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Omega 3 supplementation

Discussion in 'The Epi-Paleo Diet' started by Clabbergirl, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. JC2K

    JC2K New Member

    My understanding is that Flax oil converts very poorly in the human body. So I'd really be looking for more scientific evidence that a flax/sunflower oil can contribute to a balanced o3 ratio (outside drinking gallons of the stuff).
     
  2. Derwin

    Derwin New Member

    Omega 3 is good supplement for burning fat and losing weight.

    It very effective for heart health, it plays an important role in controlling cholesterol level.
     
  3. Cowboy

    Cowboy New Member

    Has anyone else tried Carlson's MedOmega 2800. Kind of a super concentrated fish oil with 2800 mg of Omega 3's per tsp. The lemon lime flavor is pretty neutral, and the cost is reasonable from Amazon ($20.00) for 100 ml.
     
  4. Cody

    Cody New Member

    ALA has to be converted by the body to DHA/EPA. And it converts very poorly. Dr. Kruse has stated as much in his blog in a couple of different places in the comments. I highly suggest you people re-read!!!



    And thanks for the Salmon oil link! Great find!
     
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    I am still trying to figure out what I think about this subject.

    Whatewer I touch leads to inconsistencies.

    Hempseed oil is supposed to have 3.8:1 ratio.

    The label on oil says 3:1

    when I put down numbers it gets even lower 2.8:1



    I keep my notes here:

    http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?20061-Dr.-Patricia-Kane



    So far my take home is:

    stay away from fish oil, krill oil, EPA, DHA (until my next fatty acid test)

    use Hempseed oil and Primrose gelcaps (GLA)



    -------

    I also know that I do not like Spectacell HS-Omega-3 Index, because the one I did have given me wrong results.



    Not sure about what to think about Genova Fatty Acid tests, I am assuming that they just measured the stuff and had no clue about importance of O6/O3. So I hope that at least their numbers are right.



    Partricia Kane spells her's favorite test, I am still not sure if I will be able to read report.

    (I hate if someone else or black box is doing the readings).







    ....
     
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    The answer to this is in having blood tests done.

    I post my FattyAcid test results, while supplementing with EPA, DHA and GLA fatty acids.



    My ALA is totally suppressed (as claimed that it would).

    My ALA/LA=121 which is absolutely away from desirable 4.





    ...

    Most of my findings on this topic are on this thread:



    http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?20061-Dr.-Patricia-Kane



    The actionable posts are this two:

    http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?20061-Dr.-Patricia-Kane&p=172806#post172806

    http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?20061-Dr.-Patricia-Kane&p=172741#post172741





    I am not able to follow all what dr Kruse is posting.

    If someone sees him posting on this topic somewhere else,

    I would appreciate if someone took time and posted note about it, with the link.

    Posting link is very important part of information.





    .
     
  7. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    JanSz, this is very interesting. The basic take home message that I get is that the O3 supplementation can/will suppress the O6 in the body, which is highly problematic. Yet it doesn't work the other way. So.... if one has been eating a SAD diet for years but cannot test O6/O3 ratios (it is not available in New Zealand where I live), what would you suggest? Perhaps supplementation with both high quality fresh fish oil AND evening primrose? Or am I missing the point entirely? If I start with an assumption that my ratio is not good (I'm talking O6/O3), isn't it OK that the O3 supplementation suppresses the O6? Or is it a case that the suppression invalidates the O6 in the body?
     
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    I have nothing much to add.

    If you do not have possibility of testing,

    just stop fish oil, krill oil, EPA, DHA.



    Possibly it is ok to use Evening Primrose oil



    One of biggest ideas is to have ALA/LA=4 per dr Kane or (2-6) per dr Kruse.



    Supplementation with fish oil, krill oil, EPA, DHA,

    supresses LA almost to nothing. 0.1 in my case

    That leaves me with ratio of 121:1

    very much NOT GOOD.



    Note;

    I am not really clear what is dr Kruse's O6/O3(2-6).



    The test that I did at Spectracel, blessed me as ok,

    so

    I know that they are talking about something else

    because

    I am far from ok by dr Kane's standard.



    Dr Kruse refered me to dr Kane for answers about fatty acids.



    =================================================



    You can get oils with 4:1 ratio,

    either directly mix made by dr Kane

    or you can make your own version using info I provided.



    ...

    ...











    ....
     
  9. healthnut

    healthnut New Member

    My 0-6 to 0-3 ratio is 2.7 to 1. I can't take a lot of fish oil being Apo E4 E4, so I use a lot of chia seed, flax seeds. I take two caps of krill per day (240mg 0-3 dialy). It improved my ratio vs taking high dose fish oil (was formerly taking 3,000mg 0-3 from F.O.). I suspect switching from ethyl ester form of fish oil to the triglyceride form made the smaller dose of omega 3 more absorbable.



    http://www.langeeyecare.com/article_fish_oil_triglycerides_vs_ethyl_esters_main.htm
     
  10. Cody

    Cody New Member

    You lucky, lucky lady. I wish my body could make O3 from sat fat!!!
     
  11. healthnut

    healthnut New Member

    Does anyone know if the FRESH Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil is tirglyceride form or EE form?
     
  12. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    JanSz, I had a look at some of Patricia Kane's work. IN a bulletin about oils and correct functioning, she quotes the following (which is from Yehuda's research): Infancy and aging are two sensitive and critical periods, where adequate EFA and PUFA bioavailability is crucial for proper functioning of the brain. In addition, linoleic and alpha-linolenic acids per se have an effect on the neuronal membrane fluidity index. They are able to decrease the cholesterol level in the neuronal membrane, which would otherwise decrease membrane fluidity, which in turn would make it difficult for the cell to carry out its

    normal functions and increase the cell’s susceptibility to injury and death. Symptoms of essential fatty acid deficiency include fatigue, dermatological problems, immune problems, weakness, gastrointestinal disorders, heart and circulatory problems, growth retardation,

    and sterility --- this list is not all-inclusive.â€Â￾

    She then goes on to summarise by saying: "For the majority, the 4:1 oil should be a staple, with the dietary addition of eggs,

    meat, and dairy for the n-6s, and fish or fish oil for the n-3s, which should fi ll in our higher EFA requirements." The 4:1 oil is the blend you mentioned, which is made from sunflower and flax.



    She seems to be quite clear that, on its own, 03 supplementation with fish oil is highly problematic, will suppress o6 in the body and lead to a lack of membrane fluidity, as well as a host of problems typically associated in mainstream with 'high fat' diets. Yet she seems to indicate that fish oil, in combination with plant oils and the right diet, is the way to go.



    Does this seem right to anyone else? Dr Kruse? Care to weigh in?
     
  13. JanSz

    JanSz Gold


    Saying Omega-6 or Omega-3 is not descriptive.



    There are many omega6 type of fatty acids.

    It all starts with "parent" omega6 that is LA



    There are many omega-3 types of fatty acids.

    It all starts wit "parent" which is ALA.







    One can make ratio, and they do that and report on test report:



    (Sum of all Omega6)/(Sum of all Omega-3)



    but dr Patricia Kane holds that good ratio is:



    LA/ALA=4



    About both of these ratios can be said that they are O6/O3 ratio.



    Which one is yours?





    //
     
  14. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold

    And so what do you make of this? One of Dr K's recommended products is EPA/DHA balance which is described as this: "EPA-DHA Balance contains pharmaceutical grade; ultra-purified and highly concentrated omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil.EPA-DHA Balance offers synergistic benefits from both important omega-3 fatty acids in a 2:1 ratio.*EPA-DHA BalancePurified by molecular distillation." There is no mention of LA or ALA in that, so no 'parent' oils (and no Omega 6 at all). Why the recommendation? Doesn't this conflict with what Dr Kane is saying? I feel like I'm missing something!!!
     
  15. JanSz

    JanSz Gold






    When I presented my Fatty Acid Analysis, dr Kruse was kind to reply, and referred me to dr Patricia Kane for answer.

    I got my answer here:

    http://www.bodybio.com/BodyBio/docs/BodyBioBulletin-4to1Oil.pdf

    and made my notes here:

    http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?20061-Dr.-Patricia-Kane





    Thas is how this all started.

    Thas is what I got reading dr Kane's web site.



    I hope that one day dr Kruse will help us with this situation.



    To me, the least clear is when dr Kruse says O6/O3 ratio. I do not know what he means.

    It can mean at least two different combinations, probably more.




    ==================================================================

    The whole discussion on oils is about this type of situations and advertising EPA & DHA (out of context).

    You are not missing anything, this topic should be better addressed by dr Kruse.



    It is clear to me that even laboratories (Genova Diagnostics and Spectracell) do not share (or do not know about) this concern.

    I did my blood analysis there, within 2 weeks span. Individual Fatty Acids results were about the same.

    Spectracell had given me outright pass on my results.

    They just said HS Index=8.8% desirable is 8% you are good to go.



    Genova have given me much more detailed report.

    http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5059/image163x.jpg

    They were concerned about all kind of individual levels and ratios.

    But they do not have upper cut off levels for any individual Omega3 component.

    So, when I loaded up on EPA & DHA and consequently suppressed LA and AA that was not clearly seen as bad input vs bad output.

    I really like Genova's way of reporting, very visually friendly.

    If I could change there something, I would add

    upper ranges for EPA & DHA

    and

    ALA/LA ratio.





    I will send PM to dr Kruse.

    Hopefully he will say something.



    To find dr Kruse's post:

    http://forum.jackkruse.com/member.php?353-Jack-Kruse



    ........
     
  16. healthnut

    healthnut New Member




    This is my first attempt at downloading a file, hopefully it will work....Here is my last F.A. evaluation through Genova Labs NutrEval:




    [​IMG]
     
  17. healthnut

    healthnut New Member

    Not sure if that download was readable. Here are the numbers:



    Omega 3 Fatty Acids:

    ALA- 0.16 ref > 0.09

    EPA- 1.36 ref > .16

    DPA- 2.37 ref > 1.14

    DHA- 7.5 ref > 2.1

    %Omega 3's- 11.4 ref> 3.8



    Omega 9 fatty acids:

    Oleic-9 ref 10-13

    Nervonic 2.9 ref 2.1-3.5

    %Omega 9's-12.4 ref 13.3-16.6



    Saturated Fatty Acids
    :

    Palmitic-23 ref 18-23

    Stearic-18 ref 14-17

    Arachidic- .19 ref .22-.35

    Behenic- .92 ref .92-1.68

    Tricosanoic- .23
    ref .12-.18

    Lignoceric- 2.8
    ref 2.1-3.8

    Pentadecanoic- .10
    ref .07-.15

    Margaric- .22
    ref .22-.37

    %Saturated Fat-46
    ref 39.8-43.6



    Omega 6 Fatty Acids:


    Linoleic- 10.2
    ref 10.5-16.9

    GLA- 0.7
    ref .03-.13

    DGLA- 1.23
    ref >1.19

    Arachidonic-16
    ref 15-21

    Docosatetraenoic- 1.26
    ref .1.5-4.2

    Eicosadienoic- .13
    ref
     
  18. PaleoDentist

    PaleoDentist New Member

    I just ordered Carlson Labs Super Omega-3 Gems, 1000mg. I hope they are soy free.
     
  19. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    She is correct........and I fully agree with her. Read my blog during the AHS last August.......I say it clearly in it. But nobody listened because in the Paleo Solution they had a fish oil calculator that was off the chain and I did not have the cred then that the book did.
     
  20. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

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