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PG/E2 ratio??

Discussion in 'Optimal Labs' started by Hope, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/osteoporosis.24800/#post-291326

    [​IMG]

    Have you checked out https://osteostrong.pl/ in Poland?
    or https://www.osteostrong.dk/kontakt/ in Denmark?
    or https://osteostrong.se/free-session/ in Sweden?

    https://osteostrong.me/osteostrong-science/
     
    John Schumacher likes this.
  2. https://www.longdom.org/open-access...onse-asystematic-review-2157-7536-1000178.pdf
    Human hormonal response to continuous variable resistance has clinical results.
    Why do we thing HRT comes in a bottle - "take two and call me in two weeks?"

    If we are designed to be outside in the IR-A (morning) & UV-A&B (noon) & IR-A (sunset), than what?
    Our hormones are programmed by solar information & stimulated by piezoelectric effect.
    Sunbathing, fully exposed on a warm summer day - "Ah, it feels so good" - That's programming,
    but hormones need movement, stress -> Can we say, "Let's dance!" @JanSz ?

    Why are postmenopausal women look down upon as if something went wrong?
    It is finally their time to be free "like men" to express a life without pregnancy; the biological burden of reproduction is over!
    Why aren't there studies showing women how to fully embrace and strengthen this "phase" of their lives?

    What say you Dr. Jack Kruse?
     
  3. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  4. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    @John Schumacher

    https://osteostrong.me/osteostrong-science/

    "The greatest effect on bone strength and health is the result of high-impact activity, and hundreds of studies have confirmed this, even identifying the minimum dose of force required through bone as being over 4 times bodyweight in the hip joint."

    The links to the other sections of the site and the videos other than the "Understanding.. for Physicians" video aren't working on my computer, so I don't know what exactly the machines are doing to "emulate" impact or reduce it.

    But about the quote above - "minimum dose of force required through bones as being over 4 times bodyweight in the hip joint". So how to produce that force? Impact 4 times the bodyweight into the joint? Is there another way to put force through the bone other than impact? Is the research about using high impact to strengten bone narrowsighted because sure high impact might strengthen bone but it'll also cause other problems so it's not sustainable? What could people do if they don't have a machine that emulates high impact?

    If tension of the fascia can produce force through the bone, maybe enough tension in fascia (and proportionally) can make "over 4 times the bodyweight" of force or a lesser amount that works as effectively in context of other conditions from the fascia tension.
    Resistance training can also put tension through bone, but the most athletic and overall healthiest people have strong fascia. Big muscles from resistance training don't necessarily preclude strong fascia, but lots of people who lift weights don't have as much functional athletic ability as people who have strong fascia but might not look very muscular. The difference between Bruce Lee and lots of bodybuilders, or some NBA players and strongman competitors -- other than the usefulness of lifting huge amounts of weight for a short time, the overdevelopment of muscle without proportional fascia strength leads to injuries and health problems long term whereas prioritizing strengthening fascia makes for maybe less maximum weight that can be lifted but much better bodyweight strength and endurance abilities.

    ____

    page 380 of this PDF, "Fascia - The Tensional Network of the Human Body" edited by Schleip, Findley, Chaitow, and Huijing, 2012
    https://docdro.id/v0WC1PE
    I searched "osteoporosis"; there's probably better info in there about fascia's effect on bone strength.

    ____

    Now, the main thing that was leading to, and that I think the academic knowledge about fascia might sometimes support with details but isn't as essentially accurate as.

    Chong Xie teaches about how to strengthen fascia for athletic ability and injury prevention. I think he's onto something that isn't recognized in the mainstream academic perspective about fascia.

    Main Youtube channel page:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/Chongxiediscovery/videos

    He's made lots of videos, with interesting points spread out among them. Below are some videos I chose to try to give a sample.



    (2:19 - Lebron's feet look deformed by mainstream academic standards, but he's more athletic than any of the people the academic perspective would say have healthy feet (and Chong Xie's emphasis is on the effect of foot function on all the fascia), so maybe the academic understanding of athleticism (interaction of nerves, fascia, muscles, bones etc) is inaccurate.)

    foot.png

    Looks similar to Mike Tyson's feet:

    tyson.jpg





    (2nd half)


    EMG test:


    https://www.youtube.com/user/Chongxiediscovery/search?query=emg

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Chongxiediscovery/search?query=squat

    "Hindu squats" -- balancing on the front of the feet and letting the knees go out front of the toes while breathing out going down and in going up -- are, I think, the most ergonomic way to squat for the knees, and can help develop fascia tension in the feet and glutes when done slowly with relaxed breathing. Walking between sets of Hindu squats helps get the nerve connection from the tensioned feet and glutes into using it for other movements. About the breathing pattern - the common Western advice is breathe out on the exertion standing up and breathe in squatting down, but when I breathe out going down and in expanding up I can do hundreds if I breathe relaxed and slowly and move with the breathing contraction and expansion. I think the synchronizing of movement and breath in yoga and Qi Gong is important for making the nervous system prioritize balanced development of fascia tension and strength. Maybe the Western advice of breathe out standing up and in squatting is better for muscle hypertrophy; maybe the breathing relative to the movement affects how the interaction of fascia and muscles develops. I think I remember reading that "the breath" in Chinese qi cultivation methods doesn't mean just the breathing with the lungs but also the movement of qi through the channels (and I think the qi channels or meridians have something to do with the interaction between nerves and fascia), so the interaction between the movement of the fascia and the breathing with the lungs could affect the "breath" of the qi flow. Which would mean someone with fascia strength and athletic ability like Lebron or Mike Tyson is a kind of qi master.

    Other pages of his:

    https://www.instagram.com/secretofathleticism/?hl=en

    https://www.secret-of-athleticism.com/

    Chong Xie also talks about fascia strengthening being essential in martial arts traditions (he says it's been called silk reeling in Chinese systems), that those training disciplines re-tension the proportional tensions throughout the fascia when done right (done right being, for example, the difference between going through Qi Gong motions laxly or with fascia tensioning). And related to bone strength, that's why people who've trained in martial arts the right way (and aren't faking a demonstration) really are able to break through things or withstand forces that would break most people's bones -- not because of repeated impact strengthening the bone, because of tensional fascia strength that strengthens all the body's structural composition including the bones.

    Bruce Lee examples related to Chong Xie's ideas

    "When done correctly... starts at his feet."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCfWlYLKJLQ

    Because of proportional balance and control of fascia tensioning:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFujZ8zrr3E

    Other examples are the Maasai jumping dance and cats. Small muscles but lots of springiness from fascia tension that can quickly absorb force on impact and produce force (comparable to the force of an impact) to push to jump, accelerate from a standstill etc.

    ____

    Cornell Jenkins
    I'm not as familiar with his ideas as Chong Xie's, but it looks like he's training similar abilities.

    https://youtu.be/dl1vISKSn-4?t=1491

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVr3F5D6hsFdT-mtUY_TdLQ/videos
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
    John Schumacher likes this.
  5. Please study Dr. Kelly Starrett - "Becoming a Supple Leopard: The Ultimate Guide to Resolving Pain, Preventing Injury, and Optimizing Athletic Performance." https://thereadystate.com/
    Dr. Kelly Starrett is the very top in this field with over twenty years training the best of our special ops military
    https://www.imta.ch/en/blog/post/flossing-a-manual-therapy-approach/
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSB9whpaSVI
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
  6. Please Study - Dr. John Jaquish is the top in the field of Osteoporosis - He has written hundreds of medical journal articles.
     
  7. There is a very big difference between the skills and methods to improve human kinetic function.
    Please do not confuse tendons, muscle and bone strength.
     
  8. Fascia is in, around and connects all tissues including: (endoneurium, perineurium, epineurium), voluntary striated muscle fibers and the tissue covering and permeating it (epimysium, perimysium, endomysium), ligaments, tendons, aponeurosis, cartilage, bones, meninges, tongue just to name a few.
     
  9. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Why does what I wrote sound like I'm confusing strength of tendons, muscles and bones? I mean by strengthening the fascia that strengthens all the others most efficiently too. And since fascia's a general term, I mean by "strengthening fascia" some exercises that most efficiently prepare for and maintain functional balance of strength in all areas of the body. And the exercises have some essential things in common, so a person's able to learn how to train those essentials when they learn to feel them, so they can identify which exercises stimulate them most when starting to develop them and then feel how to maintain their use when doing movements other than the starting exercises to learn to use them. That fascia connects all those tissues in your fourth reply is all the more reason that if there are some exercises that are most efficient at strengthening fascia then they're best to get good at and prioritize as habits so that when doing other movements, exercises, sports it'll be more efficient, less stressful, more power available with less risk of injury.

    (Assuming there are some ways most efficient for balanced strengthening of the fascia) if it's not true that strengthening the fascia strengthens all the other tendons, muscles, bones etc why are big muscles (and strong tendons when doing the weightlifting ranges of motion, and strong bones) not as useful for athletics other than lifting extremely heavy weights while smaller muscles but stronger fascia makes a person able to lift almost as heavy weights but also be much better at agile athleticism? And why do people who train the muscles (and tendons in the ranges of weightlifting motions) disproportionately to the development of the fascia tension get injured more easily?

    Why was Michael Jordan able to jump from the free throw line with skinny legs but gym rats with bigger legs can't jump or sprint or run long distance? Jumping from the free throw line is more like a leopard than what she trains people in that book to do. She has good methods for balancing the effects of the other methods, but if she prioritized the most efficient kinds of fascia tensioning a lot of the methods would become unnecessary or a less worthwhile way to use training time. Great athletes didn't have to do all those kinds of methods to develop their athleticism. There are more efficient ways. Why aren't most trainers able to make a mediocre athlete (bodyweight sports) into a great one even with their academic knowledge from the top in the field people and the great athletes are almost always people who learned how to make explosive agile movements (using fascia tension) themselves by their teens so it became a strong enough subconscious habit (maintaining the proportional fascia tensions) before trainers could essentially mess it up when they started working with them more? Michael Jordan started lifting weights because his trainer said it would help and it messed up his movement and shot because lifting weights too much imbalanced the fascia tension and nerve connections he developed using his (attitude from his own superior-than-the-trainer's-training intuitive experience of athleticism and) feet and glutes strength as the dominant areas generating force for and stabilizing the rest of the body.

    I think why trainers aren't better at making mediocre athletes great and why most great athletes learned the essentials of the movements themselves in their teens is (more than is acknowledged by most mainstream fitness experts and sports trainers) because of attitude and use of the feet and glutes that made them strongly develop what's called in martial arts "root", which being strengthened during frequent practice playing a sport intensely, for example, or during whatever athletic ability the root strength could be applied to, makes a subconscious habit of using their (attitude and) feet strength to tension fascia in a balanced way throughout the rest of the body to be able to use the connections between feet and glutes efficiently making them springy anchors for the movement of other areas.

    jordan2.gif

    jordan3.gif

    That's because of the way he uses (predominantly) his feet and glutes. The Supple Leopard book doesn't teach the methods that stimulate intensely and efficiently enough the connections needed to develop that kind of integration (maybe, I think).

    One of the best exercises I've tried for developing the connections and "root" is to stand balanced on the feet's front pads and try to grip the ground, like squeezing the ground like you're trying to hold on to it tightly, with the toes, the arch, the heel, the ankles, up to the glutes. I also feel it in my tongue and neck and head. And hands and arms and shoulders and back. Especially (other than feet) calves, glutes, tongue, hands and fingers, and neck and head. So that feels like proof to me that just by focusing on an efficient way of strengthening the feet's rooting power it can strengthen connections to and balanced tension through all other areas. I did some quick squeezes to build into a deeper squeeze, and also hold the tension while keeping slowly making it a little tighter. I feel like I can get a better grip on grass with soil underneath that isn't perfectly flat -- more to grab ahold of than a flat indoor floor and enough resistance from the soil but it'll give a little getting squeezed too. I get jolts of tension through the fascia (sorry for being so general saying fascia again and again but). The jolts start with the feet and could travel to an area anywhere in the body. When I feel one of those jolts I relax for a moment then start with the feet again. I feel a downward pull and an upward push to differing extents as I tension different areas of the feet and glutes more or less, and when I get deep enough into it I've recently started to feel a springiness in front of my heel and beneath the anterior tibial tendon that feels like if that connection were stronger and using the springiness of it were habitual I'd be able to jump a lot easier. I was surprised the first time I felt that. I was gripping the ground as tightly as I could and I felt near the bottom of the inside of the arch under the anterior tibial tendon get springy suddenly, just by keeping trying to grip the ground more tightly, so it felt like developing the connections to grip the ground very tightly and being able to maintain that so the springiness (which happened at the farthest into I've made it so far after about a half hour) is available immediately would mean the ground gripping and root strength in the feet are important for a different kind of jumping than how most people use the feet to jump, and probably for accelerating running too. That feeling of sudden easy springiness in a spot I've never felt before makes me think there's something to the idea (that Chong Xie talks about in more detail) that extreme rooting strength of the feet develops nerve connections that a lot of people don't know are possible but some great athletes developed while young and have a subconscious habit of maintaining.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
  10. Question: What are you training for?
     
  11. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    Walking, running, hiking, endurance without injury while doing those, posture, balance, dancing, singing, knees and hips and spine strength, how to be in shape with an efficient use of time that'll help all of those in an integrated way. I liked sports as a kid but my legs were slow and uncoordinated so being able to use them better feels good. I don't care about getting big muscles; I want my feet and legs to be less heavy more springy, to be able to maintain being light on my feet for several hours. I stopped playing basketball in high school and mostly just hike since then because of my feet and legs feeling clumsy and imbalanced if I ride a roadbike, lift weights, try jogging, pretty much anything other than just walking and hiking. I think it's something to do with how I got used to moving my feet as a chubby sedentary kid wearing heavily-padded sneakers when I did anything outside. So walking still feels normal because of never wearing shoes in the house. I've hiked barefoot and worn minimalist shoes for about five years but it's less change than I expected. I've still felt like my feet are weak if I run or jump. But since trying some of the feet strengthening and rooting exercises that Chong Xie talks about (for about six months), it seems there's a lot of potential for how it could affect lots of activities if I could make it more set in, more automatic without having to exercise my feet for a half hour before it changes other movements.

    So it's an interesting idea to me that extreme (dare I say fascia) tension in the feet can be made habitual, and maintains the developed tensioned form better than muscles, and can feel relaxed enough for a person who develops it young enough to take it for granted (because of the nervous system adapting to it somehow I guess), and can strongly influence the form of all other movements, so a person who has that tensioned fascia strength set in as their normal relaxed baseline way of moving can do things easily that other people without it don't think their body could possibly do regardless of what kind of training they do (not being aware of the possibility because I do think lots of academics, trainers etc don't recognize the importance of it if they can't do it themselves and the athletes who do have it strongly developed usually developed it young enough that they didn't discuss with trainers or academics the technicalities of how they move the way they do and maybe have it so automatic that the trainers' advice doesn't do much to change the essentials of how they learned to move, so if there wouldn't be a lot of people who learned how to jump like Michael Jordan after being heavyfooted as a teenager and then also told people in anatomically-specific terms how they learned to do that then it wouldn't be a common scientific consideration of either of the other two groups (some martial arts methods acknowledge and teach it though, but that's kinda an insulated niche with terminologies that need translating for comparison to a western scientific fitness/sports/rehab paradigm, and there must be some sports trainers who recognize it, but it seems to me it's not common knowledge among experts who can't do it themselves)), and so if I put enough effort into developing that then maybe lots of other things would be much easier, I'd realize are possible with my body, like the springiness I suddenly felt, feeling like if I developed that I could jump in a different way than I thought possible to feel. And how would that or other things like that, that quickly change the ease of a new kind of movement, change walking, running, hiking, dancing, anything I do with my legs? And if it's easier to maintain than develop I'd rather practice developing that then other kinds of training.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2021
    John Schumacher likes this.
  12. Have you placed a question for the doctor - > "Ask Jack" -> specifically a protocol for "Light Water & Magnetism" for improving plantar fascial strength.
    I would be interested in what sunlight protocol and photobiomodulation he would recommend.
    Also, what moist earth training he would recommend -> for example: lunges along the seashore in the real wet location where your feet sink below the surface of the sand, or slowly extended ball over large toe walking in real thick slit of very thick wet clay again where your feet sink below the clay's surface.
    I know it may not make sense, but try exercising on a vibration plate while balancing on one bare foot.
     
  13. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    I don't have a membership so I can't post in the Ask Jack forum. I don't have a beach with sand nearby. I walk barefoot on thick grass that's a little like the give of sand. And dirt, gravel, concrete, but that's a different kind of stimulation than you mean. People who do reflexology should try hiking off trail and walking on pine cones. Anyway..
    I saw something on a podcast about a vibration plate or a specially designed for this thing soft material that requires more foot and ankle stability, that's used by powerlifters, I think. But I don't remember what podcast or what it is. Do you have an idea? I think it was designed for very heavy squats. Maybe it was the Joe Rogan Louie Simmons podcast.

    And about plantar fascia strength -- what I'm referring to when I say fascia tensioning and foot strength is a specific combination of tensions that Chong Xie calls the Hyperarch Mechanism, which he thinks can be more or less developed, so it's a continuum of the intensity and (for most athletes who are famous professionals in their 20s) subconscious habit of this set of tensions, and that lots of great athletes have signs of strong development of (visible in feet, ankles, leg posture, running and jumping technique), allowing movements that generate forces in ways unique to the use of this collective mechanism, generating of force I'm referring to by saying fascia tensioning that's efficient.

    But looking at a picture of Michael Jordan's foot, maybe Hyperarch isn't the best name for it, because MJ's flat footed.

    mj foot.jpg

    I still think there's something going on with the anterior tibial tendon, the ankle, the toes, the tendons in the area between the anterior tibial tendon and the toes, and the heel that can make a much springier way of moving even without the arch, because of how springy it felt suddenly in my foot when gripping the ground as much as I could. I felt it at the top of the arch in front of the heel below the anterior tibial tendon; maybe it can still work pretty much the same, maybe a little different from being closer to the ground, in someone flat footed. My foot looked similar on top to MJ's in the photo. Similar. The angle of the toe joints, the long subtle lines from the toes to the tendons and stuff at the front of the ankle, the protruding anterior tibial tendon, and the tension on the outside of the ankle. Mine wasn't as well proportioned or set in as his, but similar when the sudden springiness happened. I only felt that for a second and then couldn't get back into it, but that it's an automatic thing for some people to have that kind of foot tension set in normally, and so if they easily have that springiness feeling, I think it would make a big difference in running, jumping, and footwork. I think the pictures of Lebron's and Mike Tyson's feet I posted earlier are extreme examples of development of that mechanism. Someone could be very athletic and still have that mechanism hyperdeveloped, like MJ, without feet that look as deformed as Lebron or Tyson. But maybe Lebron has a stronger foot than MJ did. And Tyson's combination of footwork and power starting in his feet were the best of any boxer. So maybe even though their feet look deformed it's like another level of development (since theirs look similar) from even some of the most successful athletes whose feet usually look more like MJ's.

    Lebron did the free throw line dunk in a game more easily than MJ's. I'm probably not getting signed in the NBA as anything other than a Gatorade cupholder, but I'm 6'5" and it'd be fun to be able to dunk easily if this springiness thing gets easier and strong enough to jump using it.

     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
    John Schumacher likes this.
  14. Wow - 6'5" - Nice
    How's your overall posture? Your "photo" is probably not your best.
    As you probably know, this head forward position is controlled from flexibility, strength and location of the hips -> in sitting, standing, walking and running.
     
  15. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    When I walk for a couple hours or so my posture feels a lot better. Starting doing Hindu squats recently also feels good. I had back pain through my teens into my early 20s until I started eating healthier food. And sitting in a too-small wooden school desk in elementary school then a plastic chair in high school 7 hours a day was a pain. I ate TV commercial junk food, fast food, processed food kind of stuff a lot as kid until early 20s. And I played sports but didn't move a lot reguarly throughout the day, lots of sitting and then playing sports for a couple hours then more bad posture sitting. But better nutrition made the back pain stop. But my spine was still a little out of alignment. I tried lifting weights a little in my early 20s but because my back was a little asymmetrical the tensions in my limbs were too so the form was asymmetrical. So I figured it would be better to not lift weights so I wouldn't strengthen, intensify, set in imbalances from the asymmetrical form, and instead improve spine strength and symmetry of my body first. The hair on my torso has been asymmetrical since my teens, still is, so I guess there's imbalance in my nervous system or what I guess might be like qi meridians? Nothing I've done nutritionally, with sun and grounding, sleeping on a very firm bed, or long walking and hiking barefoot has changed that even though my spine and posture have improved some since my early 20s. I forget how I found Chong Xie's videos, probably something to do with barefoot running. The idea that strengthening the feet can change alignment of ankles, knees, hips, spine, neck because of the feet being important for the foundation counterforce to gravity when standing and so also when moving seemed like a worthwhile approach to try for improving the symmetry that would allow better form while doing more difficult kinds of exercise other than just standing and walking. So I've tried doing exercises to strengthen my feet, and also exercises that strengthen feet and legs at the same time like the Hindu squats balancing on the front of the foot, calf raises, slow almost shuffling small steps jogging focusing on the form of my feet alternating with walking. Those have helped. But because I see people who do barefoot running for years and still don't have the kind of form and movement from the feet that people who developed strong feet barefoot as a kid have, and Chong Xie was able to change his normal foot form to be more like that and teach some other people to do it, it seems like there are some specific exercises that are more efficient or maybe necessary for getting the kind of barefoot standing, walking, running, jumping form that people who kept it through childhood and teen years have as an adult. And if the stability of that form is strong enough, it's pretty much the same form even with shoes on, like basketball players or Kenyan marathon runners, which lots of people who start doing barefoot running, hiking etc as an adult because of having developed bad foot form as a kid seem to not be able to do (with the shoes) and they also don't have as good of form and strength even when barefoot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
    John Schumacher likes this.
  16. A note on Hindu squats -> Please consider not rolling up onto your toes; Try this: Feet hip width apart, toes pointing forward, knees at 90 degree up from the floor directly over your heels, hips inline directly up from your heels; now when you squat, sit back, weight on your heels, push your knees out, keep your shins at 90 degrees from the floor, knees will project slightly out from the 90 degree position you started at over your heels; allow your hips to open, sit as deeply as possible; if you feel like your going to fall backwards -> good; breathe, stay here for at least 2 minutes; practice this three times per day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  17. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    To get into the resting squat, to me it feels better to balance on the front pads of the feet (maybe heels touching the ground, maybe heels off the ground, depending how my hips and back postures are at that moment) and let my knees go in front of my toes squatting, then when my thighs are at or approaching about a 30-45 degree angle toward the ground from knees to hips, sitting the center of balance back onto my heels more, rolling the balance back, settling into the resting squat balancing using both front pads and heels and feet tension to keep a tiny bit of springiness in the knees (to avoid feet going numb, and I still need to adjust after a few minutes to keep enough springiness to avoid numbing), with knees above toes at the bottom resting position.

    maasaisrestingsquat.jpg

    But higher in the range of motion, going down or up, it feels more comfortable to let my knees go out front of my toes.

    guarding2.jpg

    guarding.jpg

    If I go all the way down but don't want to rest in that position, I mean if I'm doing "ass-to-grass" reps, it still feels best to let the knees go in front of the toes on the way down and up and roll the center of balance back onto the heels more into the bottom position and then roll from the heels onto the front pads more before the knees come back out front on the way up.

    If I were to pick something up off the ground, not knowing of or thinking about supposedly correct squatting form (according to maybe incomplete biomechanics theories of just the last 50 or 100 years? and that contradict how great athletes move when not just doing squats in a gym (the way Jordan's knees are while squatting but ready to move quickly)), I would use the front of my feet and let my knees go out in front of my toes. That's more comfortable, more natural for almost all people who haven't tried to get used to squatting with their knees behind their toes the whole way down because of theoretical advice that that's the correct way to do it as an exercise. What if that advice was because of consideration of some information about the forces on the knees but with more possibilities of forces considered it wouldn't make as much sense?

    What do you think about this?
    (description too)


    I don't know that's the more considerate situation, I don't know knees behind toes is bad advice. But it feels less comfortable and powerful to me. I've tried doing knees behind toes bodyweight squats since my teens because of the common advice until recently learning about Hindu squats and seeing that video. Sometimes I have my heels higher off the ground, sometimes heels are touching the ground but my balance is on the front pads, sometimes my knees are pointing outward more, sometimes my knees are pointing straighter, sometimes the balance in my knees goes through an inward-rotating circular motion on the way down with the balance starting in front and returning to the front at the bottom of the squat then rotating the opposite way on the way up. I let my knees move however's comfortable as the tensions through my legs from my feet to my glutes and hips and lower back change from warming up to more reps.

    And breathing out on the way down and in up with my core contracting and expanding has helped me have a lot more endurance. I haven't tried the knee positions that are comfortable to me combined with breathing in down and out up to see how much either one affects endurance separately, but with comfortable knee positions and out down in up breathing and doing the reps slowly with (somewhat, trying to keep) relaxed breathing I can do hundreds whereas with breathing in down out up and knees behind toes I could only do about 50 before needing a break for at least ten minutes or so to avoid muscle burning and joint fatigue. So maybe the in down out up breathing pattern affects lactic acid or muscle growth in some way to make bigger muscles with fewer reps, but because the out down in up breathing pattern allows more endurance, I think it's healthier overall, and I think maybe because of the nervous system being affected by the out down in up breathing pattern to prioritize strengthening of fascia (my general term for a more holistic balance of proportions of developement of all tissues) instead of predominantly muscle hypertrophy like the common western in down out up breathing pattern seems to prioritize. And the out down in up breathing pattern can still make bigger muscles if the person has time to do lots of reps, but maybe in a more balanced-through-all-tissues way.

    The Great Gama did thousands of Hindu squats each day without knee problems and had big leg muscles from mostly bodyweight exercises (HIndu squats, Hindu pushups, running, and isometric pulling on a tree trunk).

    greatgama.jpg

    greatgama2.jpg

    I still agree that balancing more on the heels is comfortable in the all-the-way-down resting squat position but after rolling the center of balance back close to the bottom with the knees coming from in front to behind the toes with that roll.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
    John Schumacher likes this.
  18. Try to get to all your weight on your heels, knees pushed out, sit upright forcing your lumbar spin into natural form and breathe
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  19. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    You mean when all the way down in the resting squat? It's better to put all the weight on the heels in resting squat?
    Ok I just tried it, and yeah you're right. I didn't describe right what I do. I was describing it from imagining it instead of right after doing it. I do put the weight all on my heels, and instead of some weight on the front too, like I said, there's tension in the front that makes it feel like there's some pull forward from the weight on the heels to keep the balance. It's not weight on the front, but tension in the front of the feet that tenses the glutes to help support the knees, so like a counterbalance from the heels.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  20. Dan2

    Dan2 Pedantic schlub

    After watching the video you added with your edit, at 3:51 his form is similar to the Maasai picture in my post above but in addition to his knees being more forward he looks higher up. When I stay up enough for my knees to be out that far, it's uncomfortable in my knees because it feels like I'm not all the way down. I can push my lower spine forward and that pushes my knees out and my glutes higher up from the ground but then it feels more like holding an isometric pose than resting, and it hurts my knees to keep my weight on my heels with my knees that far out and my glutes that high up because when my knees and glutes are that far out and high up that's where, if I were going through the range of doing a squat, I would have my weight on the front of my feet before or after rolling the weight back to or from the heels at the bottom (further down than the guy in the video is, like the Maasai picture). If I don't go all the way down so I roll back onto my heels into the bottom, it feels better to keep my weight on the front of my feet at the higher bottom of that lesser range of motion. It feels more comfortable to me, like resting instead of an isometric hold, to be resting further down with knees further back like the Maasai picture. I think either the guy in the video doesn't have enough flexibility in the front of his hips and lower spine and enough strength in the anterior tibial tendon and tendons connecting to the toes to go all the way down where his knees would be further back slightly behind his toes, he doesn't do that roll back into the very bottom that feels comfortable to me, or the Maasai guy and I don't have enough strength in our knees, lower back and glutes to rest that high up. The Maasai's glutes are just about touching his ankles, I don't go quite that far, but I'm a lot closer to that form, the essentials of the form are pretty much the same as that, compared to the guy in the video.

    (I edited this several times; if you haven't noticed, I have a bad habit of posting then editing the post several times, so it'll make more sense checking back a little while after I first post it.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
    John Schumacher likes this.

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