this silica was relatively independent of the amount of solid silica in the suspension, except when less than 0.1% silica powder is present in the dispersion.

    In another set of experiments, the solubility of [the silica powder] was measured at various pH values from 1 to 10.2. The pH was adjusted with HcL or NaOH, and 1% by weight of the silica powder was suspended in the water. The amount of silica in solution was determined after three weeks and six months at 25 C...

    pH 10.28: 0.053% as monomer
    pH 10.60: 0.11% as monomer
    pH 10.85: 0.21% as monomer
    pH 11.04: 0.36% as monomer"



    Dennis Crouse's wife quoted from his book in the comments here

    https://aluminum-alzheimers-autism.blogspot.com/2015/09/recipe-to-make-your-own-silica-water.html

    "Here are excerpts from Prevent Alzheimer's Autism and Stroke. There are two ways that dissolved silica as OSA and oligomers and nanoparticles of OSA in the diet or as a supplement can regulate the amount of ingested aluminum reaching the brain:
    Monomeric OSA increases aluminum excretion in the urine
    • Oligomers and nanoparticles of OSA increases fecal excretion of aluminum
    OSA when taken orally is readably absorbed and therefore bioavailable. OSA is a nearly neutral acid (pKa 9.84) that complexes with labile aluminum in the blood and kidneys (pH 6.5-8) increasing the urinary excretion of aluminum..."
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    @DrEttinger
    7/23/2020, (50 days ago) I had surgery (in the middle of) on my left thigh (far from joints).
    9" long incision, 6" long 2" dia piece of fat was cut off, some of it scrapped of the bone.
    I am (almost) good now, some swelling is still there.
    Question;
    Would it be wise to double the 10 drops a day dose of Bio-Sil
    and if yes, for how long?
    Anything else?


    [​IMG]
     
  9. DrEttinger

    DrEttinger Choice, the only thing we control

    You can, it's safe. For how long is arbitrary - 1-2 bottles. I'm sure you have the MSM, collagen, and a natural or supplemental source of vitamin C. These are synergistic.
     
    JanSz and John Schumacher like this.
  10. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    In terms of silicon in silica water, it seems to be about molecular weight.

    Si (MW 28) is called "elemental silicon", that is multiplied by 3.4 to get ppm of OSA.
    RSi (MW28) is called "reactive silicon" that is multiplied by 3.4 to get ppm of OSA.
    Si02 (MW60) is called silica that is multiplied by 1.6 to get ppm of OSA.
    Si(OH)4 (MW96) is a water soluble silicate called orthosilicic acid or OSA.

    In the book dissolved silica in water is expressed as ppm OSA, with one ppm equivalent to 1 mg per litre.

    He also says that drinking water is usually analyzed for silica in one of two ways. The AWWA silica assay, or Coradin's Silicomolybdic spectrophotometric blue assay.

    He gives the recipe, and makes clear that its sodium silicate - low alkalinity, do not order sodium silicate - alkaline, and in the section on why this recipe works, there's detailed explanations of the pH at each stage of the process. My chemistry isn't up to me being satisfied what I was doing was safe, or giving me the expected OSA, even with the detailed recipe in the book. :oops:
     
    Dan2 likes this.
  11. I haven't read it.
     
  12. If he's right, then the more melanin a person has, the greater potential water (probably DDW) that person could make in full solar sun.
    "Upon the absorption of electromagnetic energy such as light energy (visible or invisible), melanin catalyzes the dissociation of water into diatomic hydrogen (H2), diatomic oxygen (O2), and electrons (e−). Although the splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen consumes energy, the reaction is reversible, and in the reverse process the reduction of oxygen atoms with diatomic hydrogen to reform the water molecules liberates energy."

    So if he solved the mystery of living on only light, water & magnetism, then "glucose can be produced from carbon dioxide and water, requiring only melanin and electromagnetic energy, such as invisible light."
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  13. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Thanks, Sue.

    Si (MW 28) is called "elemental silicon", that is multiplied by 3.4 to get ppm of OSA.
    RSi (MW28) is called "reactive silicon" that is multiplied by 3.4 to get ppm of OSA.
    Si02 (MW60) is called silica that is multiplied by 1.6 to get ppm of OSA.
    Si(OH)4 (MW96) is a water soluble silicate called orthosilicic acid or OSA.

    Hm, ok, that's good. I bought the book so I'll compare what he says to what I've been thinking about using anhydrous silicic acid (the one that's about $50-75 for 100 g). I think it can just be added to room temperature water to make ~120 mg/L of silicic acid. And at $75 for 100 g, that's still only $0.09 per liter.

    I'm posting the notes next in case anyone's interested in checking if I'm making sense. I still don't know about the percentages of monomers after dissolving diferent kinds of silica into the water.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  14. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Ok so I'll post these notes mostly as I thought through it in case someone else is confused about what I was confused about – the terminology and forms of silica and silicic acid and when they're gels or powders, and which would be convenient for storage and quickly adding to water to make homemade silica-rich water.

    ____


    On this page about silicic acid hydrate:
    http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.10642832.html

    Looking at the Articles tab below More details:

    On the Properties of Silicic Acid and other Analogous Colloidal Substances by Thomas Graham 1864
    https://sci-hub.tw/10.2307/112059



    Considering that, the silicic acid hydrate I included in this post --

    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.p...s-and-rejuvenation-o.25082/page-2#post-292029

    "100 g silicic acid hydrate, $75
    https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/033270/
    'Applications
    Silicic acid hydrate is used for studying neurodegenerative diseases due to its ability to inhibit aluminum uptake.'"

    – I think that's just silicic acid gel, which wouldn't be good for storage.


    ____


    But these:

    Silicic acid powder
    https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigald/306363?lang=en&region=US

    https://www.spectrumchemical.com/OA...c-Acid-Powder-Reagent_S1030.jsp?section=15828

    have the same chemical formula, SiO2•xH2O, as the silicic acid hydrate

    ("100 g silicic acid hydrate, $75
    https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/033270/
    'Applications
    Silicic acid hydrate is used for studying neurodegenerative diseases due to its ability to inhibit aluminum uptake.'").

    But then scrolling down on that page, looking under Chemical Properties, it says "Form -100 Mesh Powder".

    Ok so I don't understand the difference between silicic acid hydrate form or diluted gel.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  15. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrated_silica

    "Hydrated silica is a form of silicon dioxide, which has a variable amount of water in the formula. When dissolved in water it is usually known as silicic acid..."

    "Chemical Formula: SiO2 · nH2O
    1 SiO2 + 1 H2O → H2SiO3
    1 SiO2 + 2 H2O → H4SiO4 [also known as Si(OH)4]
    2 SiO2 + 1 H2O → H2Si2O5
    2 SiO2 + 3 H2O → H6Si2O7
    3 SiO2 + 2 H2O → H4Si3O8
    3 SiO2 + 4 H2O → H8Si3O10
    4 SiO2 + 1 H2O → H2Si4O9"

    "It is found in nature, as opal (which has been mined as a gemstone for centuries), and in the cell walls of diatoms. It is also manufactured for use in toothpaste. Hydrated silica can be dehydrated to produce silica gel [citation needed], which is used as a desiccant. It is also used in various paints and varnishes and in the production of beer."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel#Desiccant

    So the silica gel is the dry enough to put in a packet with holes-consistency desiccant, and more water added to it would make it more of the oozy colloquial kind of "gel".

    And silicon dioxide dissolved in water is silicic acid, which can be dehydrated to make silica gel (desiccant texture), but silicic acid can also be a powder and described as silicic acid powder.

    So, (from the Wikipedia quotes) “when dissolved in water [silicon dioxide] is usually known as silicic acid" means "dissolved" like that can be a minimal one equal part H2O to the silicon dioxide: "1 SiO2 + 1 H2O → H2SiO3"?

    ____


    Looking at other silicic acid hydrates for sale.

    https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/033270/
    Formula SiO2•xH2O
    Formula Weight 60.09(anhy) [anhydrous]
    Form -100 Mesh Powder

    Silicon atomic mass 28.0855
    Oxygen atomic mass 15.999
    Hydrogen atomic mass 1.00784
    SiO2 = (1 Si = 28.0855) + (2 O = 31.998) = 60.0835, like "Formula Weight 60.09(anhy)"

    I'm so dumb. Ok so anhydrous means no water molecules in the formula, and so in the consistency, which is why it's a powder.

    Which means that anhydrous silicic acid can be stored long term and added to water to make silicic acid-rich water?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
    Tim Enright likes this.
  16. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    https://www.silicawaters.com/what-is-silica-water/

    "Silica water differs significantly from most mineral waters, as it contains higher levels of silicon than most bottled water. Silicon in soluble form is known as Orthosilicic Acid(OSA) and is usually listed on bottled water labels as Silica measured in milligrams per litre.

    Silica is naturally occurring and abundant in silica water and not synthetically produced. OSA is the only form of silicon that humans can effectively digest and absorb into the body’s system. Few bottled waters in Britain contain even a tiny level of silica, but most do not contain any at all."

    Ffbghbfbfghfbfghh


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthosilicic_acid

    "Orthosilicic acid is a chemical compound with formula Si(OH)4. It has been synthesized using non-aqueous solutions. It is assumed to be present when silicon dioxide (silica) SiO2 dissolves in water at a millimolar concentration level.

    The term silicic acid has traditionally been used as a synonym for silica, SiO2. Strictly speaking, silica is the anhydride of orthosilicic acid, Si(OH)4.

    Si(OH)4 ⇌ SiO2↓ + 2H2O



    [So adding anhydrous silicic acid to water would make orthosilicic acid in the water, homemade silica-rich water that isn't different from this: "OSA is the only form of silicon that humans can effectively digest and absorb into the body’s system".]


    The solubility of silicon dioxide in water strongly depends on its crystal structure. The solubility of amorphous silica at the vapor pressure of solutions from 0 to 250 C is given by the equation
    log C = -731/T + 4.52

    where C is the silica concentration in mg kg−1 and T is absolute temperature in K.[1] This equates to a maximum solubility of about 2 mmol L−1 at ambient temperatures. Attempts to produce more concentrated solutions result in the formation of silica gel.[2] Because the concentration of orthosilicic acid in water is so low, the compounds that are present in solution have not been fully characterized. Linus Pauling predicted that silicic acid would be a very weak acid.[3]
    Si(OH)4 ⇌ Si(OH)3O− + H+
    The situation changed in 2017, when the orthosilicic acid monomer was obtained by hydrogenolysis... With these new discoveries, the term silicic acid has become ambiguous: in addition to the traditionally use as a synonym for silica, SiO2, it can now be used for the compound Si(OH)4. The traditional usage is retained in this article for quotes from cited publication which use it."


    Ok so how much anhydrous silicic acid can be dissolved in room temperature water?


    “SiO2 has a maximum solubility of about 2 mmol/L at ambient temperatures”

    What's mmol/L?


    "The mass of one mole of a substance is equal to that substance's molecular weight. For example, the mean molecular weight of water is 18.015 atomic mass units (amu), so one mole of water weight 18.015 grams." (https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-chemistry/chapter/molar-mass/)

    "The mole is widely used in chemistry as a convenient way to express amounts of reactants and products of chemical reactions. For example, the chemical equation 2H2 + O2 → 2H2O can be interpreted to mean that 2 mol dihydrogen (H2) and 1 mol dioxygen (O2) react to form 2 mol water (H2O)." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(unit))


    SiO2 Molecular Weight: 60.084 g/mol
    1 mol = 1000 mmol
    1 g/mol = 1 mg/mmol
    SiO2 has a maximum solubility of about 2 mmol/L at ambient temperatures
    60.084 g/mol = 60.084 mg/mmol
    60.084 x 2 = 120.168 mg/2mmol
    So 120 mg of SiO2 (anhydrous silicic acid powder) per liter of water is soluble at ambient temperatures.

    Or using the equation:

    log C = -731/T + 4.52
    where C is the silica [aka silicic acid powder] concentration in mg kg−1 [mg/kg] and T is absolute temperature in K.

    So to find the temperature where a concentration of 100 mg/L silicic acid is soluble...

    Pure H2O = 1 kg/L at 4C/39.2 F
    So for 100 mg silicic acid in 1 liter of water aka 1 kg of water
    where C is silicic acid mg/kg
    C = 100 mg/kg.

    log 100 = -731/T + 4.52
    2 = -731/T + 4.52
    -2.52 = -731/T
    -2.52(T) = -731
    T = -731 / -2.52
    T = 290.079
    290.079 K converted to F = 62.4722

    So 100 mg silicic acid is soluble in pure water at 17 C/62 F.

    What temperature would be needed for 200 mg/L to be soluble? (C = 200 mg/kg)

    log 200 = -731/T + 4.52
    2.301029 = -731/T + 4.52
    -2.218971 = -731/T
    -2.218971T = -731
    T = 329.43 K
    329.43 K = 56.28 C = 133.3 F

    But, “[silica's solubility in water] equates to a maximum solubility of about 2 mmol L−1 at ambient temperatures. Attempts to produce more concentrated solutions result in the formation of silica gel.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthosilicic_acid)

    And 2 mmol/L is about 120 mg/L, so with anhydrous silicic acid, using higher heat would only be necessary to make a gel? But that's the technical use of "gel" so I don't know what the consistency of the water would be if it had, say, 150 or 200 mg/L silicic acid in it. It might not be the colloquial kind of "gel" until a lot more concentration. Heating the water to make a higher concentration could also be useful if the water has lots of aluminum in it. If it's 100 mg/L aluminum but you can add 200 mg/L silicic acid, would 100 mg of the silicic acid bind to the 100 mg of aluminum and make the aluminum harmless and then you'd have 100 mg of silicic acid that would be usable still too?

    Ok so maybe drinking gel would bind to aluminum in the water or remove more aluminum from the body than water with a room temperature-soluble amount of silicic acid. Or maybe 120 mg/L, about the upper range of naturally occurring silicic acid in water (I think..?), is better physiologically, and conveniently can be made with room temperature water and anhydrous silicic acid.


    ____


    So Dennis Crouse heats the sodium metasilicate and water in the microwave in the video of how to make Silicade because sodium metasilicate has a different solubility in room temperature water than anhydrous silicic acid..?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metasilicate
    (right column)

    “Solubility in water:
    22.2 g/100 ml (25 C) [77 F]
    160.6 g/100 ml (80 C) [176 F]”

    Na2SiO3
    Sodium atomic mass 22.989769 x 2 = 45.9795
    Silicon atomic mass 28.0855
    Oxygen atomic mass 15.999 x 3 = 47.997
    Total = 122.06
    Silicon is 23% of the weight

    “Solubility in water:
    22.2 g/100 ml (25 C) [77 F]”

    23% of that is 5.1 g of silicon from sodium metasilicate soluble in 100 mL of 77 F water?
    What
    Why does Crouse heat the water?
    Because something to do with reactions when the sodium metasilicate is put in the water? Something with the pH?
    Because he's a chemist and if I want to understand why it needs to be heated I should buy his book instead of trying to beat him at chemistry, that's why.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  17. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Ok so if someone's ok with heating the water to make their own silica water, they can use sodium metasilicate. And if they want to be able to dissolve 120 mg/L of silicic acid into room temperature water, they can use anhydrous silicic acid.

    And at $75 for 100 g of anhydrous silicic acid, that still only costs...
    100000 mg makes 833 liters with 120 mg/L silicic acid...
    $75 / 833 = $0.09 per liter with 120 mg/L.
    Or 100000 mg makes 2000 L with 50 mg/L silicic acid...
    $75 / 2000 = $0.0375 per L with 50 mg/L.

    ______

    Silicon is 47% weight of SiO2
    100 grams anhydrous silicic acid = 47 grams elemental silicon for $75

    ______

    Bringing it back to the osteoporosis discussion too:

    The role of orthosilicic acid-induced autophagy on promoting differentiation and mineralization of osteoblastic cells
    https://sci-hub.tw/10.1177/0885328219837700
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  18. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Although elemental silicon and silicon dioxide can dissolve in room temp water to make OSA, the chemical reaction is not done quickly enough to make it viable to produce OSA rich water.

    Hydrous powdered sodium silicate contains 99.5 % water soluble sodium silicate and a max of 0.5 % of water insoluble materials, as required by the American Waterworks Standard B104-98 for adding sodium silicate to drinking water. The recipe in the book, using the same stuff, in that step warns not to heat to boiling more than 1/8 of a cup of tap water as more water will lower the pH making the hydrous sodium silicate less soluble. Undissolved silicates in the kidneys may be dependent on several things (like overall water intake), but its not something I'd play around with.

    Another issue is that it says in the book that the recipe ingredients (bought from the sources mentioned), don't need special respiratory protection. Then, in respect of gels you mentioned, if you ingest silicon gel and it gets through the gut lining....... makes me think of leaking silicon breast implants. :eek:
     
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  19. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    The comparative absorption of silicon from different foods and food supplements

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2744664/


    "...Si absorption was measured from eight high-Si-containing sources: alcohol-free beer; OSA solution (positive control); bananas; green beans; supplemental choline-stabilised OSA (ChOSA); supplemental monomethyl silanetriol (MMST); supplemental colloidal silica (CS); magnesium trisilicate British Pharmacopoeia antacid (MTBP)...

    In our experience different countries tend to favour very different forms of Si supplements and these may be expected to have different absorption profiles; for example, organic Si, typically monomethyl silanetriol (MMST), is commonly used in France, whereas colloidal mineral Si appears to be more common in Germany, and choline-stabilised orthosilicic acid (ChOSA) in Belgium(8). The chemistries of these differ in that MMST is not only organic but also monomeric, while the other silicates show varying degrees of polymerisation, which may explain the differential absorption that experiments in rats and preliminary experiments in human subjects have suggested(7,12,13). Indeed, collation of findings from several papers suggests all of the above, but none of this work has been undertaken in one study - i.e. a side-by-side comparison study. Thus the purpose of the present study was to include the ingestible sources of high Si content in one study and determine their relative/comparative absorption...


    Materials and methods

    Water was ultra-high purity (UHP; 18 MΩ/cm) from an Elga water purifier (Elga Ltd, High Wycombe, Bucks, UK)... Sodium silicate (14 % NaOH and 27 % SiO2 (7 mol Si/l)) and hydrochloric acid (HCl, 5 mol/l) were purchased from Aldrich Chemical Co. (Gillingham, Dorset, UK)... ChOSA was obtained from BioMinerals NV (Destelgergen, Belgium)... Magnesium trisilicate mixture British Pharmacopoeia (BP) (referred to as magnesium trisilicate BP in the text) was from Lloyds Pharmacy Ltd (Coventry, Warwicks, UK). Colloidal silica was from Saguna GmbH (Bielefeld, Germany). MMST [Monomethylsilanetriol] was obtained from LLR-G5 Ltd (Castlebar, Co. Mayo, Republic of Ireland)...


    Preparation of test solutions, foods and silicon supplement

    UHP water (0·66 litres) containing orthosilicic acid (21·4 (se 0·5) mg Si) was prepared by diluting 371 μl of concentrated basic sodium silicate into 2·1 litres UHP water to a concentration of 32·5 (se 0·8) mg Si/l and then neutralised with 5 m-HCl to pH 7·0(15)... ChOSA was prepared by adding 1 ml of the product (20 mg Si/ml) to 199 ml UHP water and then immediately ingested... magnesium trisilicate BP, colloidal silica and MMST were ingested without any further preparation or dilution...


    Study design

    Due to the practicalities of organising one large study, four separate studies were conducted to investigate bioavailability of Si from the eight different sources...

    In study 1, subjects (three males and two females) ingested 660 ml alcohol-free beer containing 22·9 mg Si or the same volume of a solution of orthosilicic acid containing 21·5 mg Si as a positive control(7,15). In study 2, subjects (three males and two females) ingested 250 g peeled bananas (13·6 mg Si) or cooked green beans (6·1 mg Si). In study 3, subjects (four males and four females) ingested 200 ml UHP water supplemented with 20 mg Si from ChOSA (20 mg Si/ml) or 12·4 ml magnesium trisilicate BP containing 200 mg Si followed by 187·6 ml UHP water. In study 4, subjects (six males and eight females) ingested 60 ml MMST containing 6·9 mg Si or, in a small subset of subjects (n 3), ingested 60 ml colloidal silica containing 780 mg Si. The doses ingested for the latter four tests were the maximum doses recommended by the manufacturers, because, despite large differences in dose between the test substances, we anticipated that this would be counter-balanced by their differing degrees of absorption. In addition, we wished to ensure that detectable absorption was seen for all test substances and, as there is no evidence for saturation of the absorption pathway (here or published elsewhere), we chose the highest doses...


    Serum silicon

    The mean baseline (fasting) serum Si concentration was 113·9 (se 11·8) μg/l (range 38·5-326·7 μg/l) (Fig. 2) and, as expected, this increased significantly following the ingestion of a solution containing orthosilicic acid (P<0·0001) and following the ingestion of alcohol-free beer (P<0·0001) with peak concentrations observed about 1.5 h following ingestion (Fig. 2(a))... Additionally, serum Si increased significantly following the ingestion of colloidal silica (780 mg Si; P<0·001), magnesium trisilicate BP (200 mg Si; P<0·0001), ChOSA (20 mg Si; P<0·0001) and MMST (6·9 mg Si; P<0·0001) (Figs. 2(c) and (d)). Peak serum Si concentrations were observed 2 h following the ingestion of ChOSA and colloidal silica and at 4 h for magnesium trisilicate BP, but earlier at about 30 min for MMST and green beans. Notably, after the ingestion of magnesium trisilicate BP and colloidal silica the serum Si concentrations were still markedly elevated above baseline at the end of study period (i.e. at 6 h).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2744664/figure/F2/?report=objectonly

    figure 2 a and b.png


    figure 2 c and d.png

    Fig. 2

    Serum Si (μg/l) over the 6 h period following the ingestion of: (a) an orthosilicic acid (OSA) solution containing 21·4 mg Si (–○–; n 5) and alcohol-free beer containing 22·9 mg Si (–●–; n 5); (b) cooked green beans containing 6·1 mg Si (–△–; n 5) and ripe, peeled bananas containing 13·6 mg Si (–▲–; n 5); (c) colloidal silica containing 780 mg Si (–□–; n 3) and magnesium trisilicate British Pharmacopoeia (BP) containing 200 mg Si (–■–; n 8); (d) choline-stabilised orthosilicic acid (ChOSA) containing 20 mg Si (–◆–; n 8) and monomethyl silanetriol (MMST) containing 6·9 mg Si (–◇–; n 14). Results are means, with standard errors represented by vertical bars....


    Urinary silicon

    The mean baseline fasting urinary Si excretion was 0·745 (se 0·053) mg per 3 h (range 0·236-1·589 mg per 3 h) (Fig. 3). A significant increase in urinary Si over a 6 h period (collected as 2 × 3 h periods) was observed following the ingestion of orthosilicic acid (P<0·0001; Fig. 3(a)), alcohol-free beer (P<0·001; Fig. 3(b)) and green beans (P=0·04; Fig. 3(c)), but not after the ingestion of bananas (P=0·13; Fig. 3(d)). Similarly, an increase in urinary Si was also observed= following the ingestion of colloidal silica (P=0·03; Fig. 3(e)), magnesium trisilicate BP (P<0·001; Fig. 3(f)),=ChOSA (P<0·001; Fig. 3(g)) and MMST (P<0·001; Fig. 3(h)). Following the ingestion of magnesium trisilicate BP, urinary Si was greatest in the second 3 h collection period, whilst for all foods and food supplements urinary Si excretion was greatest in the first 3 h collection period.

    (continued next post)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020

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