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Organic Cation Transporter Testing/ Neurotransmitter Support

Discussion in 'Optimal Labs' started by Souldanzer, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    Just throwing this out there.... anybody else doing this or working with Dr Kalish?

    I was re-listening to the Epi-Paleo Rx webinar tonight and I was wondering about some things:

    1) BAB is designed to refill our brains with missing amino acids, it then curbs appetite. I eat plenty of protein for BAB probably rather at the higher limit than the lower most days. I still eat a lot for dinner (too much). My last Cation Transporter test came back as still deficient in serotonin and dopamine. Is that part of the reason why I eat so much? B/c my brain is trying to refill my sub-optimal NT stores?

    2) How high can I go with protein for BAB to attempt to help my brain fill up those NT stores? At what point am I just plain overeating on protein and not helping myself anymore?

    3) My last test I understand says I am now in Phase 2 with my organic cation transporters. I'm still reading up on the Hinz papers I found posted on his research site... but I get that Phase 1 means I am deficient in NTs and I am wasting them through my kidneys b/c the gates that would allow them into my brain are closed. So I pee them out instead. Phase 2 implies that the gates are open (fully??) and I am refilling my brain with NTs yet there isn't enough NTs around so I am still deficient. This is the phase my body/brain is in right now. Phase 3 is the desired phase, with the gates fully open, NTs being sufficient in the body and brain, and the body excreting any extra NTs through the kidneys.

    The part I don't understand quite yet is that I am still deficient in serotonin and dopamine, yet my NT support program only had l-dopa added, 5-htp and tyrosine I am advised to keep steady. I guess I'm a bit lost in how my serotonin will come up with l-dopa only added? Don't I need more of the other two as well to increase my serotonin? Back to my second question.... can I make up for this deficit by eating more protein for BAB? Or just plain more protein and less fat instead?

    4) I don't understand yet how exactly the organic cation transporter gates open..... what does it?

    5) How much can I heal this neuron bundle damage?
    Dr K says iirc this kind of damage is permanent. Dr Kalish says I will improve over time with epi-paleo rx and everything else Dr K recommends, HBOT will probably give me major improvements. Removing toxins from my life will give me improvements. I guess I'm just wondering what I'm in for.... I know I got a lot of damage and even Dr Kalish says I will need NT support for the rest of my life, most likely. Not the worst thing ever I guess... but the pill bottles that are supposed to be for the rest of my life are accumulating a bit on my supplement shelf :(

    I haven't really noticed anyone else doing this program but if you are out there it would be nice to hear from you :) Otherwise, this will be my note sheet for my next Dr Kalish consult so I can remember my questions.
  2. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I am very interested in the NT testing myself.

    Don't know the answer to your questions, but congrats on reaching Phase II. Nice that what you are eating/taking is actually building up your stores. I wonder if the answer to #4 is that damage to the kidneys has been repaired. In those tubules or whatever. I know with glycation damage the kidneys will leak proteins into the urine. Fix the sugar and the damage heals, and the proteins stay in the body.
    Cpt.Tired and Josh (Paleo Osteo) like this.
  3. chocolate

    chocolate Silver


    this is a lame article, but I just remember that the magnesium ups the serotonin. Magnesium decreases inflammation. Magnesium works as well as anti-depressants the majority of the time. When we have enough magnesium, we at least stop dumping protein and calcium. Unless you have weird body that responds to light signals and tells you to.

    There are other minerals for detox and the growth hormone.

    That's the way I understand it.

    About number 5... I just bet it can heal. I was reading that trauma can switch off the oxytocin receptors and cells start reproducing without them. The water seems to fix it, even in the face of stress for rats.
  4. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    I think the connection to the kidneys is more of a mis-yoked one. The message to the kidneys is wrong b/c the gates to allow NTs into the brain are closed. So the kidneys interpret that as there is enough NTs in the brain, no more needed, we need to get rid of them. I remember Dr K talking about this in the last webinar, which my brain wasn't very alert for and I relied heavily on the upload, which, unfortunately, got lost. I think it's somewhere in the Hinz papers I've been reading though. Gotta go back and look.

    Interesting from the article was that migraines and PMS are linked to not only low mg but also low serotonin. B/c I'm dealing with both.
  5. Zorica Vuletic

    Zorica Vuletic New Member

    I recall seeing somewhere (I think from Jack) in talking about cycloset..how that helps with dopamine, and as a result of targeting the dopamine, it then allowed the brain to have more resources of serotonin.

    So if dopamine (in your case them giving you only l-dopa) increases dopamine, then this spares the effort to look for extra serotonin. It's something to that effect, despite my imperfect articulation.

    It's at least good that Dr. Kalish is supportive of Dr. K's work.
  6. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    I'm going to have to read those whole threads I guess about cycloset. I'm wondering b/c serotonin comes from 5-htp and dopamine from tyrosine. So if dopamine is given directly it would spare tyrosine but not 5-htp/serotonin. But I'm not entirely read up on this stuff. Too much reading on my plate these days to keep up for my sub-optimal brain. One thing at a time..... gotta go back to the pathways that Dr Kalish explains in one of his podcasts.
  7. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    maybe my blood glucose was going higher b/c my brain was getting more deficient over the years
  8. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    How was Cycloset related to increasing dopamine and somehow there was IGF-1 and HGH involved? Prolactin surge does not happen b/c ??
  9. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    I may have this wrong - but I believe taking the .8mg cycloset in the am as soon as you - causes a direct increase of dopamine in the brain (how not sure), from what I understand, in the AM, you're supposed to get a spike of both dopamine, and cortisol to wake up. and this is how it resets your circadian cycles, while upregulating your IGF1, HGH is released both at night and in the am (I'm going off memory here - but CT7 has the nitty gritty details.) Prolactin release is directly impacted by Leptin and Melatonin - if you cortisol- DHEA- melatonin axis is off you wont make it, and if your HPA is off you won't make it. SO.... the re-setting of the circadian cycles, also helps control FBG, as well as trigger the proper hormonal responses of everything else... I'll try to go back to CT7 and re-look this... as well as my last consult....
  10. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    I think that's where I got a blank. I think when we go to bed post 4hrs last meal our insulin is low and that allows leptin into the hypothalamus which then creates the prolactin surge which increases IGF-1 which increases HGH. Where does the AM dopamine spike fit in? And melatonin? B/c I know *supplementing* melatonin can actually turn the prolactin surge off.... don't know how that works either.

    I think Cycloset might help control FBG also b/c dopamine has a factor in insulin sensitivity (see earlier post).

    CT-7 you say..... my brain is hurting today ;)
  11. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    and that is why.....?
  12. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    So it's actually the increase in *cortisol* that leads to an increase in dopamine? Cycloset increases dopamine by increasing cortisol? So if you fix the low AM cortisol somehow else, you're automatically increasing dopamine during the day?

    So how about I do something else to raise my cortisol in the AM.... stare at the sun, go for some sprints, lift some heavy things, yell at the roommate, talk to my insurance on the phone, .... ? Is that going to increase my dopamine in turn?

    How about caffeine?
  13. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    I think Jack mentioned that caffeine can depress cortisol.

    Why not hop directly in to CT. I k ow that definitely charges my adrenals. I can't do deep CT after 4pm or I'm up all night.
  14. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned

    CT makes me sleepy ;) I purposely do it at night b/c it makes me pass out 20min after. Just like a b/p :eek:

    I remember Dr K saying that caffeine can depress cortisol but it doesn't make sense to me quite yet. Why would I want it in the morning then? I don't anymore, actually but used to.
  15. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I think he said caffeine can depress cortisol in some people in the AM, and it can raise cortisol for others.
  16. Souldanzer

    Souldanzer Banned


    I'm supposed to be in phase 3 with my NTs now (not tested yet but on the amount of support Dr. Hinz/Neuroresearch calculated I need - no idea how they did that ;)). I'm still dealing with feeling hypoglycemic while actually being hyperglycemic though.
  17. Cpt.Tired

    Cpt.Tired New Member

    Thank you for that little bit of info! Very valuable!:)

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