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Lean Seafood and Additional Fat for Epi-Paleo Ketosis

Discussion in 'The Epi-Paleo Diet' started by Technosmith, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. Technosmith

    Technosmith New Member

    Hey folks,

    There is a 'Keto-coach' called Stephanie Person who, having worked with hundreds of individuals attempting to adapt to a ketogenic diet, is adamant that it requires 200 grams per day of dietary fat to programme the body to adapt to fat burning.

    So my question is as follows - Do people tend to supplement additional fat to seafood meals when utilising ketosis in winter due to seafood being relatively lean? If so, how much are you guys adding roughly per meal?

    I know Jack suggests to avoid saturated fats with seafood but I'm wary of the quality most olive oils, so do we think animal-based fats could be utilised?


  2. kris90

    kris90 New Member

    I think chasing a "magic number" is pointless. It's no different than calculating macros, and aiming for targets.

    Whatever you don't eat, your body will use somewhere. Ketosis is about fasting, not about shoving as much fat down the hatch as possible, or purposely trying to increase your fat intake. In my experience, I let my leptin receptor account for energy and tell me if I need more fat or not. TBH, I have no idea how many calories or how much fat I consume. I just eat 2 meals a day: one a seafood feast with nuts, the other a high saturated animal fat meal.

    I wouldn't purposely try to add fats to reach a target. I would just eat high fat foods, and if adding oils, lard or butters, do it not for reaching a target, but for enhancing the taste of your foods. Being cold adapted naturally gives you a palate that favors fat, so just enjoy your diet.
  3. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    Eating lean anything is not a deuterium depleting plan.
    Danco3636 and kris90 like this.
  4. Technosmith

    Technosmith New Member

    Hey Kris,

    Thanks for that pal. I tend to agree that chasing magic food numbers could be a pointless task.

    What you say makes sense and is completely logical but this chick Stephanie has worked with hundreds of people and is adamant that it requires 200 grams per day of dietary fat to programme the body to adapt to fat burning. She seems genuine as well.

    Interesting as to why she has found this to be the case.
  5. Technosmith

    Technosmith New Member

    Nice one Jack. But most seafood is naturally pretty lean though. Even farmed salmon is not majorly fatty.

    So my point was in regards to supplementing additional fat to the seafood meal, whether it is necessary, and perhaps alternatives to adding processed oils (even olive oil)
  6. kris90

    kris90 New Member

    Why 200g from food? A lean individual such as myself has 12 lbs of body fat (which is equal to about 5455g). If I simply stop eating, my fat requirements will come from the 5455g I have stored in my tissue.

    Eating more fat is not going to magically help you fat adapt any faster. Fasting, low carb, low calorie all do the same thing: allow you to tap into your own fat stores. Pounding more fat is not going to speed that up.
  7. Hi Phil...

    I cook all my Seafood in liberal fat, fuck that lean shit. Stephanie is probably wrong on her justification, I think we can fat burn in a fasted state without food... but she's right in that adding lots of fat to food is a good thing.

    For me this morning was Trout, in about 30-50 grams of butter... Sometimes I add Olive Oil to that.. But today, I had an Orange and Reisling Butter that my local fishmonger whipped me up. It's like Orange Zest blended with butter. It was stunning.

    I use liberal amounts of Nut Butter when stir frying with my vegetables on a lot of days. turns them into a satay veg stir fry. So good.

    I also eat about 6 eggs cooked in the same amount of butter when I eat them, and about 4 rashes of bacon and 4 sausages. That's probably somewhere around 100grams of fat just for breakfast.

    Dinner will be the Trout for example, with vegetables fried in butter/CO and peanut butter/ almond butter/ macadamia butter. That nut butter is frowned upon in this forum for the Omega 6 content (I think!)... But nuts and seeds are also a part of the Epi Paleo RX... I use it liberally anyway and have no issues. Check your own response with these.

    If I'm not feeling the nut butter, I melt some 90% dark choc in a pan with butter/ coconut oil, flax seed, stevia, double cream and mix it all up, I either cool it and eat later when it is hard or just spoon it like a crazed 6 year old in a chocolate factory. It's heavy though, so your stomach quickly tells you when you've had enough. But that is literally loaded in fat... Proably 200grams alone.

    Brent Patrick and kris90 like this.
  8. kris90

    kris90 New Member

    Sean, you're making me hungry!

    The nice thing about being a fat burner and being cold adapted is that calories don't matter. I tend to do the same, always cook with a ton of butter or CO, and I usually eat some raw almond butter with coconut oil and chocolate. I've done the 90% lindt with butter, CO, heavy cream and nut butter in a pan, and let them cool into what looks like Reese Peanut butter cups.

    Point is, I do a lot of fasting (18 hrs per day), so I think I'm burning a lot of my own fat regardless of my dietary fat intake. Recycling my protons FTW.
    Sean Waters likes this.
  9. My bad haha I just LOVE FOOD
    kris90 likes this.
  10. kris90

    kris90 New Member

    Haha, I'm a HUGE foodie also. But I also love fasting. When I eat, I eat big. When I fast, I get shit done without even thinking about food.

    I try to educate people about the "ancient pathway"/cold adaptation/fat burning because once you activate it, you never become a slave to counting calories, and you can get ridiculously ripped while force-feeding yourself high fat foods! :D Nobody believes me, yet I'm living proof. I lost 12 lbs since beginning of summer COMPLETELY unintentionally. I even stopped exercising (cuz my sleep is not optimal for now with a newborn), and the weight still keeps coming off. Back in my bodybuilding days, I used to dream of reaching single digit bodyfat % while starving myself and exercising 6 days in the gym, and now I forcefeed myself and maintain 8% bodyfat LOL.

    IME, CT is WAY better than bodybuilding workouts for getting ripped.
    SlamSlask and Sean Waters like this.
  11. Pogo

    Pogo New Member

    Being (or more accurately, appearing) genuine does not imply veracity. Believing something does not make it the truth.

    Her website is riddled with inaccuracies, many of which are patently false. Not a good start for someone selling herself as a "keto coach":

    This is representative of the peak stupidity building in the keto community:

    I can put myself into ketosis in a couple of days without eating a single gram of fat.
    Sean Waters likes this.
  12. Pogo

    Pogo New Member

    I misread that as cooking all your seafood in liberal duck fat! YUM!!

    Stephanie doesn't understand a single thing about biology, physiology, or nutrition. But she is quite right about the importance of dietary fat, and how delicious it is.
    Sean Waters likes this.
  13. @kris90 I've not fasted for a while, I've been doing the leptin reset and eating the highest quality fish for the last 6 weeks... It's been enjoyable. But I want to get back to fasting as soon as I'm ready... But I've got an Xmas trip to India to get through first, Seafood curry :O

    Yeah I'm CTing twice daily in the shower at the moment, with Black Light and IR therapy afterwards... Sleep and Energy has improved massively just in the first 4 days of doing this. Not worked out properly in 6-7 weeks and I feel a lot better... but I do like training outside I have to say!
    kris90 likes this.
  14. Hahaha I haven't looked at her page but I can imagine what it looks like lol :/
  15. Technosmith

    Technosmith New Member

    Guys, Stephanie is not simply referring to being in ketosis, she is referring to what it takes to become 'fat-adapted'. Yes, simply fasting will put you into ketosis but you might feel like shit if you ain't physiologically adapted to burning fat and are predominantly used to utilising carbs.

    So what she is saying is that she finds people need to consume 200 grams+ each day of dietary fat in order to adapt to a ketogenic diet.
  16. Sun Disciple

    Sun Disciple AKA Paul...That Call Drop'n Canadian

    Remember with seafood try to combine with mono-saturated fats beacause saturated fats like butter can hinder DHA absorption into the brain.
    Ryan the Mitovator likes this.
  17. and Curcumin increases it... Seafood + Butter + Turmeric curry for the win.

    Fat Adaption is about becoming a fat burner - that ties more with the Uncoupling Proteins, Thyroid, Leptin and your Sleep than it does with actual dietary Fat consumption.... These is what @Pogo is saying I think. It's frustrating when she probably has lots of followers all receiving inadequate information about "Fat adaption".

    I don't like to slag people off, especially when she likely isn't intentionally misinforming people, but it's good for us to remain clear that on this forum we strive for optimal and no less.
    Dean6789 likes this.
  18. Billybats

    Billybats New Member

    Dr.K says in the leptin BAB if you are still hungry add more fat. I know when I first tried keto diet in the past I did it wrong and went high protien which was awful feeling and hard to do. I haven't been following one lately because of different reasons but follow other dr K's things like sun, grounding, blue blockers, lights at night, water and noticed still steady changes for the good.. its a slow process but feeling better. I did add raw oysters and noticed even better results, they are magical.

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