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Need help figuring out my Omega 3 labs

Discussion in 'Optimal Labs' started by kyrakitty, Jul 13, 2014.

  1. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member

    I eat seafood for breakfast and lunch everyday. For diner I eat seafood 4 nights a week and the other nights I have grass finished beef, lamb, pork or liver. Below are my omega 3 from my labs. There isn't one listed that tells me my ratio.

    QUESTION 1: So based on the numbers below would my ratio be 1:0.76?
    QUESTION 2: What does my ratio mean?
    QUESTION 3: If I have calculated the right ratio...it is not 4:1....How do I fix this?
    QUESTION 4: If I am calculating the ratio wrong and it is not 1:0.76 can someone help me figure out what my ratio is?
    • HS Omega 3 = 18.4 (optimal ref range = > 8)
    • Total omega 3 = 18.4 (optimal ref range = 0.1 - 14.1)
    ALA .2 (optimal ref range .1 - .4)
    DPA 4.1 (optimal ref range .6 - 4.1)
    EPA 5.6 (optimal ref range .1 - 2.5)
    DHA 8.5 (optimal ref range .1 - 8.4)​
    • Omega 6 total 24.2 (optimal ref range = 28.6 - 44.5)
    AA 12.4 (optimal ref range 10.5 - 23.3)
    LA 9.7 (optimal ref range 4.6 - 21.3)​
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

     
    kyrakitty likes this.
  3. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member

    Thank you for your notes below in RED
    Maybe someone else can chime in on question #4

    What to do about the EPA being to high and the AA being too low? Any ideas....

    =================

    I eat seafood for breakfast and lunch everyday. For diner I eat seafood 4 nights a week and the other nights I have grass finished beef, lamb, pork or liver. Below are my omega 3 from my labs. There isn't one listed that tells me my ratio.

    QUESTION 1: So based on the numbers below would my ratio be 1:0.76?
    QUESTION 2: What does my ratio mean?
    QUESTION 3: If I have calculated the right ratio...it is not 4:1....How do I fix this?
    QUESTION 4: If I am calculating the ratio wrong and it is not 1:0.76 can someone help me figure out what my ratio is? ---- I am getting old waiting years for someone to explain this in detail.
    • HS Omega 3 = 18.4 (optimal ref range = > 8)
    • Total omega 3 = 18.4 (optimal ref range = 0.1 - 14.1)
    ALA .2 (optimal ref range .1 - .4)
    DPA 4.1 (optimal ref range .6 - 4.1)
    EPA 5.6 (optimal ref range .1 - 2.5)=====over 2x too much
    DHA 8.5 (optimal ref range .1 - 8.4) OK​
    • Omega 6 total 24.2 (optimal ref range = 28.6 - 44.5)
    AA 12.4 (optimal ref range 10.5 - 23.3)---- should be 2x of what it is now, but it cant be because EPA is too high
    LA 9.7 (optimal ref range 4.6 - 21.3)​
     
  4. HoneyChild

    HoneyChild Gold

    I think most people are looking at the aa to epa ratio, which would make yours 2.2, apparently it shouldn't be less that 1.5.

    Have you had other tests done like hs-crp and vit D?
     
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    First,
    stop eating Fish oils and Krill oils

    2nd,
    and anything that have EPA somewhere, likely not even listed or listed but well hidden

    3rd,
    above helps, but take long time to clear EPA, after 2 years mine is still high,
    so I am all ears looking for better answer.


    ///
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  6. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member

    I am soo confused by this ratio of optimal being 4:1. Gonna post a more direct question in ask jack. Thanks for your help HoneyChild it did give me a start in the right direction.
     
  7. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member


    Hi JanSz

    I do not take any fish oil supplements I only get my omega 3's from seafood now but back in Nov, Dec, Jan. I did take A LOT of very high amounts of fish oils thanks to the sloppy and dangerous work of Dr. Perlmutter and Alberto Villoldo through their book called power up your brain. They advocate HUGE doses like 4 grams. A couple of months of doing that and I completely crashed my health plumeted. I stopped these high doses in Jan sometime. Maybe that is what caused my issue with my omega 3 labs thank god I stopped all fish oil supplements in Jan and replaced it with real seafood....

    Right now I am eating sardines daily one can of Wild Planet sardines contains 313 mg EPA and 688 mg DHA Omega 3 and is an ample source of Vitamin B12, Vitamin D and selenium. If I stop eating these then I lose out on the DHA. What do you think? Should I be eating more Omega 6's (peanut butter) and do labs every 3 months to monitor my ratio?

    All my other supplements contain no omegas I checked...

    I found this on Wiki:

    Brain
    Arachidonic acid is one of the most abundant fatty acids in the brain, and is present in similar quantities to docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). The two account for approximately 20% of its fatty acid content.[11]Like DHA, neurological health is reliant upon sufficient levels of arachidonic acid. Among other things, arachidonic acid helps to maintain hippocampal cell membrane fluidity.[12] It also helps protect the brain from oxidative stress by activating peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma.[13] ARA also activates syntaxin-3 (STX-3), a protein involved in the growth and repair of neurons.[14]

    Arachidonic acid is also involved in early neurological development. In one study funded by the U.S. National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, infants (18 months) given supplemental arachidonic acid for 17 weeks demonstrated significant improvements in intelligence, as measured by the Mental Development Index.[15] This effect is further enhanced by the simultaneous supplementation of ARA with DHA.

    In adults, the disturbed metabolism of ARA contributes to neurological disorders such as Alzheimer's disease and Bipolar disorder.[16] This involves significant alterations in the conversion of arachidonic acid to other bioactive molecules (overexpression or disturbances in the ARA enzyme cascade).
     
  8. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I thought it was total O6: total O3 ratio. So 24.2:18.4 which is 1.31:1. But I have learned to rely more on HoneyChild and JanSz for these details.
    Regardless of the O6:O3 in the blood, Jack said it can take years to get your tissue levels of the fats to normalize.

    Jack doesn't recommend eating peanut butter, or any legume. But most tree nuts are good.
     
    sjoshua likes this.
  9. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Go to LabCorp (or Mayo Clinic) and do this test, that will be a baseline:

    Fatty Acid Profile, Comprehensive (C8-C26), Serum
    Post results.


    /
    ///
     
  10. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member

    I have a ton of labs. I am open to more but before I get anymore I first want to understand the labs I already have.

    I really appreciate you and how much time you take to share your knowledge, you seem to have a pretty good grasp of the overall data here and can speak the lingo. I look forward to the day when I reach a similar place.

    What I find frustrating is that for me it is a hard question which is... How is an omega 3 ratio made from my current labs?

    It is really disappointing that this question cannot be answered by anyone in this community. You even said it yourself:

    "I am getting old waiting years for someone to explain this in detail"

    Really? Not one person here knows this. Perhaps it is a hard question for everyone and not just me.
     
  11. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    Hi Kyra…from a very brief google excursion what I read is that you take your total 6 and total 3….from whole blood…not serum.
    So…24.2 divided by 18.4 which = 1.31. This is what Nonchalant has in her post…that is your ratio. It does sound like your super high doses earlier in the year have resulted in too much omega 3 that your body couldn't use….

    I don't think the ratio is very complicated, but I do think the findings are a puzzle. You need proper DHA from seafood and you need to get your omega 6 increased as well…are you eating lots of good meats too?

    Here are two articles that popped up in my search, second one has some interesting things to say about immune system and fighting virus/infections...

    http://www.anticancerbook.com/post/...omega3-fatty-acids-and-how-to-improve-it.html

    http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archi...atty-acids-could-lead-negative-health-effects
     
  12. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member

    At the dentists I will read the articles when I get home.

    The problem with the number 1.31 is that it isn't a ratio.

    A ratio is expressed like this 4:1

    Which means 4 to 1

    So what isn't clear to me is this. The optimal omega 3 ratio is said to be 4:1 or 4 to 1.

    Can someone explain why the optimal ratio say 4:1 (two numbers, one on each side of the colon) but mine is one number only. Where is the second number to make my omega 3 ratio? I am very confused.
     
  13. sjoshua

    sjoshua New Member

    your ratio is: 24.2:18.4 which means:
    24.2 divided by 18.4 = 1.31

    This is essentially a reduction exercise, in the same way that people don't say "I have 12/3 apples" ... They'd say " I have 4 apples". The goal here would be to reduce the fraction as far as possible to make it easier to contemplate. Obviously whole numbers are easier, but in cases like the ratio we are calculating they are only coincidental at best.

    In the 4:1 ratio example:
    4 divided by 1 = 4

    So, If you wanted to represent your calculated number as a ratio, it would be 1.31:1
     
    kyrakitty likes this.
  14. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    Thanks sjoshua, I was just trying to explain that too in another post…you said it much more clearly.

    The difficulty that you might be having Kyra is that your two values are very close together, so in terms of your omegas the 3s and 6s are almost the same instead of the 6s being four times higher. Hope this helps
     
    kyrakitty likes this.
  15. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member

    No I was clear the numbers were low but I wanted someone to confirm I was doing the math right. I had calculated the ratio a day or 2 ago and asked if I did the math right but no one confirmed I had done the calculations right.

    I read the articles... Good ones thank you. I will save these.
     
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    4:1 is easy to explain.
    There should be 4 parts of Omega6 for each part of Omega3.

    That is where explanations ends and guessing begins.
    That even includes explanations that I got from dr Patricia Kane website.
    bodybio.com

    I try to follow dr Kane when going into more details on fatty acids.
    1. she is good, I have seen her work on and off for number of years.
    2. I appreciate her even more when dr Kruse referred me to her after some of my questions.

    Dr Kruse emphasizes DHA.
    Dr Kane looks at all analyzed fatty acids, she prefers testing at Kennedy Krieger Institute.
    From what I can gather, she prefer each fat to be at its mid range.
    When Fatty Acids are tested there, the report lists results.
    In results I can't locate units but there is desired laboratory range for each given item.
    I mention that because other labs give variety of units and ranges and about everyone look different.

    Dr Kane takes report from Krieger and post process it so it looks similar to this:

    [​IMG]

    She breaks each range into four parts.
    Mid range is 0 (zero), ideal good point (my conclusion)
    +-25% is considered desirable
    more than 25% requires correction
    there may also be some that needs to be burned out outright

    That list contains all analyzed fatty acids.
    Our concern is about O6 and O3 category, but there are other.

    Over the years I noted that desirable ranges on lab reports vary, however slightly.
    At one point I did calculations.
    Assumed that each fatty acid is at exactly at mid range.
    I got

    Total Omega3 = 15.61
    Total Omega6 = 44.33
    Total O6/Total O3 = 2.8
    AA/DHT = 3.7

    LA/ALA = 1

    ==================
    ==================

    As of now, I have not tested my fatty acids at Krieger, I did that at Genova Diagnostics and Mayo Clinic (thru LabCorp).

    I did similar study using my Mayo Clinics data, and I got:
    Total Omega3 = 402.00
    Total Omega6 = 4785.00
    Total O6/Total O3 = 11.9
    AA/DHT = 7.2

    LA/ALA = 34

    =============================
    =============================


    As you may realize it is still as clear as in the beginning, that is most questions reminds open.
    But when one looks for number 4, the closest is:
    AA/DHT = 3.7 when done at Krieger's.


    =============================
    =============================
    Here is more on 4:1 ratio, possibly someone will get to the bottom of it.

    4:1 Oil --- The Right Stuff
    http://www.bodybio.com/BodyBio/docs/BodyBioBulletin-4to1Oil.pdf

    The Breakthrough 4:1 Fatty Acid Ratio
    http://www.bodybio.com/BodyBio/docs/Remarkable-FattyAcid.pdf

    TheInsideStoryofOmega3FattyAcids
    http://www.bodybio.com/BodyBio/docs/BodyBioBulletin-TheInsideStoryofOmega3FattyAcids.pdf

    =========================================

    When using Total O6/Total O3 number of problems arise.
    All fatty acids have equal value.
    Can't get enough DHA, get EPA instead. .
    Same with AA.
    I think that logic got the oil industry going.

    /
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
    kyrakitty likes this.
  17. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member

    Sjoshua, thank you very much for responding with a detailed explanation of the calculations that is exactly what I was looking for and how I was crunching them but wanted someone to confirm I was doing it right. So my ratio can also be shown as:

    1.32 : 0.79 or more simply put 1:1

    HonyChild seemed to indicate that the omega3 ratio numbers to crunch should be the:
    • Omega 6 AA to omega 3 EPA
    versus the
    • total omega 6 to total omega 3
    If I use the numbers HoneyChild suggests then the numbers for my ratio are as follows:

    2.2 : 0.45..... or more simply put 2:0

    QUESTION: sjoshua which do you think are the right numbers to actually use to calculate the correct omega 3 ratio... is it (total omega 6 to total omega 3) or (omega 6 AA to omega 3 EPA)?
    • Total omega 3 = 18.4 (optimal ref range = 0.1 - 14.1)
    ALA .2 (optimal ref range .1 - .4)
    DPA 4.1 (optimal ref range .6 - 4.1)
    EPA 5.6 (optimal ref range .1 - 2.5)
    DHA 8.5 (optimal ref range .1 - 8.4)​
    • Omega 6 total 24.2 (optimal ref range = 28.6 - 44.5)
    AA 12.4 (optimal ref range 10.5 - 23.3)
    LA 9.7 (optimal ref range 4.6 - 21.3)​
     
  18. sjoshua

    sjoshua New Member

    I dunno where you are getting the .79 number from, but if you follow the logic in my post, I was calculating your total O6:O3 ratio. It is 1.31:1

    This is an independent calculation that is analyzing a couple of the individual types of O6/O3 fats in a manner that is comparing what I understand to be the antagonists. I would not rely on my understanding though as I have not researched these myself in depth, only picked up pieces as I run into them. I'm an accountant, I'm trying to help you with the math part :)

    Your math is still off here. You should only be dividing the two numbers once, as follows:

    AA:EPA = 12.4:5.6 = 12.4/5.6 = 2.2, or in the terms you are familiar with, 2.2:1 ratio.

    There is no second calculation of 5.6/12.4. Consider that this would be the OPPOSITE ratio, EPA:AA, which we aren't trying to calculate.

    'Correct' ratio is determinant on what you are trying to decipher... I believe they are both useful pieces of information, but neither are more or less correct than the other...

    The '4:1' O6:O3 ratio target is based on total O6:O3 in my understanding. Your current O6:O3 ratio is 1.31:1, which tells me you require more O6 per unit of O3.

    As I said above, I believe AA:EPA are antagonists... meaning higher levels of AA cannot be achieved if you have higher levels of EPA. This is what JanSz was saying in his first post, and his second listed his recommends for helping turn his around:

     
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  19. kyrakitty

    kyrakitty New Member


    Ooo I will dig into the above tomorrow I don't have time tonight thank You so much!!!!

    Thank you too! I will dig in tomorrow no time tonight.

    Sooooo Very grateful for everyone's help to understand more about omega 3 labs. I was getting so frustrated but no longer.
     
  20. Jude

    Jude Gold

    Great thread....very interesting read ...thanks to JanSz and sjoshua and...
    ...................Kyra for persisting!:).....
    ...think our Josh Paleo maybe the man to help us aussies with this...just saying!
     
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