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Oscillating hormones?

Discussion in 'Heal Your Hormones' started by Blue30, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    ZRT labs .... get a 4x cortisol [diurnal]
  2. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    Just some other ideas of where you might look . . .

    High fructose depresses T especially in low light conditions (Winter)


    Zinc for enzymatic T production


    Green Tea for use as an aromatase inhibitor


    @JanSz has a great chart somewhere on the hormone pathways showing the aromatase link
  3. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  4. Blue30

    Blue30 New Member

    JanSz, I've attached my SpectraCell report.

    Also, would the clomid challenge not indicate an issue more with the hypothalamus than the pituitary? Because of the clomid, the pituitary receives addition GnRH, and in response, releases additional LH? Or is this not necessarily true? If you think there is a pituitary issue, I'm more than willing to speak with my doctor about an MRI; I'm beginning to run out of ideas. Also, why should fish oil and krill oil be avoided? Too much of a change in the omega 6 to omega 3 ratio?

    Da-mo, thanks for the links. I've tried cutting out fructose, adding green tea, and adding zinc, but I haven't had much success going that route. I'll check out the articles and see if there is something in there that I missed.

    Attached Files:

  5. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    More in the DHA to EPA ratio - most fish/krill oils have the ratio backwards.

    Also - DHA needs to be in the SN2 position to be taken into the cell. DHA is protected against degradation by iodine (much of which is removed from supplements). DHA from seafood (as opposed to supplements) will have all the necessary co-factors packaged up with it as well.
    Shijin13 likes this.
  6. Josh

    Josh Gold

    For me if the skin is inflamed, the guts are inflamed, the brain to some extent and the liver is overloaded. Fluctuations will be based upon the system's ability to handle inflammation which uses up hormones. Stress of all types is probably the #1 factor in inflammation for most modern people. If your methylation pathways have crashed or crash part of the time regardless of SNP's, the liver has even more trouble keeping up. Listen to Dr. Kruse's talk on Methylation and Gut Health with Dr.Tim Jackson.

  7. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    I see in the Spectracell that zinc is borderline. Could it be a problem with uptake rather than intake?
    Dietary Factors Influencing Zinc Absorption1 - http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/5/1378S.full
  8. Josh

    Josh Gold

    As I recall, Psoriasis is often Gallbladder related due to low T3. Essentially a low bile flow leads to poor handling of fats and poorly nourished skin inflamed with toxins from and overloaded liver. Your T3 is low and your rT3 is high combined with the high LDL to HDL ratio suggesting inflammation in the liver. The overall hormone levels are low suggesting what you make may be used elsewhere such as the DHEA to make IL-6 to handle inflammation in your brain among other places. Tim Jackson would wonder what the other "inflammatory drivers" may be? Parasites, Lyme's, Herpes Viruses, Mold? D levels rising from supplementation may not be good news if it is unsulfated and just moves more calcium around causing more issues. I am simply reviewing things that can be found in the blogs and on the forum.
    Lahelada and Josh (Paleo Osteo) like this.
  9. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    I see in your ZRT labs DHEAS good - so tracing it through the chart JanSz posted it seems the pathway is ok that far on the way to T. So looking downstream of that point might help . . . .
  10. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    Digging a little further, you mention both a stressful time and psoriasis like skin issues. DHEAS is good yet Testosterone is low.

    Comparing to JanSZ's chart downstream of testosterone we see DHT. Quick google seems to tie stress, psoriasis and elevated DHT together. . . .

    Could it be possible that your testosterone generation is working fine but much of it is getting converted DHT and causing the skin issues?

    Hopefully the others will know how to check for this - initially it would seem that if this is the case a 5ar inhibitor might have an effect but I think there are risks with going down that path.

    Just a bit more to give a little background . . .
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  11. Blue30

    Blue30 New Member

    Josh, thanks for the link, I'm listening to it now. Great stuff and very informative! As for as the psoriasis/T3/gall bladder issue, would that ultimately come back to a leptin issue?

    Da-mo, interesting ideas both with the zinc uptake and the conversions. I do eat a lot of nuts so the phytates could be causing an issue with absorption. I'll eliminate the nuts and see how that helps. Next time I get labs drawn, I'll see if I can check DHT, too, if JanSz thinks that would be worth doing. I've had one more recent DHEA test (about 6 weeks ago) since the ZRT lab. DHEA SULFATE, 270, 106-464 mcg/dL. The serum test was a little lower than what was reflected on the saliva test.
  12. Da-mo

    Da-mo Gold

    Interesting article on Testosterone and DHT showing how dropping T levels and increasing DHT can be protective for the prostate against BPH http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm
  13. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

  14. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Things to stay away from or risk damage to androgen/estrogen converting enzymes and receptors
    or at least measure your DHT level and do not let it drop to less than mid-range.

    propecia--5aR inhibitor
    proscar -- 5aR inhibitor
    Avodart 5aR and 5bR inhibitor
    Accutane (isotretinoin) inhibits one of the above

    TSH 1.98 mIU/L (ref 0.4-4.5)
    TT4 6.0 mcg.dL (ref 4.5-12)
    TT3 67* ng/dL (ref 76-181) ---> out of range

    both TT4 and TT3 could be higher

    To make sure that you have plenty of iodine/iodide consider using Lugol's solution on top of seaweed and seafood
    note ---- we need both forms, iodine & iodide
    Spectracel indicates sufficient selenium=78 (>74%)
    1 dropperfull/day=48mg/day=0.8cc
    Lugol's Iodine Family Pack -- 6 (2 fl. oz.) bottles

    thyroid gland holds 50mg iodine
    whole body holds 1500mg iodine

    Dr Jorge D. Flechas, MD mentions sick symporter that may prevent proper iodide transport
    he is saying that symporter can be helped but does not say how.

    The Sodium-Iodide Symporter

    The most important stimulator of symporter gene and protein expression
    is thyroid-stimulating hormone, similar to what is observed with other important
    thyroid proteins such as thyroglobulin and thyroid peroxidase.

    Enhancement of sodium/iodide symporter expression

    The sodium/iodide symporter (NIS) mediates iodide uptake in the thyroid gland

    Retinoic acid has been used to stimulate NIS expression in both thyroid and breast cancer.

    Your Spectracel indicate sufficient levels of vit A (Retinol).

    If this is proper line of research, possibly someone on this board have suggestions
    on how to raise TT4 & TT3.

    Note that you have psoriasis
    psoriasis home treatment is to paint it with lugol's

    I guess that you may have one or both
    low iodine/iodide
    slow symporter

    pantothenic acid

    You have a low Pantothenate

    My Pantothenate was originally low, it took number of Spectracel tests and 4/day
    Nutricology Pantothenic Acid, Vegicaps, 90-Count
    to barely get me over to better levels.
    Now I am trying: Pantethine
    wish me luck

    http://www.amazon.com/Allergy-Research-Nutricology-Pantothenic-capsules/dp/B000M8OMMW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1403534679&sr=8-2&keywords=pantethine nutricology
    Allergy Research (Nutricology) - Pantothenic Acid (as calcium Pantotheate), 500 mg, 90 capsules

    Pantethine is a derivative of pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) and a key constituent of coenzyme A,
    which is involved in the metabolism of amino acids, carbohydrates, and lipids.*
    Contains Pantesin®, a high quality, pharmaceutical grade brand of pantethine.
    Price: $38.21

    zinc and B12 are borderline, may want to tweak your diet and/or suplement them.


    Get from LabCorp or Mayo clinic:

    Fatty Acid Profile, Comprehensive (C8-C26), Serum

    Make sure that all of them are within +-25% from mid-range of their respective ranges.

    Pay closer attention to

    ALA, LA, EPA tend to be too high (watch out for nuts, seeds, oils, fish/krill oils)
    DHA, AA, GLA, palmitoleic acid(O7), tend to be low


    There is
    BodyBio Wellness Report
    available from:
    That is, it is from dr Patricia Kane (fatty acids guru).
    It have a different approach than Spectracell Micronutrient Analysis but
    does similar assesment.
    You have to bring your own blood test, price is for post-processing only.
    Look up the sample report:

    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  15. janSz what are your thoughts on teenage use of accutane and long term effects on hormone signalling and reception, and influence on male pattern balding
    generally the conscensus has been that MPB has been a heightened receptor response to normal circulating levels of testosterone, what if any effect would accutane have here?
    i was put on it as a teen and i think it was the source of many troubles in my late teens to mid twenties...
  16. Blue30

    Blue30 New Member

    Da-mo and JanSz, thank you much. I picked up some Lugol's this weekend, and I've been taking pantethine since the SpectraCell (only once per day, though). If you're B5 took that long to raise, I'll consider raising my daily intake as well. Thanks for the info on the thyroid; I do have consistently cold hands, so that is very likely an issue. I'll let you know if I notice any difference from the lugol's supplementation. I've ordered the additional tests as you suggested; I'll let you know when I receive my results. Thanks again for your help!
  17. Josh

    Josh Gold

    See Jack's post:




    He is not a big fan of iodine supplementation, others on the forum seem to support it.....
    rlee314 likes this.
  18. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    The Anticancer Testosterone Metabolite 3╬▓-Adiol
    Clinical Significance of 5a-Reductase Activity

    I would appreciate some discussion on above two articles.

  19. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Likely that would apply to someone who newer eat slice of bread (and the bromide that comes with it).

    Dr Jorge D. Flechas
    is of opinion that it takes 3-4 years of heavy duty Lugol's supplementation to get rid of bromides,
    I assume that after that period just seaweed would be sufficient source of iodine/iodide.


    But contrary to more enthusiastic doses previously (50mg and up), I see that in this recent videos they stick to doses used by Japanese (hedging against any law suits).
    Interesting perspective:

    thyroid holds 50mg iodine
    whole body holds 1500mg iodine

    Kristi Lambert likes this.
  20. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Do not forget to ask your doc to check for possible reason why your TT4 and TT3 are low.
    (The Sodium-Iodide Symporter ????)
    Let us know how he would go about checking that and if need be on how to support it.


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