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Natural labor and vaginal delivery activates UPC2, C-Sections don't.

Discussion in 'Optimal Kids' started by Shijin13, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0042911



    Pretty interesting article.



    Dd was delivered vaginally (after a natural labor - not induced)



    Ds was delivered via C-section (after a natural labor - not induced, but with maternal distress)



    My question is UPC2 activated during labor? or is it activated during the transition through the birth canal?

    If its activated by labor - would there be a difference in UPC2 in a baby born vaginally vs one via C-section after natural labor (due to complications)?



    If transition through the birth canal is the activator of UPC2 - then activation of the hippocampus for optimal function isn't fully activated - given my own history (C-section after natural labor due to fetal distress) - I'm guessing the UPC2 is activated via transition... might just explain what started the cascade in me - which means that for dd who was vaginally delivered- even though she physically couldn't nurse and got breast milk (expressed) - she's ahead of the game; where ds - who was a C-section after natural labor and maternal distress, and is still nursing is behind the power curve b/c his hippocampus isn't fully turned on....
     
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    The Quilt and the Oprah blog are coming to fruition.......right before our eyes.
     
  3. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    Pretty Awesome....that suddenly after more than a year of detractors - everything you've got here is being validated by studies, and practical real world n=1
     
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    OXYTOCIN!!!!! UCP2 Any of you girls see another link based upon our consults?
     
  5. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    So question. Is it the Labor and natural methods that trigger the Upc2? Or is it transition/vaginal delivery that triggers it? As well as the skin-to-skin contact and the baby breast crawling to the breasts to nurse.



    I know the birth canal squeezes all the placental fluid out of their lungs & vaginally delivered babies don't have as big of weight drop. Where as w/C-Sect babies that doesn't happen & they trend toward inflated birth weights from not only the placental fluid, but from the epidural, pitocin and iv fluids & a trend toward a drop of at least 10% of birth weight.



    This is all so fascinating how it all ties together.
     
  6. C section babies also lack the benefit of bacterial colonization from mom's vagina.
     
  7. TribalSpice

    TribalSpice New Member

    There are massive differences between babies born via spontaneous vaginal birth and removed in surgery. From gut colonization from the mothers vagina and anus (OA babies come out facing mums butt for a reason that is not just the shape of the pelvis) to compression of skull, chest etc. and all that goes with that but also the composition of breast milk is different. On day 3 there is 1/3 of the levels of beta endorphin compared to VB.
     
  8. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver


    TribalSpice, thanks for coming along. This is very interesting.
     
  9. So I'm guessing anyone here is down with real birth vs c-section. . . the real pearls here are what can we do when it doesn't work out?



    My son is 6 now, so it may be too late for me. . . but perhaps I can help others.



    Sometimes you get a C-section, then knowing all this - what to do? Following that, when things go the way of C-section, Breast feeding is sometimes not happening either. Assuming one can't breastfeed, what's the next best option?



    I think we are preachin to the choir here on optimizing the birth thing. . .but lets use this info to figure out how best to handle when things don't work out?
     
  10. bigknitwit

    bigknitwit Silver

    I wonder for myself - I was a c-section baby who was breastfed. Maybe that's why I have low levels of bifidus bacteria showing up in me now . Doesn't bifidus normally colonize the colon? And I think exclusively breastfed babies have predominantly bifidus bacteria in their guts until they start eating solids. I wonder if it's the same for c-section babies versus vaginal babies. So how do we get the bifidus that we missed out on during delivery (I assume) into our colons where it belongs? Here we go again back to fecal transplants I suppose.



    Now how about pondering group B strep. I was positive for it for 2 of my babies, and declined the iv antibiotics both times. I knew my deliveries in the past had been pretty straight forward affairs and couldn't imagine adding in the antibiotics. What is the likely outcome for babies born to this scenario, other than crazy amounts of yeast?
     
  11. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest


    I attempted natural drug free birth w/both kids. Wasn't successful w/either dd was a vaginal delivery but she was unable to nurse so I pumped for 14 mths for her. Ds natural labor that ended up in CSec b/c my blood pressure got too high ds nursed w/30 min of delivery and hasn't stopped yet



    As for optionsif you can't bf milk share via human milk 4 human babies is a great option if you can't make milk I donated me xtra milk from ds to a woman w/aoGT she got milk for her son all over the eastern seaboard from 15 different women She's going to do the same thing for her next baby. I wish it had been around for dd b/c we would have supplemented w/other moms milk instead of supplementing w/formula when I no longer made enough to keep up w/dd
     
  12. KiwiLauren

    KiwiLauren Gold


    Well this is too late for those of us whose children are born, but I have a friend who is an OB and believes in natural birth but works almost exclusively in the OR because she believes there is a LOT that can be done to support a mother and baby when they've had a C-section. One of the things she says is really important is to NOT wash the baby in any way, especially teh baby's hands. They have amniotic fluid on them and baby will lick them and use that to 'find' the mother (and the mother's breast)... she talks about how everything the baby is covered with helps the baby recover the normal process. So she'll take a C-section baby and place that baby down at the base of the mother's body and let the baby rest her/his head on mum's lower abdomen and then take it from there.



    I guess what I've learned from her is sort of what we're learning here... if we missed the window, how do we recreate it as close to nature as possible? So if you're not breastfeeding, you can still feed your baby topless and the baby naked... this activates the oxytocin, too. Mimic and follow nature whenever possible. Don't throw in the towel when things don't go as planned.
     
  13. TribalSpice

    TribalSpice New Member

    First off, prevention is always the best way to deal with problems. A woman will birth without complications 95% of the time with:

    *good preconception health (exactly the sort of stuff I have been reading here) and

    *quality prenatal care and by this I don't mean testing for all the things that could be wrong, but watching body signals and making adjustments as needed. Looking at chemical (nutrition, toxins, hormones), Structural (mobility, position of baby, flexibility of the pelvis) and emotional (relationships, fears, etc.)



    But **** does happen, so if you are being wheeled of for a c/s swab your vagina, perineum and anus then rub it in your nipples and breasts ( I find this less gross than a mackerel head smoothie). Do as much skin to skin with your baby as possible, wear your baby, cosleep (within arms reach)



    If you cannot breastfeed (wow, awesome effort pumping for 14 months, that is a lot of hard work and dedication) as mentioned HM4HB is worldwide and growing all the time. Where I am we have a virtual village where there are a couple of babies feed by other mums, sometimes from the breast sometimes with donations and lactaids. I would love to know what their gut flora is like with such a diverse breast milk supply. Formula does not have ogliosaccharides for feeding gut flora, it should be the very very last option.



    I think if your child has chronic health issues stemming back to their birth via c/section, then fecal transplant might be the way to go. I would look for a donor who's family have a good birth history.



    I love this blog post: http://www.livnaked.com/we-came-barefoot-naked-and-covered-in-bugs/
     
  14. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

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