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Napping in the sun

Discussion in 'Beginners Area' started by Dan2, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    I am looking for something that I could measure (myself). (PH test strips?? and blood pressure??)
    Something that would give me a better handle on my potassium status (also other electrolytes).
    Also, eating what @Jack Kruse recommends will result in lower than desired potassium intake.
    I still want to (mostly) follow Jack, so supplemental potassium bicarbonate is here to stay, for me.
    Muscle cramps are a fact in my life, must act on it.
    Mostly I follow the setup @DrEttinger is using, just trying to develop a better feel about it.
    I undercut his potassium recommendation
    (two 1/2 tsp/day)=(1200mg)=(1.2gram)
    to one tsp/day
    and ending up with cramps too often.
    That sends me to the kitchen for potassium at the end of the night. Messing up my nights.
    My latest known (2019) eGFR= 63 (<59)

    The word salary can be traced to ancient Rome and the history of salt.
    Salt was used as a trading medium just as money is used today.
    Ancient Roman warriors who served the empire received payment with a handful of salt each day.
    Apparently people (and animals) crave salt. Or is it just a salty taste?

    KCl has a salty taste. Potassium chloride
    KHCO₃ has a salty taste. Potassium bicarbonate
    Why ancient Roman warriors were not paid with (Potassium chloride) or (Potassium bicarbonate)?
    They have a salty taste.
    They are currently used to provide a salty taste for those who want to limit their NaCl salt.
    John Schumacher likes this.
  2. @JanSz - I too have had muscle cramps since childhood. The only time it went away was when I made sure I had at least one banana in a smoothie every morning. So for years, living at the time in Venture County CA, I'd fresh squeeze local oranges, blended with local strawberries and a local banana, sometimes I would put protein powder in it. -> no muscle cramps. However, as you know, my fasting blood sugar is >90 & <99 even when my carbs are below 50 grams daily for years. Also, as you know, a low carb “diet” pushes the kidney function into a greater need for sodium and potassium.

    So what do I do? How do I find a balance between too much & too little? We know too much potassium could send our heart’s electrical system into panic. If muscle cramps occur unassociated with excretion (exercise), then we have a potassium deficiency. If they occur during exercise, we are magnesium deficient. Do I have this totally figured out? -> I sometimes get potassium related nocturnal muscle cramps -> so, I up the potassium before nighttime.

    What do I take? -> I make capsules of a blend of potassium (Gluconate powder & Beta-Hydroxybutyrate powder). Each size 0 capsule holds around 500mg of powder. I take three in the morning with other minerals. I take one to two capsules before night and an additional capsule when I get up to pee sometime around midnight.

    Salt -> have you read “The Salt Fix” by Dr. DiNicolantonio PhamD, who’s a cardiovascular research scientist at Saint Luke’s Mid America Heart Institute and author of over 200 medical publications and serves as the Associate Editor of British Medical Journal’s (BMJ) Open Heart.

    Magnesium -> Too much is disaster pants; I take three Magnesium -Threonae capsules which computes to 2gram in the morning. I’ve tried to add one Magnesium Oratate; but with disastrous results.

    Here’s a link to affirm alot of what we already know:

    Grandpa John
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
    JanSz and kim johnson like this.
  3. About PH strips -> as you know our electrical system can be measured chemically with a general, how's the fluid PH value: urine, spit and blood (with the last being the least accurate because how tightly the body regulates it). These values are very gross and provide very little diagnostic value. The electrical potential across the human body, from cell to cell within a human circuit has value. We know that an optimum cellular value is -25mV. Cancerous cells are +30mV. So generally: -50mV has a PH of 7.89, +30mV has a PH of 6.48. However, since liquid PH measurements of cells require biopsy, a potentially better measurement tool is electrically.

    Blood pressure measurements often provide heart rate values which help determine our potassium supplementation impact.
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
    JanSz likes this.
  4. Dan2

    Dan2 New Member

    @John Schumacher, you said:
    "The electrical potential across the human body, from cell to cell within a human circuit has value. We know that an optimum cellular value is -25mV. Cancerous cells are +30mV. So generally: -50mV has a PH of 7.89, +30mV has a PH of 6.48. However, since liquid PH measurements of cells require biopsy, a potentially better measurement tool is electrically."

    Does this mean that the electrical potential could affect the potential renal acid load (PRAL)? Instead of eating more net base producing minerals to decrease PRAL, could doing something else to affect electrical potential in a way that changes the pH of the urine and so reduces PRAL make for less need of net base producing minerals? Can affecting electrical potential of some specific kinds of cells affect urine pH/PRAL? Maybe by affecting electrical potential in blood that'll be filtered by the kidneys?



    "[The 'acid-ash hypothesis of osteoporosis'] has been proposed specifically regarding bone health, and this hypothesis is addressed somewhat extensively in the scientific literature. It supposes that in order to keep blood pH constant, the body pulls minerals from our bones to neutralize any excess acid that is produced from our diet. Thus, net acid-forming diets (such as the typical Western diet) can cause bone demineralization and osteoporosis. This hypothesis, often referred to as the “acid-ash hypothesis of osteoporosis,” is what I will discuss for the rest of this article. I’ll address some of the other health claims in part two.

    [Like the claim that the Eskimos high-animal protein diet led to osteoporosis from my post earlier in the thread.
    "Eskimo and Inuit in Arctic regions consume nearly 2,200 mg of calcium per day, yet have some of the highest levels of osteoporosis in the world. This is most likely due to their high-acid (and low alkaline) dietary intake.']

    While more reasonable than the first claim, the acid-ash hypothesis seems to completely disregard the vital role the kidneys play in regulating body pH. The kidneys are well equipped to deal with “acid ash.” When we digest things like protein, the acids produced are quickly buffered by bicarbonate ions in the blood. (7) This reaction produces carbon dioxide, which is exhaled through the lungs, and salts, which are excreted by the kidneys. During the process of excretion, the kidneys produce “new” bicarbonate ions, which are returned to the blood to replace the bicarbonate that was initially used to buffer the acid. This creates a sustainable cycle in which the body is able to maintain the pH of the blood, with no involvement from the bones whatsoever.

    [Bicarbonate ions in the blood used to buffer acids, and bicarbonate ions returned to the blood sustainably? How's the cycle sustainable? If potassium bicarbonate isn't eaten, what makes the bicarbonate in the blood?]

    Thus, our understanding of acid-base physiology does not support the theory that net acid-forming diets cause loss of bone minerals and osteoporosis. But just for argument’s sake, let’s say that our renal system cannot handle the acid load of the modern diet. If bones were used to buffer this excess acid, we would expect to see evidence of this taking place in clinical trials. Alas, that is not the case.

    Clinical Trials Do Not Support the Acid-Ash Hypothesis of Osteoporosis

    At first glance, some of the studies may look convincing, because higher acid diets often increase the excretion of calcium in the urine. Some researchers assumed that this extra calcium was coming from bone. (8) However, when calcium balance (intake minus excretion) was measured, researchers found that acid-forming diets do not have a negative effect on calcium metabolism. (9) Some studies found that supplementing with potassium salts (intended to neutralize excess acid) had beneficial effects on markers for bone health, which would tend to support the acid-ash hypothesis. However, these results were only observed in the first few weeks of supplementation, and long-term trials did not find any benefit to bone health from these alkalizing salts. (10)

    Finally, even though the hypothesis holds that higher intakes of protein and phosphate are acidifying and therefore detrimental to bone health, multiple studies have shown that increasing protein or phosphate intake has positive effects on calcium metabolism and on markers for bone health. (11, 12) Summarizing the clinical evidence, two different meta-analyses and a review paper all concluded that randomized controlled trials do not support the hypothesis that acidifying diets cause loss of bone mineral and osteoporosis. (13, 14, 15)"
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  5. Dan2

    Dan2 New Member


    How to make your own mineral water

    Screen shot 2020-08-23 at 1.11.16 PM.png

    Screen shot 2020-08-23 at 1.11.23 PM.png

    That page also has a list comparing magnesium, calcium and sodium of many mineral water brands.

    I've been using a 100 mg measuring spoon to add Epsom salt to white stone oil + shilajit + salt in water to add sulfate -- 4:1 sulfate:magesium by weight.

    "Magnesium sulfate is a chemical compound, a salt with the formula MgSO. 4, consisting of magnesium cations Mg 2+ (20.19% by mass) and sulfate anions SO 2− 4."

    Gerolsteiner has (mg/L) 345 calcium, 100 magnesium, 1800 bicarbonate, 115 sodium, 40 chloride, 10 potassium, 35 sulfate, 55 other minerals. I don't know how much sulfate or magnesium might be in white stone oil.

    I emailed Gerolsteiner asking what the composition of "other minerals" is. Their reply:
    "The information on the label is based on regulations set by the FDA who requires figures to be round off, including other minerals like fluoride and silicic acid which exist in minimal quantities and do not need to be detailed listed on the bottle. A variety of internal and external analyses by the SGS Institute Fresenius ensure the stability and quality of mineralization throughout our product range.

    Given the extensive amount of minerals we cannot provide a complete analysis of all 240 inspection parameters. The complexity of such a comprehensive analysis requires special expertise and as such is not requested in general. We publish all significant minerals that determine the essence of Gerolsteiner and highlight the characteristics of its quality."

    So I'm guessing that adding magnesium sulfate to white stone oil + shilajit + unrefined salt will result in more magnesium (maybe; some from Epsom salt, some from white stone oil), sulfate, potassium (from white stone oil), sodium and trace "other minerals" (from WSO, shilajit, and salt) than Gerolsteiner. And potassium bicarbonate could be added to that. WSO might have some bicarbonate too.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
    John Schumacher, Jenny S and JanSz like this.
  6. Dan2

    Dan2 New Member

  7. Jenny S

    Jenny S Gold

  8. Dan2

    Dan2 New Member

    Another mineral blend that could be added

    Wright salt

    Introducing Wright Salt
    The international salt secret that could save your heart — and your life
    By Jonathan V. Wright, M.D.



    "proprietary blend of the following ingredients: Sodium chloride, Potassium chloride, Magnesium sulphate, Lysine hydrochloride, Silicon dioxide, Zinc chloride, Copper glycinate, Selenium and Potassium iodine

    Serving Size: 1/4 tsp (approx. 1.5g)
    Amount Per Serving:
    Iodine ... 54mcg, 36% DV
    Magnesium ... 16mg, 4% DV
    Zinc ... 2.85mg, 26% DV
    Chloride ... 660mg, 28% DV
    Potassium ... 200mg, 4% DV

    Not a significant source of... calcium, iron, selenium or copper"

    So sodium, sulfate, lysine, silicon, copper and selenium amounts are proprietary. Maybe using the known amounts and the ratios in the compounds the proprietary ones could be figured out.

    For sulfate, MgSO4.
    Oxygen atom weight 15.999 x 4 = 63.996
    Sulfur atom weight = 32.065
    Magnesium atom weight = 24.305
    Total = 120.366
    Magnesium weight is 20.2%.
    So proportional to 16 mg of magnesium, the 1.5 g serving has 79 mg of sulfate.

    To figure out sodium chloride amount:
    - Potassium chloride is 1:1 K:Cl, so 200 mg:200 mg in 1/4 tsp.
    - There's also potassium as potassium iodine, which is 1:1 K:I, so 54 mcg iodine:54 mcg potassium, not enough potassium bound to iodine to consider for affecting how much chloride to potassium.
    - Zinc chloride is 1:2 Zn:Cl, so 2.85 mg:5.7 mg in 1/4 tsp.
    - That leaves (660 total chloride - (200 bound to potassium + 5.7 bound to zinc)) = 454 mg chloride.
    - Sodium chloride is 1:1 Na:Cl, so 454 mg of Na in 1/4 tsp unless the chloride in lysine hydrochloride is counted in that remaining 454 mg of chloride?
    - Compared to "1 tsp salt = 6 g salt ≈ 2,400 mg sodium = 104 mmol sodium = 104 mEq sodium." (https://www.cdc.gov/salt/sodium_toolkit.htm)
    - 2400 mg sodium in 1 tsp salt / 4 = 600 mg sodium in 1/4 tsp salt and 600 mg chloride.
    - 454 mg sodium in 1/4 tsp of Wright salt (?) and 454 mg chloride bound to sodium (?).
    - 454/600 = 76% of Wright salt is still sodium chloride?

    I guess those are the only two proprietary ones that can be figured out.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  9. Question - Do you drink it or soak in it - While napping in the sun?
  10. Dan2

    Dan2 New Member

    I was using it on food for a while but I like the taste of normal unrefined salt more, I don't know the bioavailability of the mineral forms in the Wright salt, and I think I don't need the minerals other than sodium chloride in it when I'm eating lots of meat, eggs, fish, dairy.

    I haven't put it in a bath. Maybe combining unrefined salt and/or Wright salt with Epsom salt would improve an Epsom salt soak.

    I napped in the sun once when I started the thead. Since JanSz's post about the potassium bicarbonate study I've been replying to the minerals theme.
    John Schumacher likes this.
  11. Richard Watson

    Richard Watson New Member

    Dan - are you still buying from the business below, I'm getting nowhere trying to locate the website. Per gram there prices are quite good compared to buying from western counties.

    QUOTE="Dan2, post: 290503, member: 20918"]This is a good small family business to buy white stone oil and shilajit from. I've bought WSO, shilajit and bee products from them. Just gotta wait about 3 weeks for shipping to the US from SIberia. $6 for 10 g. The picture below is the auto-translated page from Russian. I can explain how to order through email with the owner.

  12. Dan2

    Dan2 New Member

    @Richard Watson

    Yeah, I bought white stone oil and shilajit from them recently. The website URL is just https://etnomagazin.ru

    My shipping price from SIberia to the US was about $20-30 regardless of whether what I bought weighed (just the products, not the packaging) a few hundred grams or 2-3x that, so maybe make one big order.

    You probably want to use an auto-translator for the whole website while browsing, and then you can find the email address of the owner on the product pages somewhere in the detailed description, and then use a translator to email her including both the Russian and English.
    Richard Watson likes this.
  13. Jenny S

    Jenny S Gold

    Hi Jansz, I find the best way to stop cramps is to spray yourself with magnesium oil on most likely spots - for me it's feet - before bed each night
    JanSz likes this.

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