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Omega-3 fatty acids (DHA, EPA, and ALA) are not essential???

Discussion in 'The Epi-Paleo Diet' started by Johan Lindstrøm, Jan 9, 2022.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I would say that the last thing this person (in the picture below) is missing is seafood.
    But in this world one can never be sure.
    But these days I am thinking that if we would replace "eat seafood"
    change it to
    "drink seawater"
    we may get somewhere.
    Not a 100% replacement but something like:
    (Mix 3 or 4 parts of drinkable water with one part of seawater)

    Think of all these (known and unknown) micronutrients
    that created life on Earth, sitting in the seawater.
    Possibly even more important maybe their relationship and proportions. That may make the water structuring in number of ways, not just H2O or H3O. This is what we may be missing when drinking industrially processed waters.

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    @Johan Lindstrøm
    @ND Hauf

    This is not the first about DHA, AA topic, discussed here.
    Most of the time it ends nowhere.

    When this board was freshly opened, I was encouraging people to post their fatty acids analysis. Quite a few did.
    They are still somewhere (hopefully).
    To me at least, we do not have a shortage of DHA.

    I suggest that the two of you encourage people to post their (unadulterated) fatty acids analysis.
    That possibly will make clearer where we have problems.
    And that is where energy should be spent on finding solutions.

    The other is likely acidity (ph).

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
    Johan Lindstrøm likes this.
  3. ND Hauf

    ND Hauf Pleb

    This is the only test I've ever done relative to Omega-3s. Not too sure if it's relevant to the questions at hand? Lots of ratio's that if I'm understanding correctly might not matter.

    omega1.jpg omega2.jpg omega3.jpg omega4.jpg
  4. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    @ND Hauf
    Very good, but still as expected,
    You have somewhat too much of DHA.
    You could be having more of AA (it is within expected good values but could be better).
    Remember, Omega3 is stronger than Omega6, so that excess of DHA pushes AA down.
    I copied the spreadsheet from what dr Patricia Kane had on her website (bodybio.com)
    The full laboratory range is 100% status.
    It is divided into 6 ranges.
    The plus-minus of less than 25% are the desirable values.

    The more DHA (and EPA) one has, the less AA, inflammation is going haywire.
    As usual, we need everything
    in just the right amount.

    Going by dr Boros, most of the energy is created in mitochondria, by creating matrix water (over 7000 liters a day when resting) (Then melanin breaks the water) (but sometimes it actually creates water).
    The volume of created water more closely resembles the volume of blood going thru the heart.
    So, all goes in circles, but
    most of the new needed hydrogen for that matrix water comes from fats, (oxygen from breath).
    Most fats used for that process are oleic (and palmitoleic acids).
    Your oleic and palmitoleic acids are low.

    The energy that we use to run our bodies is not even close to the (2500-3000) calories we eat as food and a few more that we get from the equatorial sun at noon. All that is beyond second digits after the coma when one considers the fuel cell that at ease use 800kg hydrogen a day to produce that much


    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
    ND Hauf likes this.
  6. As we know oleic and palmitoleic acids are fragile molecules.

    The current method of oil extraction from seeds and grains - https://openprairie.sdstate.edu/etd/3658/

    Use of petroleum-based solvents for extraction of oilseeds is still a common practice, despite the potential fire hazard and the toxic water pollution. The rising awareness of chemical activities created immense need for sustainable development schemes and strategies that should address the environmental impact without compromising the yield.​

    There is however a search for better extraction methods

    Evaluating antioxidant capacity of acid lime (AL) and sweet orange (SO) seed oils while using DMSO as a potential solvent using ultrasound as the extraction methodology.
    Even though the grain & grass-seed (flax, sesame) industry is highly funding "health" benefits of these extracted oils, the current model of extraction is really only good for the petroleum industry seeking different oil viscosity characteristics.

    Please be aware of the solvent extract method used in the production of oleic and palmitoleic acid molecules, including how they are stored, shelf "life", etc.

    I am not saying they are "bad" for you. I just believe most common methods of these extracts may not be "healthy" for humans.
    ND Hauf and Johan Lindstrøm like this.
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Eat animals not pills.

    oleic and palmitoleic acids

    oleic acid
    It is abundantly present in many animal fats, constituting 37 to 56% of chicken and turkey fat, and 44 to 47% of lard.

    Oleic acid is the most abundant fatty acid in human adipose tissue,[14] and second in abundance in human tissues overall, following palmitic acid.

    palmitoleic acid
    breast milk, animal fats

    eggs & (fatty) bacon or salo.



    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
  8. With reference to the origin of this thread

    This is the supplement seller, Matt:

    His references and "mentors":
    Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

    This is really: when half a truth leads to a full lie, I think :)

    .... and his blogs are really thin for my liking
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
    John Schumacher, ND Hauf and JanSz like this.
  9. To gather my thoughts a little: I'm now wondering why old people might end up accumulating DHA in their brains? What is the quality of this DHA? Why is not too much DHA broken down? Can we break down DHA into more useful ingredients? Is there a difference in the sensible intake of DHA for children, adolescents, adults and the elderly in the population? I probably need to read a lot more ... first out: Brain Gut 4: What was Homo’s Solution? for xx time...
    ND Hauf and JanSz like this.
  10. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    we need everything in just the right amounts.
    Speaking of just one item, DHA.
    If you get too much of it, that is also bad.
    From what I know, excess of DHA pushes down AA.
    We live in the world full of inflammation.
    Inflammation is related more to AA than DHA is.

    Problem is, DHA (omega3) is on the headlines now.

    There is someplace within bodybio.com a pdf file,
    where Ed, Patricia's Kane husband cries about that situation.

    I am heart broken, finding this:
    frozen out of business (I am reading this as Patricia is old and penniless)
    Fundraiser by Patricia Kane : Ed and Patricia Kane Research and Legacy Fund (gofundme.com)

    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
    Johan Lindstrøm likes this.
  11. Takk :)

    This film is used as a kind of an challenge of our beliefs in a group on FB. My first reaction after watching the video was the complete rejection of this person "Matt" and his preaching. And this is why we have to conduct our own research. And now I have started a new journey into lipids. I am therefore grateful to have ended up in this situation. It is important to challenge our own understanding. Truth be told, the depth of Jack's writings is extremely demanding. I'm not a doctor and have a lot to catch up on. For me, reading the books Jack recommends is not enough. I need basic knowledge. However, I have been quite obsessed with fat sources for over 10 years. It all started with an interview on Super Humand Radio in the years 2012/2013, with Professor Glen D. Lawrence. I bought his book "Fats of Life". The book was incredibly challenging for me at the time, but I understood the most fundamental thing about fat. After this awakening, I have always eaten enough saturated fat. Proper dosing is key, more is not always better, and the dose can make the toxsin. There are many bodybuilders who think more is better ... and this is a bad belief when it comes to fat-soluble vitamins (steroids and hypertrophy protocols).

    But it was only after I started traveling into Jack's world that I understood that food should be food and not elements of food. When I started following Jack on FB in 2018 or 2017, I understood zero. What he wrote appeared to be something from an unknown world. It was only after an interview in a podcast I had followed for a few years, that I turned 180 degrees and managed to put together the puzzle pieces from my search for optimal health. A hunt that had been going on for over 10 years. I had always followed one person at a time, participated in their exercise programs, diet programs and discussion forums, and constantly found new experts when the time was right. And December 2018 a new master appeared. However, this time the information was completely overwhelming. Complete chaos in my head of information !! And my head has hurt ever since. :)
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    John Schumacher likes this.
  12. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    I think the difference is between when a human is actively growing and developing a brain, and when does the intake need to reflect the need for maintenance and repair. Then it may become how much repair is needed .... I think that will depend on n=1 and the environment someone lives in or allows. When I started I ate a lot of seafood, but I don't eat it daily any more, maybe 4 times a week max.

    The thought experiment for me is that if I imagine that at every meal I was to eat seafood, and nothing else, how long would it take before I was screaming for something other than seafood ....? Quicker now than when I first started ....:) Fish oil supplements probably bypass that signal I think.
  13. Hey, yes we have to listen to our body. Or is it nature that speaks to us? What Jack writes here has something to do with age, doesn't it? We acquire dysfunction as we age, and then a good thing can become a less good thing? source https://www.forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/do-you-prescribe-oral-melatonin.17286/#post-189139

    John Schumacher and ND Hauf like this.
  14. Sue-UK

    Sue-UK New Member

    Sprecher's shunt could be a reason why we need less intake when we are more connected to nature, and could be epigenetically upregulated in cultures who live inland in line with nature who have little or no access to seafood? In animals perhaps it ties in with seasonal breeding signals? :confused:
    John Schumacher likes this.
  15. There is something about the amount of polyunsaturated fats and latitude, climate, and temperature.
    source; book "The Fats of Life" 2010, page 6.

    John Schumacher likes this.
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Understanding the process is a Holy Grail.
    2022 years are already spent looking for it.
    In the meantime
    when I see that a very sick person has excesses of DHA (and not shortage)
    or even people that are not sick have (slight) excesses of DHA
    we have to raise DHA on the pedestal and have derogatory views about food
    there are (likely less than ten) minerals screaming to be taken care of,
    and when talking about lipids, AA and oleic acid seem to demand more time than DHA.
    Big Pharma and Healt Care know exactly about this less than ten minerals and micronutrients.
    They are their profit centers.
    Everything in our bodies is good (at the right amounts).
    That includes inflammation.
    Thank you @ND Hauf for posting your Fatty acids analysis.
    anybody else?

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
    Johan Lindstrøm likes this.
  17. @JanSz I have never done a Fatty acids analysis :)
  18. Linz

    Linz Gold


    I think context is everything. Eskimos in the cold and dark need far more DHA and the fish available for them are mostly oily fish with a high DHA content. These people use their uncoupling proteins to generate heat.

    Perhaps the people accumulating excess are living in artificial warm, over lit environments, consuming DHA with the wrong conformation, or they have a tropical heritage and so their uncoupling proteins are not adapted for high consumption of oily fish species.

    Also the structure of the DHA is important. Seafood provides DHA in SN-2 position (planar structure) but supplements don't and the supplements don't contain Se, Iodine etc. I just skimmed a little of the film you linked but I think the minerals in the seafood are critical to keeping the DHA in a useful form and all are needed as nature provides.

    DHA breaks down to form anti-inflammatory compounds - resolvins and protectins - which offer protection from unbalanced blue light in the eye. So the DHA that would have been conserved in the past is now being broken down rapidly and used to protect us.



    I hope this makes some sense.
  19. It did, thanks.

    A friend of mine constantly tells his members that where you live matters.
    ND Hauf likes this.

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