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My Ben Greenfield CT Optimal performance podcast.....is now live.

Discussion in 'Optimal Fitness' started by Jack Kruse, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Up regulation of fat getting being liberated from stores by liver, but the rate limiting step that I think is inducible is the shuttle getting it into the mitochondria......once in Fat creates so many more calories for metabolism it is physically impossible to get worn out......this is why endurance and fat make sense.......no one except Phinney and Volek seem to be looking at that from the science side......to study it we need athletes as yourself to peer into your mitochondria.......that is where fat burning enzymes speed has to change for this to work.......the carb fuel source work fast and this why athletes use carbs to fuel workouts........they never get to the point of fat enzyme/shuttle induction in the mitochondria......
  2. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Go to Everest and see what a Sherpa can do and what anyone else cant.......Same thing with guides on Kilamanjaro........they spend so much time in cold they are able to do things normal people cant. We used to be able to use the Inuit but we no longer can because their diet is now so poor and off the ancestral plan.......they have a 60% T2D rate now......Sad.
  3. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Ok, I'm with you on the fat upregulation. I;ve worked on this myself for years. Switch on CPT-1, Cyctoxhrome c, Hexokinase etc and deactivate ACC. However, the oxygen cost of fat burning is just too high when exercising at prolonged high intensity. Glycolysis simply has to happen with the Cori-Cycle working coherently.

    So how does ketosis allow this ??
  4. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    No one knows.......but what we do know is that performance explodes in cold.......that is what Phinney and Volek are working on. Right now the side of the equation they are on is the low carb high fat part of it......that is the diet. My strong belief is that CT is the epigenetic inducer of the enzymes......and they are just studying the fuel part without the environmental signal When it is cold anyway on earth carbs are just not available...........Form must meet function even for evolution.
  5. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Phinney and Volek haven't found anything exciting yet unless they have some unpublished data. They've shown that efficiency improves and RQ etc. I'm not debating that and I know this works personally. But thats all sub max stuff. Racing at the Tour de France or Olympic Marathon is not sub max.

    Yes, carbs were limited during winter. However, were our ancestors running sub 2.10hr marathons and riding bikes for 200k a day flat out ?? Of course not. But we are now today. While our ancestors may have existed to live and carried out physical activity during the winter on zero carb, they weren't competing at marathons or triathlons.

    Thus, I don't think that argument holds. Yes carbs were not available to them but they weren't training 7 days a week, twice a day and competing in races.
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    They do......I was due to be on cruise and I spoke to Jeff before boarding and we never got to second base........he has the diet down.....but did not realize the cold was the other co factor to making it all work
  7. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Barry I think out ancestor did a lot tougher things than a marathon........GO ask Robb Wolf how it was to do I caveman and then come talk to be about hard.
  8. earlyriser

    earlyriser New Member

    Hopefully this question is not out of place in this thread. I am an athlete that needs to gain some weight for my sport (10-12 lbs) however since starting CT just over one month I have been losing weight despite eating more food. My CT consists of 30-45 mins ice baths @50-55F at least 4 times per week, cold showers daily and wearing only a shirt during winter.

    I eat 90% primal which includes a lot of sweet potatoes + vegetables and grass fed animal products (including butter). I try to take advantage of the post workout window to eat most of my carbs for the day and am eating at least 20% more carbs than I was pre-CT. I lift 4 times per week and do sport specific training 4 times per week. Any help is much appreciated.
  9. Barry

    Barry New Member

    It is out of place. Good question though but could I kindly ask you post it as a separate thread. This particular debate needs to be focused !
  10. Barry

    Barry New Member

    the cold and/or FST. As long as they are not just looking at sub max exercise, then it will be interesting to see
  11. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Jack I think its important to clear this up before we go on:

    Ancestor: hunting, walking, trekking... for hours, maybe days. (albeit in cold and in fasted state)

    Modern Athlete: sub 5min/mile for 26.2mile ... 3.8k swim, 180k bike, 42k run in 8hrs... running 100miles in under 14hrs

    Now the word "hard" has different meanings depending on the context. Sure it was hard to hunt in the cold for days with little food. But that word "hard" has a completely different meaning if you are trying to run a world record marathon or Ironman. Even reduce the distance... try running sub 15min for 5k... thats hard.... our ancestors were not doing this though !!

    So this is my whole point. Modern athletic performance in terms of the physiological demands cannot be directly compared to our ancestral times or even sherpa's and Wil Hoff as I mentioned before.

    You agree ?
  12. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Barry when you trek is over......you know you get food and water.......our ancestors had no assurances. How had more stressors again? In my world......it was not you.
  13. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

  14. jonnyh

    jonnyh New Member

    Interesting listening to that after reading both his recent books, good stuff.

    I have a question, maybe I should start a new thread as I dont want to derail the interesting debate!

    I'm looking to put on weight, been reading about the TKD and CKD diets, keto cycled with some carb re-feeds at the weekend. All the sites I've read say when keto adapted the carb re-feeds dont throw you out of ketosis. But from the video Dr Phinney said if you have one day of carbs, it will take 2-3 weeks to get back to ketosis. What's your views on this?

  15. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    It amazes me how Phinney talks about the diet and the Inuit but never seems to link it to the cold........frustrating....and Andreas never asks either.......
  16. JamesC

    JamesC New Member

    Hey jonnyh, I haven't watched the video yet because im at work but I just started a keto diet and it only took 2-3 days to get into ketosis while excersising and thats after eating a diet high in safe starches so I dont think it will take you 2-3 weeks to start producing ketones. Maybe he is trying to say your brain will take time to adapt again?
  17. JamesC

    JamesC New Member

    Thanks to Jack and Barry for keeping this thread going. It is bringing out a lot of good points and is really informative. I am one week into starting to keto and cold adapt. Im treating it like an experiment and collecting every data point and will follow it strictly for 2 months until my next race which is a 100km road race. Im not far enough in to pull any conclusions out of it yet but I know I defiantly feel good doing the CT. I too am interested at what the upper limit is for intensity while burning fat. Im following a keto diet while working out in a fasted state and doing CT almost every day.

    Thanks again
  18. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Darn... I didn't think there would be any other ultra runners here
  19. JamesC

    JamesC New Member

    Hey Barry Im not. Im a cross country mountain biker :p And it's a cycling race.
  20. Barry

    Barry New Member

    Jack, you are still missing my whole point - elite athlete today does not equal ancestral beings. Full stop as far as I'm concerned .

    Phinney in the video does not mention anything about elite athlete physiology . LCHF works for the average joe , no argument there. But I keep on having to repeat myself when I say this doesn't equate to an athletes world !!

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