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Mental illness

Discussion in 'The Cave' started by AnnieW, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. AnnieW

    AnnieW New Member

    My husband went to a psychologist today who said he has either bipolar II or general anxiety disorder with depression. He has violent (not physical) outbursts and is depressed. Many things he is experiencing fits the symptoms of a person with bipolar II. The doctor gave him a prescription but he is reluctant to fill it and I understand.

    I was wondering if any of you have experience with this and what you have done to deal with it. Can it be treated without medicine? He is also seeing a counselor for the talk therapy aspect, and he's going to start meeting with our priest for the spiritual side of things. I really want him to get better for his sake and mine, because I can't keep binge eating to deal with all of this. Getting him on the path to optimal is pretty much impossible because he won't listen to anything I say about EMF, diet, etc. I do what I can at home but it's not much since he doesn't want to listen. Any suggestions besides trading him in for a new model? :)
     
  2. Josh

    Josh Gold

    A good overview is Datis Kharrazian's "Why Isn't My Brain Working". I can pretty much guarantee that the psychologist has not read it. Understand that the scope of practice of the psychologist really discourages him from considering nutritional and functional approaches. There are some cases in the book similar to yours. There are very real physiological reasons for what he is experiencing and he may or may not be interested in addressing them. I found Dr. Kharrazian's work a good foundation to understand Dr. Kruse's work. For me at least, the gradient is everything, if it is too steep, I do not get it. Take good care.
     
    Pamela likes this.
  3. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    Hi Annie. Do you prepare his food/drinks? I put all kinds of good stuff in DH's meals. It would be good if your husband drinks tea/coffee/koolaid/milk chocolate/etc at home, so that you could at least insure he gets at least some non-fluoridated drinks. Anxiety to me sounds like his body is realizing that something is very wrong with his environment/situation.

    When I have felt depressed, it is very easy to find 5-6 things that I can blame the depression on. Like family issues, money problems, pet died, whatever. But when I have gotten some great nutrition, lots of sunlight, etc etc, I find that the world is a joy, despite a loved one being in the hospital, the car got wrecked, etc. It's like a regular doc blaming various ills on getting older. Yes, of course we are all getting older, but that isn't the cause of the illness.
     
    Cpt.Tired likes this.
  4. fitness@home

    fitness@home Silver

    Annie, I know there are others here that deal with this. Hopefully they will post how.

    My 31 year old son was diagnosed Bipolar 2 nearly two years ago. He started meds but did not follow through with them. He is currently distancing himself from most family members and frequently won't even take phone calls. I have noted he cycles down in winter and comes back up in the long light cycles.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  5. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Also, caution that a Bipolar diagnosis is not something wants on one's health record ACA or not...
     
  6. Gagnrad

    Gagnrad New Member

    What's worrying is that some of these diagnoses seem to follow fashions; further, that the fashions in diagnosis are to some extent led by pharmaceutical companies. Dr. David Healy a professor of psychiatry and former Secretary of the British Association for Psychopharmacology --

    http://davidhealy.org

    -- has some disturbing comments on this:

    http://davidhealy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2010-Healy-Mania-ch1.pdf

    Suffice to say, I think your husband's caution is well-grounded. If a doctor brings out a name of a condition, then, because he's attaching a name to it and because he's a doctor, it sound like "science". But is it always?

    Dr. Healy has something to do with the Rxisk database. Whether or not someone chooses to file a prescription, I'd have thought he or she would be well-advised to check the Rxisk database to check what known side-effects he or she might be letting himself or herself in for. Best to be informed:

    https://www.rxisk.org/Default.aspx

    I'd be pretty chary of jumping straight in with pharmaceuticals myself, if I had symptoms of either physical or mental disorder. I'm sure there's a place for them, but I don't think physicians should be grabbing for them in, as it were, a knee-jerk reflex. And even if they are used surely there should be accompanying advice about diet, exercise and lifestyle.

    If there isn't, why not?

    I think that in itself ought to ring warning bells with us. That it probably usually doesn't IMO shows what's wrong with our healthcare system in current societies.

    It is interesting that people like Dr. Davies and Dr. Perlmutter report some amazing health turnarounds, with resolution of both physical and mental symptoms, with patients based on nothing more than taking wheat out of their diets. Obviously, some people's health problems are more intractable, but can still be amenable to treatment via diet and lifestyle.

    But if your husband isn't amenable to that kind of approach … well, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

    Would he perhaps consider neurofeedback? It's something I've long been interested in. I had an assessment session once, but went no further -- it is expensive. But it does seems to help some quite intractable problems:

    http://www.eeginfo.com/what-is-neurofeedback.php

    I've often wondered why one doesn't hear more about it in Paleo circles. Nora Gedagaudas is a neurofeedback technician, and she's about the only one who mentions it. However, I did discover that Dave Asprey -- I think he's a friend of Jack's -- had an interesting interview with a neurofeedback trainer on his podcast.

    Maybe if your husband's not amenable to changes in diet or lifestyle, he would be open to trying a few sessions of that. Just going into an office for a session for 30 or 40 minutes or whatever every now and then is not greatly disruptive to an existing lifestyle and doesn't require much of a "buy in" before trying. Going full Paleo perhaps takes more "buy in" -- more trust and commitment. And if that did help his mood, maybe he'd then be more open to further suggestions from you -- such as cutting out grains.

    But at any rate, I would show him the Rxisk database, so that he can check on what he's being prescribed. You've got to know what you're getting into. Once when I was taking a prescription drug my doctor asked my what my dosage level was and tore me off a strip, because I didn't know. He said it was my business to know what I was taking: that's a good doctor.


    EDIT:

    Something else that perhaps doesn't require much "buy in" from a reluctant person -- fish oil.

    Even the U.S. military is trying that for depression with servicemen:

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...10-million-to-learn-if-fish-oil-can-help?lite
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
  7. AnnieW

    AnnieW New Member

    Wow, thank you so much for the overwhelming support. I knew I came to the right place. :)

    I do all the cooking so I do use liberal amounts of coconut oil and cook grassfed beef, seafood, etc. We only drink spring water and have been doing so for the last 10 years. My husband tries to eat gluten free because he has a lot of stomach problems, but he will eat gluten free cookies and other refined gluten free carbs.

    The doctor's attitude kind of surprised me. He basically gave my husband the script and said do the research and figure out if it's something you want to take. He encouraged my husband to do a lot of research and not feel pressured into taking anything. The counselor seemed to think that a lot of his behaviors were learned from childhood (very abusive parents-mentally and physically). The counselor and doctor are in the same practice so I'm assuming they will work together to treat him. The counselor encouraged medication which is why she sent him to the psychologist. She said it would help him with his therapy, and said that it may or may not be a lifetime thing for him. He doesn't want the bipolar diagnosis either because it will cause major problems with his ability to do one of his favorite hobbies (because he has to disclose his medical records and bipolar is an automatic no).

    The thing is, what they gave him was an antidepressant. If he is bipolar, that could make it worse. If he isn't, it could help. He goes back in a month to see if he's worse or better. I guess he has to keep seeing the doctor so the doctor can determine if he's just depressed or bipolar.

    My husband doesn't like light of any kind, but he complains about days like today when the sun isn't out. He is very reclusive and getting him out of the house can be difficult sometimes, especially if it's to visit friends or family or when it's something he doesn't want to do. He spends almost all his time in front of a computer. He complains about everything and is very irritable all the time. He takes a lot of his anger out on me because I'm the one closest to him. Things have marginally approached getting physical but haven't. It's been a while since that's happened. He has reactions to things that are over the top. He is also very self centered and is only concerned with his own physical comfort. What's interesting is that he is totally aware of all of this. The counselor was very surprised. He knows exactly what sets him off and when he is acting abnormally. He does have a very sweet side which is why I married him. I'm not married to a monster, please don't get me wrong. It's like two different people sometimes. I just want him to get better.

    I agree with this totally. Several years ago I went to a gynecologist and she started getting on me about my weight. I was having a bad day so I started crying in her office. She gave me a script for an antidepressant. Not to be graphic, but why is a crotch doctor handing out head meds?

    Anyway, thank you guys for listening and providing some great suggestions. Keep them coming.
     
  8. Josh

    Josh Gold

    Perhaps search the following: signs of low serotonin, low dopamine, low acetylcholine and low gaba and see what it looks like is off in your husbands neurotransmitters. Most doctors do not learn the functional aspects of neurotransmitters and do not use them in practice. I am the son of 2 psychiatrists, one who still practices and talks about this stuff with me so I have some idea. Kharrazian has very good reviews in his book as well.
     
  9. AnnieW

    AnnieW New Member

    Great Josh thanks so much. I am on that RxISK site and HOLY CRAP what they gave him has some very scary side effects!!! I really don't want him to take it. I forwarded him the link so hopefully he will look at it.
     
  10. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Sunlight.........exposure. Big. If its winter get him to a tanning bed. The key is low proton flow for those with mental illness. There is a faulty step between tryptophan and dopamine and the trip switch is a quantum error in 3 D atomic structure. The go between is kynurenic acid levels. It has been linked with cancer, schizophrenia, inflammatory bowel syndrome and a number of other conditions. Kynurenic acid has been linked to healthy conditions and decreased infections, specifically digestive conditions like leaky gut. While higher levels are associated with inflammatory bowel syndrome, lower levels are linked to irritable bowel syndrome. Here you see why I use the term that the same Maxwell Demon protein can act both as the key to heaven or hell. What determines its ultimate pathway? The morphogenic field which I call the field in Levee one. This field is built by the photoelectric effect, magnetic forces and water chemistry. My bet is your hubbies BUN/creat is off and his D level is in the crapper.........but the biggy is a bad cortisol melatonin circadian linkage.

    Kynurenic acid is necessary in order to stimulate "normal cognition". It is used within our central nervous system to act as a go-between Maxwell Demon with dopamine and the three legged stool natural elements.

    Individuals with bipolar disorder experience episodes of an elevated or agitated mood known as mania alternating with periods of depression
    Kynurenic acid is the key component of dopamine neuron firing in the frontal lobes, and when its levels are too high among the central nervous system, neuropathic and even disorienting conditions can prevail like we see in many mental disorders.
    Meta-analyses of structural MRI studies in bipolar disorder report an increase in the volume of the lateral ventricles, globus pallidus (Forms the walls of where the sleep vortex is crafted to focus of defocus on the hypothalamus on the anterior 3rd ventricle where the HPA axis lies) and increase in the rates of deep white matter hyper-intensities (On T2 signaling) . There is evidence of HPA axis abnormalities in bipolar disorder due to chronic activation of the PVN. ( Brain Gut 16 or 17) This increases the sympathetic outflow. What is associated with this? Calcium efflux from the brainstem and pineal. All tied to bad sleep and non native EMF. The dopamine system controls mood and are all coupled to G receptor proteins that are all coupled to calcium and calmodulin signaling. See the post in the EE series on Calcium ion frequency magnetic resonance. I think it was EE3. This all ties down to how the brain mitochondria work...........all low redox potential is the final common pathway tied to different alteration in light water and magnetic forces.
     
  11. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Turski MP, Turska M, Paluszkiewicz P, Parada-Turska J, Oxenkrug GF. Kynurenic Acid in the Digestive System-New Facts, New Challenges. Int J Tryptophan Res. 2013 Sep 4;6:47-55.
     
  12. AnnieW

    AnnieW New Member

    Thank you so much for that info. I was thinking a tanning bed for him. He seems to sleep well (and sleep A LOT) but the non native EMF is HUGE in our home. We live in a townhouse and we have WiFi right across from our bedroom. Plus he is in the IT field and he is around it all the time. I am going to research all of this and see what we can do. He just emailed me back and said he wasn't taking the medication after reading that website.
     
  13. AnnieW

    AnnieW New Member

    How much time in the tanning bed?
     
  14. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Got to see the dose response.........you wont know until you see the result.
     
  15. SeaHorse

    SeaHorse Gold

    Annie...I can offer my vote for all of the good things suggested above. I've had horrible experiences with antidepressants, but in a few cases they kept things from bottoming out. Frankly I would try everything before going that route. If your husband is open to going to any therapist I strongly suggest you find someone that has Somatic Experiencing training. Talk therapy success rates are really dire. Finding somebody you works with the nervous system and can help your husband with self-regulation could be very helpful. As you wrote....he knows and is aware at one level of the over and under expression of his feelings and emotions. Without the proper support from the environment, food,light etc. it will be really challenging for him to gain momentum to get better BUT, we all carry a design of health and healing within us, so it's a matter of finding ways to activate this....not medicating symptoms. PM me if you want any more info on Somatic stuff.
     
  16. caroline

    caroline Moderator

    My gosh Annie .... you are dealing with so much- please take care of you. You need to get where you need to be so you can help your DH ...
     
  17. AnnieW

    AnnieW New Member

    Thank you for your help everyone. I talked to him more about it last night and he did seem receptive to the suggestions mentioned here, but I can never tell if he's just blowing smoke at the moment.

    Are there labs we should run periodically to see if this is having an effect or we just experiment until he feels better?
     
  18. Inger

    Inger Silver

    One of my sisters have a husband who is bipolar. He had to drop his meds (I think he used lithium) because of side effects.. after many years of use. He started eating a pretty low carb healthier diet my sister suggested to him, dropped soda and sugar and bread etc. My sister said he got so different only from that. It helped huge! So if you could feed him yummy steaks and such and he would agree to try.... might help him too! Sure.. if he is not willing to change anything it is not much you can do but take care of yourself. Never forget that :love: not worth it to destroy one self while trying to save someone else.... (I have been married with an alcoholic since 14 years and I speak from experience... it made me sick too. Because I wanted to help so badly. I think about me now and boy do I feel much better)
     
    Cpt.Tired likes this.
  19. nicld

    nicld Gold

    I wish you all the best Annie. I cannot imagine how hard it is so see someone you love struggle so much.

    Issues with the brain have always fascinated me and make me wonder what chemicals are imbalanced to cause such issues. Hopefully he will take your advise and start to make changes to avoid medication. We are all here for you.
     
  20. Ken23

    Ken23 New Member

    Hi Annie. I really feel where your coming from. I was diagnosed bipolar a few years back, after being misdiagnosed years earlier and I can understand the struggle. I tried treating myself with so many diets and failed on everyone, until I came here and started reading Dr K's work and listening to the wonderful people on this forum who have helped. I'm now 6 months into eating epi paleo, doing ct and I feel the best I've ever felt. Last took lithium in September. I reached out with a thread on here and got a lot of great feedback. This is my first time posting in many months and I plan to get back on here and post more, I've just been working on my own health. I would say that all of this stuff could def potentially work for your husband, it has for me. I owe Dr. K so much thanks. Pm me if you have any questions.
     
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