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More on choosing indoor lighting

Discussion in 'The EMF Rx' started by metallikat36, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. metallikat36

    metallikat36 New Member

    FYI, a past thread exists on this too:

    My impression is that there is no such thing as artificial lighting that is free of problems. I gather some of the considerations are:
    - Flicker?
    - Wavelength distribution exposed to, as a function of the time of day? (i.e. no blue light at night, but okay during day)
    - Ideally no gaps or spikes in the wavelength distribution (i.e. the graph is relatively smooth)
    - toxins like mercury in the bulb?
    - Some say the polarization of the light matters. I have no idea what that means.
    - Should not be dimmable. Not sure why JK mentioned this.

    Secondary considerations that don't relate to health are things like:
    - cost of bulb
    - electricity cost
    - heat emitted form bulb
    - color rendering index (CRI)
    - Glare

    I use only a lamp on my nightstand with two 40W incandescent bulbs in them. I know incandescents provide wavelenghts that are close to fire, which has little blue light, and no gaps or spikes in the spectrum. Those are the good things.

    Do incandescents flicker? I have read contradictory info on this?

    Check out this 2011 article in Popular Mechanics. They tested the wavelengths distribution of a variety of incandescents, CFLs, and LEDs:
    Incandescents seem to provide the best CRI as well as wavelengths.

    Apparently, a candle is still has slightly less blue light than incandescents:

    Here are three products that may be of interest I have run into:

    1. Sunlight Inside:
    This appears to be a new company. They don't even appear to sell replacement bulbs yet. It looks like it's LED lighting that automatically changes in 24 hour cycles to mimic the phases of the sun during the day, and fire at night. It is expensive, but the wavelength distributions seems good. Not sure about other issues like flicker though:

    2. Bedtime Bulb:
    This claims to eliminate flicker. Not sure how, or if it is true at all. Wavelengths look good though:
    It's only 350 lumens though, so multiple bulbs may be needed to achieve one's goals.

    3. Night Switch Bulb
    This has one mode for day:
    And one mode for night:

    So what do you guys think? We have incandescents, Sunlight Inside, Bright Bulb, and Nite Switch Bulb. These options all seem to pass the wavelength test. Surprisingly incandescents seem to have the most blue of these four options. But what about other issues like flicker, toxins, and polarization? I really don't know what's best. In the other thread Jack suggested a 12 volt DC reflector lamp. I am clueless about those.
  2. metallikat36

    metallikat36 New Member

    Other possible contenders:

    GoodDay and GoodNight bulbs. Sold separately. No obvious info on wavelengths. Some reviews complained of flicker:
    I think the same company might sell a "Genesis Lamp" that is like Sunlight Inside in that it changes on its own between day and night. Qualitatively, the Sunlight Inside light looks/feels better to me, at least in the photos I found.

    Lohas bulb:
    Cheap and comes in a 2-pack. The blue free wavelengths still contain a violet spike, which is unnatural for after dark, but I don't know if that is of consequence. Also still contains some marginal green wavelengths.

    Sleep-shift light:

    One suspicious thing is that some products contain 1 or 2 exact duplicate product images. Might be stock images. Or might be same product branded differently. Just something to keep an eye open for.

    At the moment, I am inclined to try the "Night Switch bulb". Getting some blue during the day might be good, and the nighttime wavelengths clearly have no blue at all, assuming their graph is truthful. One reviewer complained that it forgets it's last setting after a while, so that you might sometimes turn it on at night, but get they daytime wavelenghts, and have to toggle to the next setting to get to the nighttime setting. I can imaging getting up to pee at night and this happening. Not sure if a 1 second blast of blue is enough to upset things though.
  3. metallikat36

    metallikat36 New Member

  4. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    Lichtpeter has already done some heavy lifting for you in terms of flicker only not blue light !

    Way too much at night. One red 15W incandescent would be borderline in this setting.

    The oal is to use no light,the next best thing VERY little light,another next best thing does not exist. We hit the bad for you range...

    It is of consequence. Each colour has a tolerance threshold expressed in studies in lux. Lumen and Kelvin are misleading for our purposes. Your 350 lumen output would mean that you can put one of those lamps in a 300 sq ft room and live in the far corner from the lamp in the other corner
    only. The effect on melatonin release is present in illumination over 10 lux ( lux is defined as light that hits you)

    630 lumen ...
  5. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

  6. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    I agree that artificial lighting on the market, at least for now, sucks in one way or another.

    Our ancestral lighting was sun and fire. It behooves us to stay as close to our evolutionary path as possible.

    Not all of us can, but if you install a fireplace or wood burning stove (where fire is visible) you are ahead of the game, at least when such heating is needed (not so much in warm summers).

    If you can afford it (especially if you are handy with tools to DIY), light tubes installed in walls or roof are next best thing to living in sun. Once purchase/installation costs are paid back (through lower electricity costs), you have essentially free lighting forever.

    After dark you will need of course supplementary lighting. But our ancestors tended to wind down their activities and go to bed soon after dark anyway.

    Another factor to consider in the lighting equation is color/shade of walls and ceilings. That will influence overall color ambience (I have seen a few horrid color schemes that are solid strong blue or some other peculiar one-off color-- not good in my opinion).

    I think we would likely do best color-wise with a neutral, very pastel off-white color of some hue.
  7. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    Err,you are flying in the face of everything that we know currently about how colours affect us. Pastel off white is your eye's interpretation,not what it actually perceives.
  8. I believe 1 second is enough to eff up rhythm and affect sleep/hormones and general wellness. If there is even a small chance that it will blast me with bright junk light or flicker, i wont even plug it in. At night, when we have been in the dark for a while, our light receptors absorb light like a sponge. An amount of light that is imperceptible during daylight is blinding and can trigger big changes at night. I havent stubbed my toes since ive given up light, actually can see/sense more overall.
  9. metallikat36

    metallikat36 New Member

    Wow, thanks. This is a good resource:
    I am surprised that many LEDs have <1% CFD, but no incandescents do. I'm going to email him. It seems he would be willing to test for flicker a handful of LED bulbs that don't have blue light, if we pay for them. I'd be willing to chip in $25 for a bulb.
    Lahelada likes this.
  10. ElectricUniverse

    ElectricUniverse New Member

    I don't understand your argument.

    So, if you believe off-white is bad for you, what color would you choose for your indoor enviroment? And why?
  11. Lahelada

    Lahelada New Member

    I don't understand it either...I apologise!! I misread the end of your post entirely . I was reading it as if you were talking about an offwhite lighting scheme. Sorry!!

    I do think though that an accent wall /niche of red or purple is a good addition to a house. In the same vain as the Finsen red room you may eke out some more red frequencies that way.
  12. metallikat36

    metallikat36 New Member

    - The Bedtime Bulb guy said in an interview his bulb tested the lowest flicker of any bulb he's ever tested. He say it's spec'd at "less than 1%", but that every bulb so far measured has come up less than 0.1%. What measure of flicker he is using I do not know, but that sounds promising.
    - He's also posted a list of compatible dimmers. So if 350 lumens is too much for folk, it can likely be dimmed without issue.
    - In any case, he says he's calculated the melanopic lumens of the bulb to be less than any on the market.
    - I've ordered one bulb. Will update.
    Sajid Mahmood and Alex97232 like this.
  13. metallikat36

    metallikat36 New Member

    The bulb is nice. I like the color very much. Holding my smart phone camera up to the bulb does show some lines moving across the screen, presumably indicating some flickering. But it looked a lot less "violent", for lack of a better word than the previous incandescent I had. I tried the bulb in different sockets in the house and the horizontal lines looked different depending on the socket. I wonder if his claims to be virtually flicker-free might be true, and that maybe it is just my homes electrical that is causing it. In any case, the bulb "feels" great to me. I'm gonna get more.

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