1. Registering for the Forum

    We require a human profile pic upon registration on this forum.

    After registration is submitted, you will receive a confirmation email, which should contain a link to confirm your intent to register for the forum. At this point, you will not yet be registered on the forum.

    Our Support staff will manually approve your account within 24 hours, and you will get a notification. This is to prevent the many spam account signups which we receive on a daily basis.

    If you have any problems completing this registration, please email support@jackkruse.com and we will assist you.

Mold, MarCoNS, and extreme EMF + people sensitivity - my n = 1

Discussion in 'The EMF Rx' started by Ohsosensitive, Jun 29, 2020.

  1. Ohsosensitive

    Ohsosensitive New Member

    Thanks JanSz, that makes it quite clear. I am going to continue this approach of drinking only when thirsty for the near-term. I like it.. it is nice, sustainable consumption model and quite contrary to the popularly held view that you must drink lots and lots of water. I will go down the rabbit hole further based on the links you provided. Wish you all the best!
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Please note that @Jack Kruse supports only parts of what dr Boros proposes.
    Eventually, you may want to try both ways and observe what works for you.
    In any case please keep posting, describe what you do, and how it works for you.

    If you can manage financially,
    Spectracell, DUTCH, and the list of tests that I post (and use).
    It is easier to guess when you have some test to support that guessing.

  3. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

  4. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman Gold

    I would also add a dynamic neural retraining system in like Annie Hopper DNRS or my preferred, The Gupta Program. I also suffer from mold toxicity and chronic illness, and the gupta program has been instrumental in my fainting episodes, anxiety, high heart rate, sensitivity to everything, etc. I read a few reviews on both programs before i picked which one to buy and went with Gupta. I've heard amazing things about both and Neil Nathan recommends them in his Toxic book on mold.
    Ohsosensitive likes this.
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Please help, and be specific.
    Specific in such a way that someone who never heard about the Gupta Program
    would know what helped you.
  6. Ohsosensitive

    Ohsosensitive New Member

    Thanks @JanSz for the detailed list of tests you recommend.. that is quite useful for a number of underlying symptoms I'm sure. Have done about a quarter of the tests, but not spectracell / Dutch or notably the hormone tests (which I suspect will be quite off based on feeling and also what Marcons are supposed to do to MSH, testosterone etc.). All autoimmune indicators (CRP, TNFA, etc.) are negative thankfully, as have any brain, gut, sinus scans. The only positive tests so far have been high mold high Marcons, and direct integrative medicine approaches to tackle these have not worked.. so I am feeling good about trying the more fundamental / epi-paleo type of approach that seems to make a lot of sense. My intuition is with nature its healing power will not diminish over time, but it seems to rather do the opposite and build up e.g. a solar callus :) I will share what works for me, especially for water which I feel is the biggest missing link for me. Will continue with the Dr Boros approach for consumption and explore different approaches to structuring water. There's a ton of good info in the book Dancing With Water, e.g. storing in egg shaped vessels, stirring before drinking, using prill beads. If nothing else it has helped me understand just how amazing water is!
  7. Ohsosensitive

    Ohsosensitive New Member

    Hi @Tfreeman! Good to hear from a fellow mold warrior :) thank you for the tip on the Gupta method.. my understanding from reading about Annie Hopper's method is that it looks to reprogram automatic trigger-responses in the brain, as sometimes even after mold toxins have left the body, the nervous system is still in that habituated response pattern. I must admit I tried the "gist" of DNRS (off a forum) for a week and it just felt like another thing to force my mind to do when it was already so knocked around my stimuli everywhere, so I gave up. It is great to hear that the Gupta method has been impactful for you.. those symptoms (minus the fainting.. yikes) sound similar to mine. It looks like there's a free trial of the first few lessons on their website, so will give that a shot. How long did you do it for before you started to feel a shift.. do you still spend as much time on it these days, and are there any specific tips that have worked well for you? The anxiety is a tricky one I feel coz if we are similar, triggers from moldy beach to EMF to certain people will cause extreme shortness of breath resulting in extreme brain fog, anxiety, inability to speak etc.. and in those situations I am curious to know if an interruption via mental process works as opposed to something more body-centric like belly breathing. Does the Gupta program include both mental and body centric interruptions?

    Glad you found Dr Neil Nathan's books. They seemed really well detailed and I learned a lot about:
    Binders - that ochratoxin A (my particular poison) was best absorbed by Cholestyramine. Separately I read that diatomaceous earth was good for this too. Unfortunately after going through Shoemaker protocol steps 1-3 including Cholestyramine, BEG spray for Marcons, nothing helped long term.

    Did you have any success with binders, and may I ask which mycotoxins came up positive.. and also if you had Marcons? Sorry, lots of questions.. but perhaps it will be easiest if you wouldn't mind just taking through your specific mold condition and what's worked best Vs hasn't.

    Alternative therapies - until I read Dr Nathan's book I didn't know that there were certain classes of mold patients that recess back with any conventional mold treatment. He mentions DNRS strategies here, but also LENS and biofeedback (which I've tried with good albeit unsustainable results). Dr Chris Shade also addresses this patient population and talks about how ochratoxin impacts some pathways that can be reactivated by di-indolyl methane.. again tried this in liposomal form with little effect long term

    Biofilm eradicators - for Marcons in sinus plus mold in gut. Dr Nathan suggests these after establishing a good working rhythm with binders where the body is able to not feel worse after taking the dosage (starting low), again good results short term. I'm on to an alternate of nebulised EDTA and nebulised povidone iodine to bust the sinus biofilm. Will post results if I get anywhere.

    Although I've basically regurgitated a lot of theory above, it doesn't really matter if it doesn't work for you.. and it hasn't so far for me. So I am very happy to learn of something alternative that has worked well for a fellow mold patient, and would love to hear more when you have time. Will continue to work on the basics of getting back to nature and see how that goes. Wish you good health!
    Sean Waters likes this.
  8. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    As far as I understand from Jack - if we are heathy .......mold is a part of life that we can deal with...
    5G Canary likes this.
  9. 5G Canary

    5G Canary Gold

    Just what I observed and learned on my own recovery. When you stay inside all day nnEMF’s steal your water and your oxygen. When inside all day I am not thirsty either and I am not getting enough oxygen to think clearly. I am always more congested when inside all day.... It can be very deceiving. When I am outside all day I am thirsty, I breath better and I think clearer. If you aren’t thirsty and aren’t thinking clearly... could you be spending to much time inside a bad environment?
    Ohsosensitive likes this.
  10. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman Gold

    Hey Caroline, I've actually had this conversation a lot recently. If you read Dr. Nathan's book, he talks about how the problem isn't the excessive mold, which many people most likely have, but the inability to detoxify the mycotoxins properly. Only a small percentage of the population has this issue, so if we put 5 of us in a room, chances are that I'd be the only one affected by mold due to my inability to detoxify it. Mold is definitely a part of life, and fixing our detoxification and ridding our body of the excess mold from years of not being able to detoxify is my thought process right now to make it a part of mine. Working on the few phases of detoxification helps, as well as all of the other steps Jack lays out.
    Sean Waters and caroline like this.
  11. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman Gold

    So I listened to his long program through twice over the past 6 months. Now what I use is the 7 step neural retraining system every time I'm in an episode. It's a self-talk method used to convince yourself that you can function with the world around you. I found Annie Hoppers to be too command-y. The binders and supplements and meds that have worked the best for me are: Welchol, Liposomal Glutathione, Vitamin C, Nystatin 3 times a day, Argentyn 23 nasal spray, Coconut Activated Charcoal, Bentonite Clay (especially for food sensitivity), Monolaurin, and L-lysine (this was also useful for my chronic EBV). Quercetin Ascorbate by designs for health is useful for histamine, though I still struggle with that. I find that the Welchol was the most useful medication and my highest was also Ochratoxin, way higher than anything else. I would say the Gupta program is for anyone with a chronic illness (EMF, digestive, mold, etc), and it helps you to understand how the external stimuli are affecting you. I use it when I feel like I can't move or speak on a beach, when I'm feeling like I'm going to faint, during a panic attack, food sensitivity, etc. and It's gotten me out of all of those situations. For you, I'd maybe start with what he says to do before binders which is the dilution of detox

    Screen Shot 2020-07-17 at 11.56.43 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-07-17 at 11.56.56 AM.png
    Sean Waters and Ohsosensitive like this.
  12. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman Gold

  13. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman Gold

  14. Ohsosensitive

    Ohsosensitive New Member

    Thanks @5G Canary that's an interesting perspective.. definitely echo that congested feeling in office settings! And it sounds like drinking a lot of water while in those settings isn't the solution either, but rather spending more time grounded in the sun. I'll be starting work from home / outdoors next week so can put a lot of this into practice better :) the other thing I notice is a really strong anxious feeling while on Zoom meetings especially with those am sensitive to.. weird how these things can traverse physical distance.. coz it definitely doesn't feel like I'm imagining / overplaying it! Anyway, looking forward to some nice outdoor time in the coming weeks! And my Magnetico which arrives today :)
    Sean Waters and caroline like this.
  15. Ohsosensitive

    Ohsosensitive New Member

    @Tfreeman you're a legend! Thanks for the tips on protocol - I haven't tried Welchol, just all the other binders. I guess it makes sense to given that I have gastroparesis, so cholestyramine might get stuck with undigested food. Will get a prescription and start to take it as per Shoemakers protocol. I have tried antifungals (itriconazole, flucinazole, Nystatin) with good but unsustained effect.. as also liposomal glutathione, coffee enemas, liposomal EDTA and biocidin. But I guess it might just be that I was stirring up a lot of toxin without having the effective binder to pick it up (cholestyramine, coconut activated charcoal, bentonite clay, diatomaceous earth all felt pretty useless after a while). Did you also experience a kind of plateau with cholestyramine and some other meds, before arriving at the formula that works for you? I feel that's been the story of my situation.. 20+ things that have worked great initially and then stop. My focus is now on improving redox but having the binder that works will be key. Regarding food sensitivities, I discovered by accident that I am sensitive to salicylates so cumin, paprika etc. Also if you have gastroparesis like symptoms, then elements of the fast-tract diet may help.. e.g. I found that jasmine rice was much better tolerated than long grain rice due to its lower fermentation potential.

    Super excited to start to incorporate the 7-step approach you've outlined.. and then possibly take the plunge for the full program. I really appreciate that you laid out exactly what works best for you.. the mental aspect of this is something I am definitely carrying a lot of baggage for, and possibly a contributing factor for why medicines stop working, so am very grateful to have a tool that's worked for someone in similar situations :) personally I found that while the beach sand makes me feel awful, getting into the water helps a lot.. so maybe if you surf / swim or just wade that could be a nice way to ground while on the beach.. if it works for you.

    Have experimented with Ozone, MMS, hyperbaric oxygen therapy - all good results the first time / first few times.. then nada. I haven't tried the detox dilution supplements Neil mentions though, thanks for bringing that to my attention. I will see how I go a couple weeks and then might purchase that. Hoping at this stage nature can do it's magic and with the help of a good binder, I can start to mop this stuff up. IV PC is one I've been keen to try but the mold doctors in Australia are very few and it's not under insurance.. not sure how the situation is where you live, but that's been a big hurdle to find someone who does this. Liposomal PC hasn't really worked, presumably efficacy is much lower. The other thing that apparently works well with ochratoxin is D-phenylalanine.. but I've tried with L/D of this and doesn't do much. Out of curiosity, have you checked for marcons? There's definitely interplay between gut and sinus microbiome.. so wondering if that is something that you have experienced / explored further as well.

    Best wishes.. hope all the clarity that comes out of your recovery will be well worth the symptoms!
    Tfreeman likes this.
  16. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman Gold

    As are you! Seems like we are moving down similar tracks. Interestingly, salicylates were definitely a problem for me for a long time. Air hunger is one of my most difficult symptoms that I am struggling to fix. I do notice that the better my days are, the more each symptom dissipates. When I started treating the mold with welchol I improved in terms of food sensitivities. I did experience a plateau with the welchol which is why I started working with @DrEttinger who has me trying various new protocols. If you haven't read Weston Price's Nutritional and Physical Degeneration I highly recommend it! I was in the ocean for the last few days and it really does make quite a difference, you're right. Dr. E says a threefold: 1) Grounding, 2) Sun, and 3) water falling or an ocean with crashing waves. So today and Saturday I did that. I actually used to be afraid of the sun because of my mast cell and histamine issues (which obviously are interchangeable with salicylates due to mast cells). I haven't checked for marcons because I'm trying to keep my detox slow, but I have had good success with a combo of argentyn 23 and xylitol nasal spray for biofilm. I'm trying to build a mindset of using the sun this summer to remove anything that shouldn't be around which I haven't done in the past.

    Today I also added ancestral supplements liver - after reading nutrition and physical degeneration I honestly feel like our detoxes don't work because we are all malnourished and lack sunlight. I had a palate expander growing up so I know the 3rd half of my face didn't develop properly due to deficiencies. The epi-paleo outlines this diet perfectly, and I'm adding some extra organ meats in supplement form. Obviously shellfish and seafood with histamine issues is difficult, and I'm not able to remove myself from enough EMF's currently, so the histamien continues to be an issue. @DrEttinger recommends a water fast for a few days is the best thing for excess histamine and mast cell issues. Have you tried this? The gupta program also helps with oversensitivity which I've found really useful. It's bizarre to think the things are supposed to be nourishing us can cause so much harm.

    I love this what Dr. Price writes here and wanted to share:

    On the presumption that all mentally crippled individuals will be in danger of transmitting these

    qualities to their offspring there is a strong movement continually in operation toward segregating

    such individuals or incapacitating them by sterilization. Several primitive racial stocks have produced

    large populations without criminals and defectives by means of an adequate nutritional program

    which provided normal development and function. May it not be that even our defectives, when they

    have resulted from poisoning of germ cells or interference with an adequate normal intrauterine

    environment, may be able to build a society with a high incidence of perfection, that will

    progressively return toward Nature's ideal of human beings with normal physical, mental and moral

    qualities? Because of its interpretation of the individual's responsibility for his mental and moral

    qualities, society has not only undertaken to protect itself from the acts of so-called unsocial

    individuals but has proceeded to treat them as though they were responsible for the injury that society

    has done to them. Does it not seem inevitable that this apparently false attitude will change if it be

    demonstrated that they are the result of a program of inadequate nutrition for the parents.
  17. Tfreeman

    Tfreeman Gold


    No dentist, no ortho, no doctors.
  18. Saichi

    Saichi New Member

    You mean no nnemf and only nemf.

    I'm the most hardcore foodie on this forum, yet Jack and the people who adhere to quantum principles know food's not the answer. I used to have the worst Bristol with the best Paleo diet possible.
    Tfreeman and John Schumacher like this.
  19. @Saichi - May I ask what's on your menu?
    Looking Forward...
    Grandpa John
  20. Saichi

    Saichi New Member

    This morning had blackfin crab meat with guacamole I made. Tonight having a heritage Hungarian marinated pork butt roast in my vintage dutch cast iron and for dessert cold brew sumatran fresh ground cardamom organic cognac ice cream I made with local dairy.

    If it weren't so hot in NYC right now I'd be eating more.

Share This Page