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Mitochondrial Efficiency??

Discussion in 'The New Monster Thread' started by LightForTheNight, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. LightForTheNight

    LightForTheNight New Member

    How do you measure it?

    Mitochondrial efficiency should be measured by an individual mitochondria's ability to perform. Powerful mitochondria would seem beneficial here. Mitochondria use 90% of the oxygen used in your body to make atp. VO2 max measures the body's uptake of oxygen, which TF measures the cumulative oxidative capacity of the body (cumulation of all mitochondria). You may not see the flaw here but let me tell you.

    Slow twitch muscles are waaaaaay denser in mitochondria than fast/superfast twitch muscles. SO, you can have a very high vo2 max, and have inefficienct (but a lot of inefficient) mitochondria and have a higher vo2 max than someone with MUCH better mitochondrial function. To illustrate my point let me point out that some of the people with highest vo2 max in the world ever recorded are endurance athletes.

    So what I'm saying then is how the hell do we measure mitochondrial efficiency and TF have a gauge on whether what we are doing is having a positive or negative effect? I propose measuring cytochrome c, but that's only because that's like the only thing I know is associated directly with energy production inside the mitochondria.

    Would it make more sense to measure some other compound inside cells or what? How to measure leakiness, how to measure efficiency, how to measure energy production of the mitochondria?

    Vo2 max is a relatively BS indicator of mitochondrial function, is cytochrome C a good measure? If not what would be?
  2. FreeRangeKiwi

    FreeRangeKiwi Ready. Fire. Aim.

    Reactive. Oxygen. Species.
  3. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Many ways.........context of you tells me how we read those ROS team leaves......it is the art of medicine.
  4. Lyndra

    Lyndra Gold

    Serum CoQ10 level?
  5. Martin

    Martin Gold

    My DW brought this to my attention "redox signaling molecules" and this product:

    “ASEA is trillions of stable, perfectly balanced Redox Signaling Molecules suspended in a pristine saline solution—the same molecules that exist in the cells of the human body. Redox signaling is a function that is central to all life. Signaling molecules are created within every cell in the body. After the age of 12, our cells make fewer and fewer of these molecules. ASEA is the world’s only source for replenishing them.”

    I'd like to engage her on this, and would like any info on these "molecules" to give me an overview on what is ACTUALLY going on with this "water" that sports some big health claims.

    I'm a bit dubious, but want to keep a dialog going with DW.
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    the answer is simple H2O..........you'll see.
  7. freesia

    freesia Old Member

    Hi Martin,
    Wonder how different this is to some of the structured waters....and products that claim to have orbitally rearranged molecules? It's an interesting area. (I've seen some people claim for example, that this kind of matter makes up 5% of the brain...and is very fragile around EMF.) Dr Klinghardt uses some of these structured products...bet Thor knows what I'm talking about too.
  8. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Thor is no longer part of this community. He was banned for threatening me
  9. Martin

    Martin Gold

    Not surprised.
  10. Martin

    Martin Gold

    I've seeing/sometimes using these for years and have wondered the same things, freesia.
  11. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    He liked to sail too close to the wind...that's for sure.
  12. ashryn

    ashryn New Member

    Honestly, I don't understand why a person would threaten another person. This is lifelong issue I have had with humans in general. Its the reason why i don't really like them much.

    Where did we learn that it is ok to use force if all other avenues have failed?
    Why do we have such a sense of self righteousness that we will do whatever is necessary to get our own way?
  13. BJK77

    BJK77 Gold

    I don't think we've "learned" that it's ok to use force. I think we are so ill that our brains just can no longer understand consequences or decipher right from wrong. I see this in kids all the time. We are in a very sorry state and it's truly frightening.
  14. ashryn

    ashryn New Member

    Our parents, schools, governments and police all use force to ensure we comply with their world view.
  15. diane

    diane Gold

    To me, using force and using aggression are two different things. Watching animals, they may use "force" with each other - using their bodies to move one another out of the way, using their mouths as communication. All to communicate and without harm. Aggression is escalating and excessive amounts force than necessary in the situation.

    What I'm noticing is an increased amount of aggression in the world.
  16. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

  17. David

    David Silver

    Interesting article, Dr Kruse. We live in a very progressive age.

    I am presently reading 1776 By David McCullough. There was obviously quite a different mindset for our countrymen ‘way back then’.

    For instance, Tony Kushner, screenwriter for the movie Lincoln, recently told Charlie Rose, (PBS) that we need to correct the American trend toward 'psychotic individualism'.

    "We have no hope for survival as a species with this Reagan-era 'psychotic individualism,' and that's what Obama's fixing.â€￾

  18. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    And I'd argue that we have no hope for survival as a species with our complete dependence on others, subject to their whims should they desire to take away our basic materials for life (food, warmth, etc.).

    Interdependence, with an ability to be independent when necessary, sure. Forced dependence ... that's slavery.
  19. fitness@home

    fitness@home Silver

    I heartily agree with your statement.
  20. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Indeed. True words.

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