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Kids Teeth

Discussion in 'Optimal Kids' started by MamaGrok, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    This was in 'Ask Jack' and so got answered and closed. But I have a more thorough answer, lol, and thought I'd share it because you know you're all entitled to my opinion. ;)


    - usually contain BPA and/or other leaching plastics

    - usually fall out long before they're "supposed" to

    - often contain time-released fluoride (yeah, my kids' hygienist let this one out of the bag when I was asking about BPA)

    - often trap food particles and/or bacteria underneath, because the seal is not perfect

    - don't address the root cause of cavities AT ALL
  2. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    If you want to know about teeth, you MUST familiarize yourself with Weston Price. He was the lead researcher of what became known as the ADA, and wanted to know why kids' teeth were getting so crooked/misaligned, and adults & kids' teeth were getting so many cavities. He traveled the world in the 1930s - after photography became common, but before nearly every last tribe in the world started eating modern foods - and documented many groups which were still living their native lives and eating their native foods.

    He found that so long as they ate only processed foods, they had almost no cavities - and also, no cancer, depression, obesity, diabetes, sociopaths, mental retardation, birth defects, or tuberculosis (the contagious killer of the day). He found that the closer they lived to the trading post (and hence, the more they traded for industrial food), the more they had these diseases of civilization, even with the same lifestyles.

    He found that they all had certain things in common, no matter whether they lived in the Alps and ate sour rye, spring-fresh cheese, & goat; lived in Africa & ate nothing but meat, blood, & milk; lived in the South Pacific & ate fish, fruit, & insects; or lived in the Arctic and ate primarily seal blubber & whale oil - they all had ten times the fat-soluble vitamins (that means animal fat) of the typical American of the 1930s (think how much more Americans ate then than now), all used organ meats, and most used broth, ferments, & (something else I just forgot). They also all spent at least six months before an expected pregnancy eating extra amounts of super foods like whole shellfish, liver, etc.

    Long story short, he did testing and found that eating fat-soluble vitamins (and enough magnesium) is CRUCIAL for the body knowing what to do with all the Calcium we shovel down our gullets. A bit of butter oil and fermented cod liver oil daily is enough to save teeth, but the more you eat of the animal sources of these vitamins, and especially K2, the better your teeth (and all other bones! think about scoliosis and osteoporosis!) will be.

    I have used these principles to stop ALL the cavities in my family. My children all got cavities starting at age 18 months, even though they had almost no sugar or juices in their diets, and meticulous ADA-style home hygiene & checkups. As Price's data predicted (he observed that when children are born close together and/or the mother does not make the extraordinary effort that traditional groups made, each child has worse overall health/physical stature than the previous), each child's decay progressed more rapidly and more severely than the previous, to the point that my 4th child had lost his front top four teeth down to the gumline, and ALL his molars were (and are to this day) deeply grooved.

    When they were 8, 5, & 2, we switched from skim to whole raw milk, and got rid of dry cereal. Their cavities stopped IMMEDIATELY. Two of them had abscesses that had bothered them a little bit (not much), and those stopped hurting, forever, right then. Those abscesses stayed in their gums, safely and painlessly draining, for the next few years till the affected teeth fell out.
    All their baby teeth were replaced by beautiful, strong adult teeth. There have been no cavities in these once cavity-ridden children in five years.
    (This despite removing all fluoride from our toothpaste & water & check-ups, no more x-rays, and increasingly rare toothpaste. I almost never brush my teeth anymore, NO CAVITIES, and NO halitosis - the latter stopped when I stopped the sugar fest.)

    The fourth child wasn't quite as fortunate - he was still nursing from a sugar-addicted mother. I was trying to eat nutrient-dense, but too often binged and then skipped meals to make up for the calorie intake. When I realized that *my* diet was rapidly eroding what little of his teeth were left, I finally decided to stop the meal-skipping ... and the increased nutrient intake starting eroding the bingeing, surprise! The result of dramatically less sugar and thus, dramatically more nutrients, was that his teeth stabilized, and as he weaned, he has, despite a disgusting mouth full of half-eroded or fully-eroded teeth, not had a single new or progressed cavity in almost three years.

    By the way, if you dig, you can find an interesting article from a mainstream British publication testifying that filling baby teeth does nothing to prevent pain or worsening infection or permanent damage, and says that dentists & parents should really take this into account when dealing with them. Basically, unless the tooth is causing pain that won't go away, fillings do nothing. Caps are purely cosmetic. Etc. (It was from July of 2008 or 2009, IIRC.) (Even if the tooth is causing pain, you can solve that with vitamin C megadosing, good info on how to know when things are going too far (extremely rare if you know how to megadose right), solid diet, & nerves of steel.)
  3. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    BTW, I'm sure you're wondering about #5, lol. I quit near-daily bingeing 3 months before her conception. (It took another few years to get every last binge out, as you well know.) So by the time she hit 18mo, she had a lot of good nutrition coming from breastmilk. We did see a tiny line form on one of the susceptible teeth (which now makes sense, as I found I have severe fat malabsorption from wheat damage to my gut villi, and so I must always be right on the edge of "not enough A/D/K2) after she decided she didn't like the variety of fermented cod liver oil we were using, and I promptly ordered a ton of the chocolate BO/fCLO combo gel she loves and BAM the line stopped.

    We ran out of it and she started using the regular stuff last month. And then stopped. And the lines progressed across the top front four while the most susceptible (always seems to be the one on her right) started eroding. Got more BO/fCLO. All stopped again.

    She is over 24mo now, ,and I expect the danger zone to be past soon. Her teeth are better than #4 or #3 or #2 by far, and maybe a little worse than #1 child's were at this age, so we have reversed the "more children = more degradation" trend in the cavity arena by superb nutrition. (Not soon enough to save her alignment, I'm afraid. She has the worst recessed chin & narrowest arch of all. :( :( I would have had to change my diet a lot sooner to spare her that.)
  4. Ooooh, Thanks for sharing this! It's inspired me to start making him take the BO/FCLO. I was unable to breastfeed, so he was a formula baby - and I am afraid of what's gonna happen!

    Fingers crossed, he's 6 now and no cavities. He had two bottom center teeth come out at right when he turned 5. They did do a fluoride treatment already but we are gonna put a stop to that. I'm kinda done with the regular visits for anything!
  5. LinD

    LinD New Member

    Super post!

    Sprint Samsung Epic
  6. Jack Kruse

    Jack Kruse Administrator

    not all sealants have BPA.......just sayin
  7. MJ*

    MJ* New Member

    I'll have to ask what's in the sealants my kids have, but I have to say they are 17 and 15 years old and neither one has ever had a cavity. My son said to me on their last visit a few months ago, "Mom I don't really even know what a dentist does!" I was so happy to hear that LOL! I had tons of cavities as a kid. I've never let them have any type of sucking candy - that's the worst for cavities, but I do think the sealants have done their job.

    Also awesome job of turning the decay around for your kids!!! Some great advice!
  8. ColdBren

    ColdBren New Member

    Very interesting stuff. I think I will go ahead with the sealants for my 7 year old, but the dentist also wants to fill a "very small" cavity on her baby tooth. This is her first cavity, and I am leaning towards leaving it alone....maybe even trying to remineralize it with calcium and magnesium? You want to make the right decisions for your babies when it comes to the dentist, its such a traumatic experience in the first place, I want to avoid anything unnecessary, or worse, harmful. Everything I knew about cavities is wrong and I am amazed at all this new info.
  9. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    Don't be afraid to do the research on sealants first. There is NO rush. Does he even have permanent molars yet? If the dentist is pushing sealants for baby teeth, RUN!!!!

    I wouldn't touch the cavity, ESPECIALLY if there is no pain. Not a chance. I'd definitely use it as a warning that more are to come, and something needs to change. And that's not likely the hygiene. (Keep in mind that another dentist, equally as modern & conventional, may say there is no cavity at all. Dentists disagree with each other a LOT.) You want to put a stop to this before it starts hitting the permanent teeth.

    Dentistry is fear-based, just like the rest of modern medicine. Do your research on sealants first. Ask yourself about human history, and what makes sense. Of course, your child's diet matters tremendously, but even if it's not perfect (whose is?), fCLO & pastured dairy fat & pastured egg yolks &/or grassfed liver &/or wild-caught fish roe can make up for a LOT.

    You have to have the fat soluble vitamins to use the Ca & Mg, or they will be useless.

    I am kind of blessed in a way to have gone through all this, because had it not been for having to take my oldest children repeatedly to the dentist for extremely traumatizing procedures multiple times before they were three years old, I don't know if I ever would have questioned anything. And they would have never learned, and would have gone down the road of having lost most of their teeth by 60 or 70 like today's adults have (they call them "root canals" and "bridges" and "crowns" but if it weren't for modern prosthetic dentistry, they would have big open spaces where those teeth used to be). Heck, my grandmother had a full set of dentures at 38, in the 1970s!
  10. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest


    I love this topic... up until last year I never had a cavity in my 39yrs of life! got my 1st one - while nursing DS - 100% believe it was due to insufficient nutrient intake - particularly vitamin A, and K2. I did get that filled; and began supplementing the kids w/Vit D3, K2, and most recently Vitamin A in the form of FCLO, and offal! So far so good w/the kids and their teeth...

    I did notice w/the supplementation of the K2, my tarter reduced significantly btwn last June and this past November... we'll see how things look in a couple of weeks when I go back... - of course I'll be avoiding the dental xrays as well!
  11. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    My tartar seems to be very tied in with K2! Chunks come off when I'm replete, and when I go dairy-free and forget to up the liver, it piles on again.
  12. MJ*

    MJ* New Member

  13. MJ*

    MJ* New Member

    How much K2 are you taking, and do your kids take K2 supplements?
  14. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    I love your signatures. :)
  15. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest

    I take 60mg of VRP K2. the kids get 1 drop each of thorne K2, w/a drop of 1000mg of VitD3 in their juice/water (dcp requires juice as a drink by VA law - so we send a 10/90 mix of water/juice w/them and I put their vitamins in that)

    we've just started the FCLO/BO from Green pastures
  16. MamaGrok

    MamaGrok New Member

    They get 1/4tsp liquid fCLO daily, plus raw whole milk & lots of butter. The toddler gets more (since she's still in the age range where mine have had the worst cavities), and hers is the chocolate fCLO/BO gel combo.

    I am off dairy, so I do 1/2tsp fCLO + an ounce or two or raw liver every day.
  17. BeingVenus

    BeingVenus New Member

    Spot on mama grok. I unfortunately was born with a small jaw but my

    Mother breastfed all of us for over a year, and because my parents were big foodies/gourmets we always had beautiful raw artisan cheeses around the house, organic meats, eggs, whole

    Milk, organ meats and my sisters and I all would fight over who got the organs from the roasted chicken. (my dad would fry the giblets and l livers up in butter for us and we'd

    Share.) I ate a TON of crawfish and oysters as a toddler living in New Orleans (yes... Raw and I sucked the heads of the crawfish.). Anyway none of my 2 siblings and I have ever had a cavity and we ate lots of "whole grains." I had a couple funky areas of decay after 6 months of nursing but they've since disappeared. I did get fat after I moved from my parents house but it was because I bought cheap food.

    This is n=1 but I think raw dairy and shellfish are where it's at with cavity prevention. I had horrid oral hygiene habits as a kid... Seriously. Maybe my

    Sealants helped a bit but I had plenty of friends with sealants who got cavities and I also had bulimia as a teenager so I should've had all sorts of problems with my teeth.
  18. nonchalant

    nonchalant Silver

    I haven't thought about it, but DH's teeth seem to be settling down. He has reduced the amount of bread he eats, and he seldom drinks any hfcs sodas now. Eliminating sugar would be great, but I'll take any positive change in his diet. :) He doesn't take supplements, but the pastured dairy and eggs from our backyard must also be helping.

    I haven't heard him complain about his teeth for a few months now. Cool!
  19. MJ*

    MJ* New Member

    Great thanks, and it's so funny with 8 kids to feed that's the way my father made the oj 10/90!! ;)
  20. Shijin13

    Shijin13 Guest


    you've got to try US Wellness Meats LIVERWURST - To DIE FOR! I open a package and its gone w/in 3days btwn me and the kids!

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