1. Registering for the Forum

    We require a human profile pic upon registration on this forum.

    After registration is submitted, you will receive a confirmation email, which should contain a link to confirm your intent to register for the forum. At this point, you will not yet be registered on the forum.

    Our Support staff will manually approve your account within 24 hours, and you will get a notification. This is to prevent the many spam account signups which we receive on a daily basis.

    If you have any problems completing this registration, please email support@jackkruse.com and we will assist you.


Discussion in 'Optimal Labs' started by Jenny S, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Jenny S

    Jenny S Gold

    Had a bone density scan & my results are attached.
    Doc now wants me to take 2 calcium & vit D tablets every day, plus Alendro once weekly tablets 70mg. I'm guessing these aren't good? Apparently can cause reflex & gastro upset.

    I'm 62 & doc said it's because of menopause. I try to get at least an hour or sun everyday, in morning, with about half naked.

    He also did blood tests for calcium & vit d a week ago but results seem to be lost.

    Any suggestions much appreciated

    Attached Files:

  2. Anne V

    Anne V Silver

    @Jenny S , Jack does not recommend taking vit D tablets . i would put the link , but cant as internet so unstable here .
    if somebody can help with it, thanks.

    i think Vit K is more appropriate . for calcium , i would not take any calcium pills
    i would eat raw cheese and raw butter . maybe @Inger can help .

    skin in the game is go in the sun as much as possible.
    blue blockers , no artificial lights @night ...
    no sunscreen, min time on phones , computers.
    Jenny S and caroline like this.
  3. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Jenny, if result are lost, then he needs to make a new test! That is weird. Please do not supplement vit D, you need it from the sun. Also calcium supplementation is not wise! See Jacks work.

    And half naked is not good enough, get 100% naked.
    Build a privacy shelter if needed. 1 hour/day is also too little, if you can get more.. When sun is out you need to be outside all day as much as you can make it. It needs to be your priority Nr1 (-build your life around the sun), because when we age our skin makes less vitD from the same amount of sun!

    Read Jacks blogs again, about osteoporosis, and menopause. They are great :)

    Eating some raw sheep or goat milk cheeses as you lie naked in the sun(away from nnEMF) may not be a bad idea :) :) :)


    Cheese contains a synergistic blend of very important nutrients-Vitamin K2, D3, and Calcium. When consumed together, they protect your bones, brain and heart by channeling calcium into your bones and teeth while keeping it out of your arteries.

    That said, some people do not tolerate any cheeses/dairy. So you have to test how it makes you feel. I tolerate sheep and goat dairy, raw, and well - so far I think. Other dairy not so well. Pasteurized dairy is not good for me at all.

    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
    John Schumacher and Anne V like this.
  4. Jenny S

    Jenny S Gold

    Unfortunately in OZ, raw dairy is banned, as from a couple of years ago.
    I mean about 1/2 hr sun is fully naked, but will try & get more. Will read blogs thanks Inger
  5. Inger

    Inger Silver

    Jenny, that is a bummer that raw cheeses are banned. A>re you sure? Really weird. Raw dairy/milk I would understand, but raw cheeses?
    In Europe raw cheeses are very present everywhere. Maybe we are lucky...

    Great that you try get as much sun as possible, naked or not, everything counts :)
  6. Jenny S

    Jenny S Gold

    Yes pretty sure about the raw cheese. 2 kids died about 3 or 4 days after having raw milk & even tho they couldn't directly associate it with this, there had been people trying to ban it for a while & used this as an excuse about 4 years ago. Before then I used to go & get milk straight from vat from an organic dairy farmer about 10 mins away
  7. LillianVaughanws

    LillianVaughanws New Member

    Don't poison yourself with pills! Eat cottage cheese, drink milk and everything will be fine.
  8. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    seriously???? cottage cheese and milk????

    A human pic is required here ....
  9. DrEttinger

    DrEttinger Choice, the only thing we control

    Jenny, you have been living on the Earth for the past 62 years and you were just diagnosed with osteoporosis. A letter comes in the mail inviting you to live for a year aboard the international space station. You accept. Now aboard the ISS, you decide to handle your bone loss. You do your research and begin to take a dump truck load of natural products such as calcium hydroxyapatite, vitamin D2, K2, boron, magnesium, and silica. You sit in front of a UVB lap daily. You get your estrogen levels dialed-in. You even take one of the medications Boniva or Phosphmax. You did all of this and your next bone density scan shows your osteoporosis had WORSENED, at an accelerated rate. Why?

    "Wolff's law was not applied -
    A law stating that bone density changes in response to changes in the functional forces on the bone. Wolff (1836–1902) proposed that changes in the form and function of bones, or changes in function alone, are followed by changes in the internal structure and shape of the bone in accordance with mathematical laws. Thus, in mature bone where the general form is established, the bone elements place or displace themselves, and decrease or increase their mass, in response to the mechanical demands imposed on them. The theory is supported by the observation that bones atrophy when they are not mechanically stressed and hypertrophy when they are stressed. Although Wolff's proposal relates specifically to bone, the law has also been applied to other connective tissues such as ligaments and tendons."

    All the supplements, sun/UVB, dairy, medications in the world did not help you while aboard the ISS. Why? Because there was no gravity! It's the same on Earth. Sit/lay more than you are weight-bearing and the femoral head and spine develop osteoporosis, no matter the chemical intervention. Walk-up stairs, power lift, run... and maybe it would never have developed in the first place. Even if it did, continued activity with the addition of targeted interventions would handle it in short order.

    I have been doing this for the past 31 years and have seen scans improve almost 100% of the time.

    You will always get an answer in the context of who you asked. Eat dairy and it will all be better is a classic example. Human physiology and biochemistry will always be your source to answer these types of questions. Now just wait for the 5G guys to chime in, as every ill the can ever happen to us is due to aberrant EMF
    John Schumacher and caroline like this.
  10. @DrEttinger - Would you recommend https://www.jaquishbiomedical.com/x3-bar/?
  11. DrEttinger

    DrEttinger Choice, the only thing we control

    If you have $550 burning a hole in your pocket go for it. Push-ups, lunges, plank, jumping jacks, squats, burpees... are free. Tried and true and will be so forever.
    caroline and John Schumacher like this.
  12. Some people need the extra burden of a financial expenditure to "motivate" themselves into what could have been "just do it".
    DrEttinger likes this.
  13. @DrEttinger - Dr. John Jaquish, as you probably know, obtained his doctorate in Osteogenic Loading and is board member of American Bone Health, has invented https://osteostrong.me/#5 that provides axial compression to the bone.

    He also developed X3 bar, which employs the super slow technic of Dr. Doug McGough MD “Body by Science”. The product comes with guided training, beginning to advance. Compared to the number of machines needed to employ this type of Osteopathic improvement, you simply take it outside, fully exposed to the sun, it takes about 12 minutes.

    Over my fifty years consulting others, I have found you need as many tricks in your tool bag as possible before you find the few that make the difference for the person you're currently working with.
    DrEttinger likes this.
  14. The guided training for the X3-bar is osteopathically technical as well as informative.

    For example the training explains - Breath Control – partial Valsalva – what that mean? (I'm sure @DrEttinger knows) You have a void in the middle of your core; your lungs; these voids do not build the structure; however, we need to employee core rigidity; to do this - inhale at the bottom of the movement, then exhale as you move into the stronger “heavier” end of the full range of the movement. Human growth factors get fired when applying super slow technic with variable resistance; Reflexive Firing - https://www.longdom.org/open-access...onse-asystematic-review-2157-7536-1000178.pdf is a meta-analysis study for which Dr. Jaquish is an author in the Journal of Steroids & Hormonal Science. When using the X3-bar, it enables greater employment of self-stabilization. Since we are applying maximum force on the musculoskeletal system at the top of the movement, the load to bone stress ratio is much greater than weight baring exercise without imposing potential injury.

    @Jenny S - I hope you're following the post you started...
    Grandpa John
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    DrEttinger likes this.
  15. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Hi Jenny

    I'm your age group and although its not a primary focus at the moment, keeping my bones strong is something I'm looking at. :)

    For me its about causal factors, nnemf/5G may be one, but there are others ..

    For example I was recently re-reading energy and epigenetics 4, with the references to Australia (because of the donut hole). "The solar wind has more power to cause a dehydrating effect on water in the upper atmosphere, which makes the sun's photoelectric effect act like a laser beam on their skin cells instead of normal natural spectrum of the sun's light."

    So in terms of length of time spent in the sun, as you come out of your winter into summer, your "Goldilocks exposure time" of sun may be a lot less than say Inger can do at her location. (I'm doing much better timing my high UV index exposure for vitamin D, and spending more time in the shade).

    Then there's lactate "Exercise in the heat (40C) increases muscle glycogen oxidation and reduces whole-body fat oxidation (Febbraio et al 1994), in comparison to the same exercise intensity performed at 20C. When temperature rises, serum lactate levels rise."

    "As a person's temperature rises, we see the same effect in human cells. This happens in sepsis, stress and extreme exercise. An elevated lactate is associated with increased mortality cross the board. Usually a lactate level >4 is associated with bad clinical outcomes regardless of whether it is from sepsis or not. " So then its what is the n=1 source of stress.....

    Although it doesn't count as extreme exercise, :oops: at the start of lockdown I took to doing 25 laps around the polytunnels and part of the field, about 2 miles, barefoot, every morning. As we headed for summer solstice, doing it late morning, in the heat, left me feeling worse, I've discovered if I do it earlier, in the cooler temp (but still some UV), it is a completely different ballgame.:) I would suspect that's a clue my lactate levels aren't optimal.

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/osteoporosis-aging.shtml has some quite interesting stuff and perhaps some "targeted interventions" ideas. :) My interest is in avoiding AD, so this paragraph caught my interest and sent me down the growth hormone and prolactin rabbit holes.

    "Discussions about whether a certain person's osteoporosis is "menopausal osteoporosis" or "senile osteoporosis" have neglected the possibility that osteoporosis doesn't begin in either menopause or old age, but that it is the result of life-long developmental processes that interact with all the factors that are involved in aging. The fact that the collagen content of old bone is lower than in young bone (as a percentage of bone weight) shows that the problem in osteoporosis isn't a lack of calcification, it's a deficiency of tissue renewal, parallel to sarcopenia, the decrease of muscle mass with aging. Systemically decreased tissue renewal would account for the association of bone loss with other processes such as male baldness (Morton et Al 2007) and Alzheimer's disease (Zhou et al, 2011, Duthie et al 2011). "
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    John Schumacher likes this.
  16. Have you checked out https://osteostrong.pl/ in Poland?
    or https://www.osteostrong.dk/kontakt/ in Denmark?
    or https://osteostrong.se/free-session/ in Sweden?

    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
    Jenny S likes this.
  17. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    I've had a look, but it doesn't resonate with me ... and it doesn't seem to be in the UK anyway. :) Too many possible causal factors to explore first, and it would be an expensive distraction if I should be looking at (say) high prolactin levels first. (Peat: drugs than increase prolactin were found to cause osteoporosis). For example, although there seems to be a circadian rhythm of prolactin during the night, there's other factors that can increase it chronically which might not be beneficial, particularly for post menopausal women.

    Reading elsewhere that ghrelin increases prolactin in women has me eating 3 meals a day (king, prince and pauper), rather than doing OMAD or having too narrow an eating window.

    My mother started going deaf in her 50s, long before her AD diagnosis, so the mention in the Peat article about the bones of the inner ear is also interesting. :)
    John Schumacher likes this.
  18. Jenny S

    Jenny S Gold

    thanks Sue - very interesting about.
    For example I was recently re-reading energy and epigenetics 4, with the references to Australia (because of the donut hole). "The solar wind has more power to cause a dehydrating effect on water in the upper atmosphere

    It's only been about 12c & very windy most days. Will read the Ray Peat blog thanks.
    Can't wait until we can get out of Vic. At least we're not in Melbourne.

    No 5g here, & no one living within 3 kms of us, so other than mobile phone, TV very low EMF. Off grid solar too so no dirty electricity
    John Schumacher likes this.
  19. In his book “Epi-Paleo Rx”, Dr. Jack Kruse discuss the secretion of a hormone from osteoblasts, called osteocalcin, which regulates insulin production and enhances insulin sensitivity, and increases testosterone. Osteocalcin must be carboxylated with K2 in order to active the hormone.

    With age, bone mass decreases and memory loss, anxiety, and depression become more common. Does it help, at least partly, by maintaining bones, which make osteocalcin, which in turn helps preserve memory and mood?

  20. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Osteocalcin and its effects on insulin may be an effect of maintaining osteoblasts, but I think there's a potential problem if the balance between osteoblasts and osteoclasts has already shifted to osteoporosis. Osteoblast deficit = lowered osteocalcin? Then its how do we go about restoring the balance ....

    Although its been in animal studies, from what I've read osteoporosis research is shifting to mitochondria. One example is that in ageing bone, osteocytes have been found to have swollen mitochondria, implying mitochondrial dysfunction.

    One link between bone mass decrease and memory loss etc may be that both involve poor mitochondrial calcium handling, which in the brain leads to neuronal death, ... Supplementing calcium not without risks........ :eek:
    John Schumacher likes this.

Share This Page