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ox bile / bile acid factors - recommendations?

Discussion in 'The Epi-Paleo Diet' started by ealachan, May 23, 2012.

  1. ealachan

    ealachan New Member

    Just wondering what brands of ox bile or bile acid factors anyone might recommend?
  2. janagram

    janagram New Member

    I am using Superenzyme by Whole Foods which contains some oxbile and some HCL as well as other enzymes. It is serving better than the other versions I was taking.
  3. BJK77

    BJK77 Gold

    I use Nutricology Ox bile.
  4. ealachan

    ealachan New Member

    I bought the Now Foods one yesterday...it had good reviews on Amazon. I'll be sure to report back.
  5. Martha Barger

    Martha Barger Martha Ray

    This has been my past research on Bile. Pre stricter Paleo and pre JK and OHF
    Props to Louise Gittleman, Dr. Victor Marchione, Michael McEvoy and also the commentators who shared.
    Seasonal eating may fix or flip some of these thoughts?

    I am hypothyroid since 2005, not believed to be Hashimoto's, so was looking for 'cause and effect' then and I'd like to know what you folks think about Bile in relation to thyroid but also Bile in general. Back in the 70's and 80's I lived in Houston and ate out a lot and about 3 times a year I'd have an upset of vomiting and sometimes diarrhea. Rancid oils I think caused those- The only time I noticed my bile---as I recall it was yellow but have read that it can be green or yellow.

    Please Let me know if the links are broken. I am not used to inserting links on this forum.
    Posting in Arial font to make reading online easier per Iris software developer Daniel Georgiev.

    Got Bile? part 1

    Low Bile flow is Key in Sluggish Gallbladder & Fat Absorption

    Martha Ray’s personal notes updated 12/4/2019 7:15 AM from Louise Gittleman’s presentation at the
    2016 Medicinal Supplement Summit

    · Clogging can be due to food sensitivities top three offenders are Eggs, pork, onions.

    Symptoms of Sluggish Bile

    · Hypothyroidism and nausea

    · Pain and sleep disorders

    · Sight, bitter mouth, fatigue, lack of energy and stress

    Consequences of removing the gallbladder

    · Fat breakdown is impaired. Fat breakdown is needed to carry the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E or K!

    · A-is Anti-infection
    D-is Hormone needed for immune system
    E-the Fertility hormone
    K-is Needed to keep calcium where it should be

    To help Bile:

    · Lecithin Non GMO sunflower -· Choline (I take Lekithos Sunflower All natural liquid lecithin - rich in choline! I take in smoothies.

    · Beets grate raw beets on your food and salads!!

    · Lemon juice in warm water in the morning

    · Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) – Malic acid 2 teas in 8 oz of water 3x a day (Personal note: Before using ACV check Stephanie Blacktons at Ten2Wellness test on too acid or too alkaline. Also ACV not recommended for A blood types per BTD.)

    · Berberine 250 – 500 mg with each meal (My note: I like Coptis aka Golden thread & Oregon grape root)
    Berberine is a yellow-colored alkaloid compound found in several different plants, including European barberry, goldenseal, goldthread, Oregon grape, phellodendron, and tree turmeric. Michael McEvoy has mentioned Coptis before for Diabetes and blood sugar control and he recommended making a tea from the roots.

    · Artichokes - Oregon's Wild Harvest Artichoke

    · Orthophosphoric Acid – do not let in linger on teeth can hurt enamel
    Biotics Super Phosphozyme Liquid Progressive Laboratories - OPA 2 Ounces

    · Bitters--Bitter is better - Digestive Bitters, · Orange peel, · Gentian root, · Angelica root
    · Bitter lettuce--- Watercress, Arugula, Endive, radicchio

    · Horseradish – very anti-cancer!

    · Bile salts ( NutriCology Ox Bile (500 or 125 mg doses), Standard Process Cholacol ), beet root, lipase

    · Lipase (I take Sunshine Herbs Hi-Lipase and Integrative Therapeutics LIPASE CONCENTRATE-hP
    Emerson Ecologics Also see Integrative Therapeutics Lipase Concentrate-HP

    Dosage: Take 1 or 2 capsules at the beginning of each meal containing fat, or as recommended by your healthcare professional. Lipase Concentrate-HP Ingredients Serving Size: 2 Veg Capsules Amount/Serving %DV, Microbial Enzymes Assay Method 110 mg**, Lipase I, II FIP (pH 7.0) 12,600 FIP**, FCC III (pH 6.5) 5,160 LU*, Other Ingredients cellulose, vegetable polysaccharide capsule, ascorbyl palmitate. (Martha Ray's Note: for those with Nightshade sensitivity-I think ascorbyl palmitate might contain potato or potato starch this is one of the fillers in supplements that I believe bothers me.)

    · Bile builder http://www.unikeyhealth.com/Shared/upload/Bile-Builder.pdf WLC10

    · Standard Process– Cholacol supports healthy fat digestion. www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Cholacol

    -Source of bile salts.

    -Supports gallbladder function.

    -Helps enzymes break down fats, which can help with discomfort after eating a fatty meal.
    -Supports healthy elimination

    Low Bile Flow is a cause or certainly a factor in Hypothyroidism


  6. Martha Barger

    Martha Barger Martha Ray

    Got Bile? part 2a comments shared by Martha Barger

    Mary O'Donnell I have a couple of other things that saved my gallbladder from emergency surgery:
    1. castor oil packs at night
    2. gold coin grass [quality tincture from sensiblehealth.com much stronger in an urgent case than some of the other stone breaking herbs]
    3. The Dr. Christopher 3 day cleanse, this literally will unblock bile, it is amazing
    4. And a combination of broths and the diet recommendations offered by gallbladderattack.com

    I was a very extreme case and the urgency occurred after I took that liver flush drink that she tells people NOT to take. So many people out there are showing pics of the stones they flush out but they don't realize a percentage of people will get a big one stuck and that it can aggravate the pancreas and limit food intake afterwards. That said, the 3 day apple juice cleanse is another old remedy that does actually work.

    My gallbladder is now able to withstand virtually any fat or food I throw at it, butter, eggs, chocolate, meats [not pork], nuts and nut butters, not palm oil, avocados, etc, but basically having read a lot of blogs I seem to be able to eat better than anyone seems to predict. It was such a miraculous reversal that a surgeon friend of my mine is now training in natural medicine. And I didn't even know half the supplements recommended in this talk at the time - better to be prepared folks!

    I now use beets regularly and bitters less often than I'd like, but I'm not taking any supplements except maintenance with the GCG every so often.

    Wendy Myers Mod Mary O'Donnell • Good for you! I love to hear natural healing stories like this! I am so saddened when I hear of dr's removing gall bladders without giving SIMPLE tips like these to help their patients, who then have lifelong digestive issues because they have no gallbladder. Just a crime!

    Mary O'Donnell Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS I wish I'd known about you at the time ;) I should add that I also had to use enemas when bowel function was down, but that was the one time I could not use a coffee enema, but when that issue was resolved coffee enemas were fine again, [which I'd been using for something else!]

    Avery Wendy, thank you so much for this excellent summit and a special thank you to Dr. Gittleman for this valuable information on bile.

    I recently did a live blood test which showed that out that I have parasites, metals, undigested protein and yeast in my blood. Very concerned about this finding….Started adding chlorella, fibre, digestive enzymes and looking for a parasite cleanse. I know that I have some gallstones. Constipation often a problem unless take Mag Citrate every night. I do drink lemon juice in a.m. and have been using apple cider vinegar before meals to boost HCl acid but now will not until yeast improved if that is even possible. I probably have sluggish bile flow.

    Is it safe to add bile supplements while trying to clean up metals and then the yeast in my blood?
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  7. Martha Barger

    Martha Barger Martha Ray

    Got Bile? Part 3 shared by Martha Barger

    Martha Ray's Notes: There is some conflicting info out there as to what foods to avoid or eat…
    These tips from Bile function and liver: Foods that help increase bile production
    By: Dr. Victor Marchione | Liver | October 10, 2016

    Bile production is largely based on the foods we eat. Certain foods can increase bile production.
    These foods include celery, radish, and artichokes.
    Here are some tips to naturally increase your liver’s bile production:

    · Drink a glass of warm water with lemon upon awakening

    · Avoid eating sugars and processed foods

    · Consume bitter foods

    · Eat garlic, onions, and carrots

    · Drink tea made from dandelion, peppermint, green tea, or ginger

    · IF dairy does not bother you and you own a share of a A2 grass fed cow prepare and drink homemade buttermilk and yogurt

    Tips to keep your liver healthy Below you will find helpful tips that can help keep your liver healthy.
    · Don’t drink too much alcohol

    · Don’t overindulge in fatty foods

    · Be mindful of medications

    · Don’t touch or breathe in toxins

    · Don’t smoke and avoid second-hand smoke

    · Eat foods high in selenium, such as Brazil nuts (My note: No more than 2 peeled at a time), brewer’s yeast, brown rice, garlic, onions, and molasses.

    · Eat foods high in methionine as they can detox the liver. These foods include eggs, fish, legumes, and seeds.

    · →Consume high sulfur foods, such as broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, Brussels sprouts for further detoxifying

    · Eat foods with vitamin B5, including whole grains, chicken, wheat bran, and nuts.

    · Eat foods high in vitamin B1 that can reduce toxic effects, such as wheat germ, peas, and soybeans.

    · Consume coffee, as it contains phytonutrients – be mindful of additives such as cream, milk, and sugar, and don’t have more than three cups of coffee a day.

    And Opposite advise from Biliary Health: The Liver and Gallbladder the Whole Journey
    Things to reduce or avoid for gallbladder health:

    · →Foods from the cabbage family: broccoli, cabbage, lettuce

    · Reduce Sodium

    · Reduce cholesterol rich foods such as red meats, dairy products and eggs

    · Reduce foods known to be common allergens such as gluten-containing grains, soy products, corn, peanuts and citrus.

    · Avoid large meals especially before bed time. Try not to eat 3-4 hours before bed.

    Tips for supporting the liver and gallbladder:

    · Eat foods that promote bile formation such as: raw shredded beets, organic apples and ginger.

    · Eat bitter foods such as dandelion greens and other dark leafy greens. Bitters stimulate the flow of bile in the gall bladder, helping us digest fats. Try adding them in salads, or even eating a few leaves while preparing a meals so that the bile is ready to emulsify whatever fat you consume.

    · Take fish oil capsules – It contains omega 3 oils which are known to block cholesterol formation in bile

    · Vitamin C rich foods such as papaya, red bell peppers, strawberries, oranges and lemons.

    · Hydration: Drink at least 8 glasses of mineralized water a day. We recommend 1 liter per 50 lbs of body weight.

    · Foods rich in pyridoxal, folate and cobalamin are three effective nutrients that support the livers biochemical pathways. (see below)

    · Pyridoxial rich foods: Potatoes, bananas, garbanzo beans, and chicken breast.

    · Folate rich roods: Beef liver, spinach, and asparagus.

    · Cobalamin rich foods: Trout, salmon, beef,.

    · Eat foods high in minerals: copper, zinc, selenium and potassium such as: squash, avocados, shellfish, and spinach.

    · Stress management: Breathing, yoga, regular exercise

    · Support the pancreas by stabilizing blood sugar.

    · Increase antioxidants: Raw cacao, blueberries, prunes, pomegranates, kale, brussel sprouts, and beets

    · Avoid hydrogenated fats and oils

    Liver and gallbladder cleansing juice recipe:

    3 kale leaves

    1 handful dandelion greens

    3 stalks of celery

    1 handful of parsley

    1 large beet

    1” section of ginger (peeled)

    2 green apples

    1 cucumber

    2 lemons

    by Emily Potter
  8. Martha Barger

    Martha Barger Martha Ray

    Got Bile? part 2b comments continued shared by Martha Barger

    Wendy Myers Mod Avery • OH yes! Beyond safe!
    YOU NEED BILE to detox metals and improve digestion.

    Avery Wendy Myers Wow. Had no idea about bile supplements. Thank you.

    JJ Avery Food grade Diatomaceous earth can be useful for parasites. Tasteless, easy to take powder that dissolves in plain water. May also help with joint pain. Coffee enema can help with bile flow. Candida yeast is very difficult to clear because it can transform - Mary Ann Copson at Evenstar has a protocol that may be helpful on her website. Thank you so much for your text and each of the suggestions.

    Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Avery Thank you for your question. I would suggest that a bile supplement would be very helpful for you in light of your heavy metal and yeast detox.

    Avery Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Thank you. I thought that it may and appreciate your reply.

    TrudyScottNutritionist Hi Ann Louise I love so much that you share and particularly enjoyed this interview - thank you! I have a question about the eggs, pork and onions study by Breneman - would these show up on IgG food sensitivity tests or was it IgE allergies? I can see the study in pubmed but there is no abstract and would love a link to a blog you've written on this topic and/or find out if you've written more about this in detail in any of your wonderful books?

    Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Trudy Scott Nutritionist Thank you for your question. My kindle book, Eat Fat, Lose Weight has a link to my source for this info which was first brought to my attention through a newsletter by Jonathan Wright. Hopefully, you might be able to discern the exact nature of the allergy testing which was performed in the 60’s…

    Trina Ann Louise, You said you do not like the old way of removing gall bladder or liver stones with apple juice & olive oil. I think you are referring to what I used to do with apple juice & EVOO & Standard Process phosfood liquid which I still have even if date is expired (it has been in the fridge all these years). Your concern is some who did this method had stones stuck. If apple juice was drunk at required volume for 3 days before the flush, wouldn't all the stones soften & pass through with flush? What are the possible reasons why stones get stuck - not softened or too big even if soft? I have seen green then brown colored stones softened pass after this flush & they have reduced as I did this flush annually until I stopped many yrs ago. (Is) The recommended current method, …Standard Process phosfood taken as is with water or apple juice without the EVOO flush?

    Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Trina Thank you for your question. If gallbladder stones are confirmed, I would recommend Bile Builder along with an orthophosphoric acid supplement and the extra virgin olive oil and apple juice cleanse. I cannot tell you why certain stones get stuck in the ducts as I do not know the mechanism involved. Thank you!

    Trina Ann Louise, You mentioned food sensitivities associated intake of eggs, pork & onion.
    Did the study say what in onion was causing adverse effect? I do not take pork nor eggs.

    Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Trina There was no reason provided regarding the mechanism behind the onion allergy. I suspect it may be the sulphur component, although I cannot say for sure!

    Susan Stewart Such excellent advice from Ann Louise Gittleman - so accurate, so practical. I couldn't agree more - healthy bile production is under appreciated in detox, immunity, hormones, weight. Even though I am well-versed in many of the foods and products she recommends, I learnt A LOT about how to bring it all together while keeping it simple enough. Glad to see more of her advice in First magazine lately. Personally, I would like to hear more from Ann Louise Gittleman on any subject she would care to speak about. She has 40 years of natural health experience with a solid science background. Thank you Wendy.

    Trina Ann Louise, You mentioned to take lecithin from organic soy lecithin but there are risks of even organic farms being contaminated by GMO toxins in the air or environment. I use sunflower source of Vit. E, & stopped the brands from soy. You support NOW brand from soy lecithin. Did you inquired from this company if their farm growing soy is protected from contamination in environment from surrounding farms that may have GMO? Since I am vegan, I do not take eggs for choline so is there a resource in your website of other food sources?

    JJ Trina Sun(flower seed) butter!

    Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Trina Thanks for your questions. The research on lecithin was done on soy which is why it is my preferred source. Since soy or sunflower lecithin are both sources of choline you should be fine. Thanks!

    Wendy Myers Mod Trina Sunflower lecithin is a great alternative as well.

    Trina Wendy Myers Thanks, Wendy, have you found lecithin in powder or flake form from sunflower? I haven't really searched but will now. I used lecithin flakes but it was from soy, not even organic years ago. I prefer food form rather than supplements but if none, which brand has lecithin from sunflower. My Healthy Origins Vit E is from sunflower 400 IU. They have soy lecithin Vit E which I apply topically since I had stock.

    (Martha Ray's Note:
    I use Sunflower Lecithin, Organic Oils and Plant Proteins | LEKITHOS https://www.lekithos.com/

    Trina Ann Louise, I have been a vegetarian since my teens but it was off & on. I have stopped meats more than 5 years ago & went vegetarian (with eggs) until I turned vegan to see if more pains will go away. I started live foods using low heat in crockpot some 3 yrs ago & have been a vegan since then studying nutrition to know what nutrients are missing in vegan diet. Some of my supplements like multivitamins, digestive enzymes are the vegan brand. I have been waking up in past months with pain in meridian in outer leg, sometimes left side & both sides at times. A health consultant who studied shiatsu said this is gall bladder meridian. I used to do liver flush using apple juice to soften stones, if any. Standard Process phosfood drops is mixed with either water (60 drops I think) or apple juice for some 45 drops for some 3 days then on last day I take a cup of extra virgin lite olive oil with grapefruit juice (to push it down). I was doing this annually until I started live foods which is cleansing by its nature. I am thinking of reviving this liver/gall bladder flush.
    I have taken freshly picked dandelion from garden for bitter taste for liver since spring until summer annually for past yr. I steamed dandelion leaves. I take coconut milk, oil & products almost daily & avocado which are my fat sources. I am wondering if these fats are being absorbed considering the pain in meridian of gall bladder. Can you see what I mean? I went to your website & saw the bile supplement & wondering if I should try that before or after liver flush. Please advise. I saw you in your Bozeman office when I met James who did my dark field blood test. I have attended your nutrition lecture in The Ranch Kitchen in Corwin Springs year ago.Thanks ….

    Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Trina Thank you for your question. I would definitely try
    Bile Builder and see if that helps you before proceeding with another protocol. Good luck!

    Wendy Myers Mod Trina Note, you only have 3-5 year's store of B12 in your body. People who are low in B12 can get neuropathy. I've seen this in friends who started eating meat again and their pains went away, fyi. You cannot get B12 in a vegan diet. Nutritional yeast contains b12 analogs that actually increase your need for B12. Be sure to take a b12 supplement daily. I like Adenosine by Seeking Heath. That could be the source of pain, but could not tell you for sure.

    Trina Wendy Myers Thanks for your comments, Wendy. As vegan & on live food diet for some 3 yrs or so I take 2 supplements with B12, knowing vegan diet does not have it. Deva for vegans has B12 2500 mcg sublingual so I take one tab per day. Methylcobalamin is type. I also take Rainbow Light B-Complete with B12 as cyanocobalamin 50 mcg per serving or 1 tab a day. I posted a question to one of your speaker’s days ago whose slide said cyanocobalamin should be avoided but got no answer. Do you know why before I change brand? What kind of test can tell if quantity of supplement taken are sufficient & this changes over time is this a practical way this can be tested through the year?

    Wendy Myers Mod Trina You can get your blood levels of B12 taken. Best to first evaluate your levels. You don't want to take cyanocobalamin because it is not methylated. Your body has to convert it before it can be used by the body. And veggies tend to have less ability to do this. You want Methylcobalamin. You only want to take a B complex that has methylated B vitamins because they don't need to be converted by the body.
    Martha’s note: I take Food Research’s 100% Food Be Complex that I still believe Food B is best. If you test low use a Methylated product like Seeking Health until you raise it and then try the food.

    Micky Can you please advise why people would get mouth ulcers from Swedish Bitters? Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS Micky The Swedish Bitters could be too acidic. Try dandelion root tea instead.

    GrannyD … I have never thought or heard of this. Grateful. This could also help me with my weight issues.

    Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS GrannyD That's wonderful! Bile certainly is beautiful. :)

    Wendy Myers Mod GrannyD Haha! I'm glad you enjoyed it! I loved the interview as well.

    It's so important to take bile salts!!! I’ve taken them for YEARS! I love BILE! Ann Louise Gittleman, PhD, CNS GrannyD That's wonderful! Bile certainly is beautiful. :) (My note: I have taken NutriCology Ox Bile 125 mg and 500 mg and Standard Process Cholacol and Not good to take bile salts ongoing per Michael McEvoy with Metabolic Healing Michael works a lot with practitioners… teaching them about genetics and the related metabolic processes. Additionally: http://www.thesaurustea.com/loose-herbal-teas?product_id=161 Peppermint is an herb and contains no caffeine. Peppermint is consumed after meals as the oils stimulate the flow of bile to the stomach. Helps relieve gas pains. Peppermint may support liver function by promoting the flow of bile. Bile helps digest fats and encourages normal cholesterol levels; normal cholesterol levels reduce the workload placed on the liver.)
    ElectricUniverse likes this.
  9. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    Thx for sharing great ideas from the experts.

    One thing we know is that a healthy gall bladder and bile flow is a prerequisite for successful detoxing through liver. Liver's detox processes needs normal bile production and flow to take toxins that liver has collected and to carry toxins via bile into intestines for elimination in feces.

    It is counterproductive to encourage liver detox function with faulty bile performance-- toxins then exit liver and back up into blood and then recirculate through enterohepatic system to brain and other organs.

    Dr Chris Shade has done some outstanding research on this and even has his own company that distributes metals detox products. He always stresses the bile factor big time as part of a detox regimen. He recommends bitters to stimulate bile flow, and phospholipids (preferably in liposomal form but lecithin can work) to ensure toxin-laden bile flows into bile ducts and gets the nasty stuff into intestines for elimination. You need binders present in intestines to ensure toxins are escorted safely out of system and into toilet (otherwise, toxins are reabsorbed in intestines and get recirculated).

    Coffee enemas and liver compression massage can also help. I am a big fan of coffee enemas although I dislike coffee drinking. The lemon juice/olive oil purge has a lot of fans too.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019

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