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Discussion in 'Optimal Labs' started by MeghanK, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. MeghanK

    MeghanK New Member

    I had my magnesium tested last summer and it was 2.2 with reference range of 1.7-2.6... How much Magnesium do you recommend? I usually spray Ancient Magnesium oil on me which says that 8 sprays = 100mg of elemental magnesium.... Ingredients: water, Genuine Zechstein magnesium chloride.... then take 2 tsp. of Natural Calm which is ionic magnesium citrate (created from a highly absorbable proprietary blend of citric acid and magnesium carbonate) which yields 350mg.... so total for me probably like 550mg???? I'm 5'3 1/2" about 95-100lbs....... or should I not even supplement because of my level.....
    Quantum1 likes this.
  2. HoneyChild

    HoneyChild Gold

    I'm guessing that you got a serum test rather than an RBC which is the one you really want.


    It's generally suggested to take you weight in lbs, multiply by 5 and this gives you the rough amount of mag in mg to take. So you'd be wanting to take 500mg however ultimately you want to go based on symptom relief and to have your RBC mag over 6 as per the link above.
  3. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I supplemented with 1000 mg of magnesium daily (inside of a chelated magnesium) for about 3 years, and then got a magnesium RBC test. I scored a 5.8, which I thought was great at the time, based on the range. But I will still get a twitchy eyelid if I forget my mag. So I think I am just on the border of being ok.
  4. Dextery

    Dextery New Member

    redbeauty17 likes this.
  5. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    When somebody tells you that taking supplemental magnesium is safe and always makes sense you might want to vet that information carefully. Those people usually have a secondary gain issue in selling you a pill or supplement you may not need. This is superfluous treatment and leads to a profit of the profiteer. Let me give you an example.......Magnesium cannot work without sunlight. Do you know why? Sunlight reverses the photosynthetic process in animals. Photosynthesis, in plants, takes CO2 and H20 and makes sugar. In fact, the entire food web links to photosynthesis from the plant/marine webs linked to sunlight. Let me clear.......THE ENTIRE FOOD WEB links to the sun because of this one reaction. None of your food gurus tell you this when they sell you their books or ideas. Ever wonder why? Because they do not realize it or they don't want you to realize it so they can take advantage of your lack of knowledge or you laziness to educate yourself. You, as an animal with mitochondria, reverse the photosynthetic reaction and turn sugars and fats into CO2 and water. So mitochondria MAKE water from the full oxidation of food via the TCA cycle. Oxidizing glucose alone is not a full combustion process so not enough water is made. Is this why people have a magnesium problem when they eat a high carb low-fat diet in a non-tropical region? YEP. The reason is simple to understand when you look at the process from the perspective of how nature uses photosynthesis........you need more sun to make more water in your matrix to allow magnesium to operate as it should in a sunlit environment. In fact, the amount of sun you live in determines the type of food you SHOULD be eating locally. Today that effect is BROKEN by how humans grow and buy their food. It is no longer controlled by the solar cycles and this is why problems occur. Taking exogenous magnesium DOES nothing to solve this.......it actually makes it WORSE. Did you know that magnesium is hydrophilic in biochemistry? It means it ONLY works when water is present in the aqueous environment. In a person with mitochondrial damage OR A CIRCADIAN DEFECT, not enough water is made in our matrix and taking exogenous Mg in this case can be toxic for a cell. This can stimulate apoptosis and stem cell depots to deplete themselves of your life force more quickly than nature needs it to happen. Magnesium men salespeople never tell you this information......because they act like they do not know it, or they really are this ignorant. Your choice on that viewpoint about them. Most supplement takers and lemmings do not know this either, hence why they are so gullible in becoming a customer of the pill pusher......Today, I care enough to educate your why their ideas are BAD for you because most of you have a circadian arrhythmia from the action of blue light on melanopsin and Vitamin A in your skin. Caveat emptor on who is your expert on magnesium.
  7. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    when your redox is decent you dont need it.
    Alex97232 and Danco3636 like this.
  8. Danco3636

    Danco3636 Silver

    Thank you..... the better the connection and environment the less you need. More may actually be more harmful. Something Berry has been talking about In his postings.
  9. Annie Dru

    Annie Dru Silver

    So I'm wondering if an RBC lab is of any value. I had mine done last February and I was at 6.2 without oral supplementation; only Ancient Minerals transdermal application.
  10. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    Time flies, we all learn.


    the amount of sun you live in
    determines the type of food you SHOULD be eating locally.

  11. Quantum1

    Quantum1 New Member

    99% of the magnesium sold is complete garbage based on actual lab tests. I've only found 1 that is safe and actually works. Taking a boat load of Mag without K+, natural sea salt and Ca- isn't a good idea. You need a minimum of 6 grams of K+ per day. Good luck eating 50 bananas :(

    RBC Mag Testing: The problem with this is that magnesium is not IN your blood. In fact, 99% of the magnesium in the body is in the cells; while only a mere 1% of your the body’s total magnesium is in the blood, making a blood test for magnesium nearly worthless

    better test would be: Sublingual epithelial cell testing

  12. Annie Dru

    Annie Dru Silver

    Isn't that why RBC testing is preferable... because the mag is in the red blood cells rather than the plasma?
  13. JanSz

    JanSz Gold

    2013-01 January webinar----------Mitochondrial Rx
    Time 50:00 and on magnesium

    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
    greentrees and drezy like this.
  14. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray Martha Ray, New Member

    John Schumacher likes this.
  15. Just a note on magnesium -
    • Jack says:
      1. Key point before answer it........if you are dehydrated and loaded in an EMF environment Mg DOES NOTHING TO HELP YOU.
      2. Magnesium L-Threonate is best for neural issues........EMF is a neural issue because the brain has more mitochondria than any other organ by a long shot.
      3. orotate is best for the Heart.
      4. Malate is best for the muscles of the body
      5. Mg citrate is best for the gut
      6. When you take them only matters if you are also taking Vitamin D. Do not take Vitamin D with Mg......if you take D make sure your Mg is notwithin 2 hrs of the dose. Mg cn be used round the clock with little issue.
    I wrote:
    A hydrated Mg2+ ion has a relatively robust innermost hydration shell with six bound water molecules and a second hydration layer. Fully hydrated Mg2+ ions bind to RNA.

    We know the release of phosphate from the nucleotide binding pocket of a myosin motor occurs only after step-wise hydration of Mg2+ by four water molecules. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/817254v1.full.pdf

    With all the talk about DDW, without first thinking about hydrated alkaline metal ions and their behavior in human plasma, it seems silly to me. I believe we need to first understand cellular hydration both externally to the phospholipid biliary within the phospholipid biliary and within the cytoplasm.

    For example:

    Gas-Phase Reactions of Hydrated Alkaline Earth Metal Ions, M2+ (H2O)n (M = Mg, Ca, Sr, Ba and n = 4–7), With Benzene https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1401488/ Ion transport processes across cellular membranes are governed by the role of competitive intramolecular and intermolecular interactions between solvent molecules, proteins or peptides, and the ions of interest. The transfer of an ion through a hydrophobic environment can be effected by two mechanisms. The ion-carrier mechanism involves naturally occurring multidentate ligands known as ionophores. These ligands can arrange to form cavities with higher selectivity toward a specific ion in solution. Ionophores, such as valinomycin and nonactin, bind potassium ions preferentially over the other alkali metals. Once the ion–ionophore complex is formed, the outer hydrophobic surface of the “carrier” facilitates the transport into or across the nonpolar environment. The second ion transport mechanism involves channel-forming ionophores, like the gramicidins, which form hydrophilic pathways extending across a hydrophobic membrane allowing the passage of ions. The selectivity observed in solution for complexes between ionophores and metal ions is a consequence of the small differences between the stability constants of the cations with water and those of the cations with the ionophores.

    Hydrated Magnesium Cations Mg+(H2O)n, n ≈ 20–60, Exhibit Chemistry of the Hydrated Electron in Reactions with O2 and CO2 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jp206140k Ion–molecule reactions of Mg+(H2O)n, n ≈ 20–60, with O2 and CO2 are studied by Fourier-transform ion cyclotron resonance (FT-ICR) mass spectrometry. O2 and CO2 are taken up by the clusters. Both reactions correspond to the chemistry of hydrated electrons (H2O)n–. Density functional theory calculations predicted that the solvation structures of Mg+(H2O)16 contain a hydrated electron that is solvated remotely from a hexa-coordinated Mg2+. Ion–molecule reactions between Mg+(H2O)16 and O2 or CO2 are calculated to be highly exothermic. Initially, a solvent-separated ion pair is formed, with the hexa-coordinated Mg2+ ionic core being well separated from the O2•– or CO2•–. Rearrangements of the solvation structure are possible and produce a contact-ion pair in which one water molecule in the first solvation shell of Mg2+ is replaced by O2•– or CO2•–.

    Magnesium is an electrolyte responsible for keeping potassium inside and sodium outside of the cell. Magnesium is found in abundance inside ATP cells (the body's energy cells) and is also involved with the contraction of muscle, nerve conduction and helps with cell division and repair. http://physicaldimensionsihg.com/the-importance-of-electrolytes-and-hydration Potassium is involved with the acid-base regulation keeping potassium levels regulated will help to buffer the lactic acid build up in muscle tissue.

    Mg2+ transport proteins to eukaryotes and across the cell membrane. The CorA family of magnesium transporters is the primary Mg2+ uptake system of most prokaryotes https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3836678/

  16. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray Martha Ray, New Member

    This link from HoneyChild, Jul 13, 2013 not found now, 2020...I've been looking for equivalent doses of the usual milligram forms of supplemental magnesium for the form of
    Magnesium L-Threonate. The brand I take indicates 2,000 mg. But, from my limited understanding, L-Threonate is not calculated the same as the other forms. I have been taking L-Threonate for about 4 years because other forms and CalMg (Calcium/ Magnesium forms were resulting in leg cramps.
    I usually take 6-9 pills per day 3 with my 2 meals per day and sometimes 3 before bed.
    Directions on the bottle say.... As a dietary supplement, take three (3) capsules per day. Two (2) mid-day and one (1) at night, 2 hours before bed.
    Other Ingredients: Capsule (Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose), Microcrystalline Cellulose, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Hydroxypropyl Cellulose.

    I do not not like fillers in supplements but have not found a potent brand of less or better fillers. I do not like pharmaceutically produced supplements and wish to find clean foods and quality 100% food supplements and herbs. I did find

    Magnesium Complex

    Item No. 567 - By Food Research

      • Provides food magnesium
      • One of the most nutrient-dense magnesium foods available anywhere
      • Easier on digestive system than mineral salts can be
    I am fed up with supplements! But of all food nutrients beyond Sunlight ...I think Magnesium is a heavy hitter.
    Is anything better than sunlight, water, magnetism and food?

    Edward Group of Global Healing artilce mentions

    9 Common Types of Magnesium Explained


  17. Martha Ray

    Martha Ray Martha Ray, New Member

    Thank you John!
    • I think I am dehydrated and believe I am in a loaded EMF environment. I do appreciate all of what you shared but so much of it is way over my understanding right now but I will reviewing and will keep moving.

    • Have taken all those forms before great to know what they help with and to not take Vit D with Mg...I take this 100% food D Complex supplement, www.buyfoodresearch.com/products/d-complex?_pos=1&_sid=252c0cfbb&_ss=r but I do not take them together...not sure if apart if matters with the food supplement.
    • All Mg forms except L-Threonate had been causing me leg cramps ...but I've not tested them in 4+ years. RBC Mg cellular blood test runs 5.5 to 6 so I'm not low but who knows what optimal is.

      I have a lot to consider.
  18. I'm taking (3) Magnesium L-Threonate in the morning https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-magtein-magnesium-l-threonate
    and (2) Magnesium Hydroxide at night https://www.vitacost.com/natures-answer-marine-based-magnesium

    I drink ultra-filtered RO water with few drops of https://www.vitacost.com/trace-minerals-research-trace-mineral-drops-concentrace-8-fl-oz-4
    I typically drink water throughout the day; but not during a meal. Digestion can be disrupted by alkaline water. A tablespoon of apple cider vinegar raises the acidity of the stomach.

    What are you doing to mitigate your nnEMF exposure? Have you already made sure you do not have "dirty" electricity in your house? Here is who I used in my are: https://www.windheimemfsolutions.com/
    Do you sleep in an nnEMF free area - https://www.lessemf.com/bedding.html? Do you have a https://magneticosleep.com/ ?

    One of the things real important for our brain function is DHA and choline. I take:
    Because I'm able to make the hormone "vitamin" D. My D3 levels are typically between 90 and 110 during the summer months. I also stand in UV + IR-A lights at my desk. https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?posts/293798
    One of the things which is important with UV exposure is to take Astaxanthin which helps manage your melanin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6073124/
    Jack says we need to build our "solar callus" - https://www.facebook.com/drjackkrus...ood-and-sunlight-critical-t/2156289451102064/.

    However, if you are taking D3 as a supplement, please consider also taking K2 -
    Thank you for the correspondence,
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  19. Billybats

    Billybats New Member

    Hi John,

    Where you mention krill oil and choline, you say something about have a good level of vit d. Which one are you referring that to both krill oil and choline. Are you saying if vit d is low it wouldn't do much or make matters worse. Can you elaborate on this.

    Thank you
  20. We have two hormones which are very critical to our health
    So we know:​
    • Melatonin is the hormone of darkness https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4334454/ -> The pineal gland receives input from postganglionic fibers, leading to the release of noradrenaline and increased production of cyclic AMP, thus activating the enzyme AANAT, mentioned above, which is critical to the production of melatonin.
    • The biomass precursors for building melatonin are
      • tryptophan,
      • methionine,
      • inositol,
      • magnesium,
      • vitamins: B-2, B6 & D
    • The inhibitor is any form of Folic Acid
    The question: Do we need to supplement these two hormones?
    Perhaps if our values are so low we are in danger of disease or cancer.
    However, the preferred way to increase these is with the sun & darkness.​

    If you don't mind, I will get back to you about krill oil (DHA) and choline. Generally speaking, these two nutrients are very important for your brain and neuro function. It takes around 7 years to replace half of these type of cells -> neurogenesis.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021

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